Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Options
1…7071737576…108

Comments

  • Options
    #2162
    patmac
    Registered Users Posts: 7,575 ✭✭✭patmac


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

    To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

    I think the FG party leadership needs educating.


  • Options
    #2163
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

    To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

    Tax payers should demand a full refund for the money Leo spent on his spin merchants - FG PR qualities are absolutely woeful.


  • Options
    #2164
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    Edgware wrote: »
    Aren't they the Party that wanted to take History off the Curriculum?

    That was a consequence of the structuring of the new JC by the NCCA. To be fair the current Minister, McHugh I think, restored it as a key subject. After Quinn of Labour and the other Bruton pushed the thing forward.

    Two problems though: the professionals who created the new JC set up a system that led to history being downgraded in practice. Like the balls up that is the HSE the trick is to outsource your agenda to a body you control through other means, set up the rules and then that body delegates to a lower tier of management who have no choice but to go in the only available direction. That tier carries the can. Cynical, dishonest and typical of the political class.

    The next problem is who decides the history curriculum? Academics of course. And the attitude of some in academia to ordinary Irish people has been revealed this week. It is despicable and their attitude of quasi unionism became very clear. And then of course Flanagan tries to hang the Advisory committee of DoC out to dry when his HARP inspired hijacking of state commemoration is rumbled.

    There’s a great wisdom in limiting state involvement: they should be solving the housing and the health services, funding Defence properly and seizing the opportunities of Brexit.


  • Options
    #2165
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Edgware wrote: »
    Aren't they the Party that wanted to take History off the Curriculum?

    Not true they wanted to make history optional at junior cert.

    https://www.finegael.ie/mchugh-calls-for-review-on-history-as-an-optional-subject/

    FG were also the party that signed in the ROI act 1948 those 'pro-treaty' lads managed to create a Republic after all.

    If history ever does become an optional subject at JC level those who pick history can learn the above fact.

    Not to mention how Cumann na nGaedheal stopped the country from falling to bits under Cosgrave when the Free State was founded.
    Meanwhile Dev was fluting about - deciding to create a new party and then deciding that the oath to the king was merely 'an empty formality' after all!
    Took Dev a while to get his act together and decide what he wanted, it only took a civil war to wake him up a bit.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2166
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

    To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

    She is correct the bigotry and narrow mindedness, is self evident from this thread.
    I believe phrases like 'quasi unionism', 'tanspawn', 'scum' are just some of the wonderful phrases used on this thread.
    Enlightened stuff altogether. Interesting use of the former colonial masters language in fairness.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2167
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    She is correct the bigotry and narrow mindedness, is self evident from this thread.
    I believe phrases like 'quasi unionism' and 'tanspawn' are just some of the wonderful phrases used on this thread.

    That is people's opinions of the events...like your own opinion, they are entitled to them.

    What Kate was lamenting was that other people's understanding of what happened didn't ignore what she was prepared to ignore and that they 'required education' to think like her. (like the fact that the Black and tans were somehow separate from the RIC, thus had nothing to do with them) Pure arrogance.


  • Options
    #2168
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That is people's opinions of the events...like your own opinion, they are entitled to them.

    What Kate was lamenting was that other people's understanding of what happened didn't ignore what she was prepared to ignore and that they 'required education' to think like her. (like the fact that the Black and tans were somehow separate from the RIC, thus had nothing to do with them) Pure arrogance.

    Think about it though the RIC was founded in 1836 - when the term black an tans came into usage by 1920ish. It was only the RIC in name only, the uniform changed etc. Hence the name. Lloyd George wanted the military in so he tried to pretend that they were not.
    Most were taken from England. Scotland Wales. Prior to that there were many ordinary Irishmen as members of the RIC.
    Completely different in character and make up.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2169
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Think about it though the RIC was founded in 1836 - when the term black an tans came into usage by 1920ish. It was only the RIC in name only, the uniform changed etc. Hence the name. Lloyd George wanted the military in so he tried to pretend that they were not.
    Most were taken from England. Scotland Wales. Prior to that there were many ordinary Irishmen as members of the RIC.
    Completely different in character and make up.

    The RIC was founded in 1822, when you can't even get the foundation date correct its fair to assume what else you claim is open to suspicion. Also Winston Churchill is credited with the plan to raise the recruitment in the UK for the RIC. A special sort of bigot and racist was the same Churchill.


  • Options
    #2170
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    The RIC was founded in 1822, when you can't even get the foundation date correct its fair to assume what else you claim is open to suspicion. Also Winston Churchill is credited with the plan to raise the recruitment in the UK for the RIC. A special sort of bigot and racist was the same Churchill.

    Semantics, it was organised in it's permanent form in 1836.

    https://www.historyireland.com/the-famine/the-irish-constabulary-in-the-great-famine/

    It is amusing to me that you can nitpick on that, but yet equate all of the RIC as 'the tans'

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2171
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Semantics, it was organised in it's permanent form in 1836.

    https://www.historyireland.com/the-famine/the-irish-constabulary-in-the-great-famine/

    It is amusing to me that you can nitpick on that, but yet equate all of the RIC as 'the tans'

    Yeah nit picking

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2172
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    T A special sort of bigot and racist was the same Churchill.

    Agreed on Churchill that was proven time and again with him and not just with Ireland. Had a grudging respect for DeValera though.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2173
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Think about it though the RIC was founded in 1836 - when the term black an tans came into usage by 1920ish. It was only the RIC in name only, the uniform changed etc. Hence the name. Lloyd George wanted the military in so he tried to pretend that they were not.
    Most were taken from England. Scotland Wales. Prior to that there were many ordinary Irishmen as members of the RIC.
    Completely different in character and make up.

    You have failed to convince here...failed utterly. Perhaps you should ring Charlie Flanagan and try and convince him that they weren't one and the same. Because he was clearly asking us to ignore that part of the RIC/Black and Tan history too like the bould Kate.


    There were those in the RIC who committed atrocities. The horrific record of the Black and Tans and Auxiliaries is well known. But there were thousands of other officers who behaved with dignity and honour in serving their communities. And we should not seek to airbrush these people from our history.
    http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR20000006

    He got his answer loud and clear, the public are NOT prepared to ignore it.

    What FG require is not an education programme for us 'plebs' but a brainwashing programme because that is the only thing that is gonna work.


  • Options
    #2174
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That is people's opinions of the events...like your own opinion, they are entitled to them.

    What Kate was lamenting was that other people's understanding of what happened didn't ignore what she was prepared to ignore and that they 'required education' to think like her. (like the fact that the Black and tans were somehow separate from the RIC, thus had nothing to do with them) Pure arrogance.

    Like most educated fools, she's right and everyone else is wrong.


  • Options
    #2175
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    When one is dealing with history detail and fact are important.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Irish_Constabulary.


  • Options
    #2176
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Kate O'Connell FG digging the arrogance hole a bit deeper there on Sean O'Rourke.

    To paraphrase: What people need is an education, apparently.

    They have such a disdain for the people of this country that they do not even hide it any more. Rats.


  • Options
    #2177
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Yeah nit picking

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

    From the wiki article you linked - Recruitment began in Great Britain in January 1920

    As I said it is from then on that the character of the RIC changed uniform changed etc. Colloquial name changed etc.
    Which is the point I am making.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2178
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    This was a spectacular own goal by Fine gael. Even if you were of a mind to accept that the RIC were just the police force of the time carrying out civic duty, why then do they need to be commemorated. By that thinking they were simply civil servants.

    A few weeks ago the DUP had Leo marked as devious republican trying to get a UI by stealth.

    I'm all for moving forward as a country in a mature way, but this is not required to do so.


  • Options
    #2179
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Like most educated fools, she's right and everyone else is wrong.

    It is curious how FG seems to attract an abundance of individuals with a superiority complex .


  • Options
    #2180
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    They have such a disdain for the people of this country that they do not even hide it any more. Rats.

    No what they are trying to do is trying to make people like you move forward in thier mindset. If they had disdain for you they would not bother even trying.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2181
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It is curious how FG seems to attract an abundance of individuals with a superiority complex .

    Indeed, myself included. It is still quite breathtaking to see a genuine idiot trying to explain how we Unbellyfeel Ingsoc on national media, thought. :pac::pac::pac:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2182
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    From the wiki article you linked - Recruitment began in Great Britain in January 1920

    As I said it is from then on that the character of the RIC changed uniform changed etc. Colloquial name changed etc.
    Which is the point I am making.

    A famous quote from literature, 'A Rose by any other name is still a Rose'.


  • Options
    #2183
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    No what they are trying to do is trying to make people like you move forward in thier mindset. If they had disdain for you they would not bother even trying.

    No, they are trying to assert that tolerance and progressiveness lies only in agreeing with them, and anyone who doesn't is a knuckle-dragging troglodyte who should be forever cast out and deemed "unclean". There was a lot of that in the old days.


  • Options
    #2184
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,404 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Indeed, myself included. It is still quite breathtaking to see a genuine idiot trying to explain how we Unbellyfeel Ingsoc on national media, thought. :pac::pac::pac:

    did you just have a stroke? :confused:


  • Options
    #2185
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    lawred2 wrote: »
    did you just have a stroke? :confused:

    That's his Tarzan impression! :)


  • Options
    #2186
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    lawred2 wrote: »
    did you just have a stroke? :confused:

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oldthinker


  • Options
    #2187
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It is curious how FG seems to attract an abundance of individuals with a superiority complex .

    Like in a lot of companies, never underestimate the culture that exists amongst an organisation. A person might run for election for all the right reasons but their core beliefs, values, attitudes and behaviors can be molded within the group they are operating in if they are not aware. This all conforms to create a similar culture.

    FG's arrogance culture is absolutely rotten and they have a very sickening and transparent superiority complex.


  • Options
    #2188
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It is curious how FG seems to attract an abundance of individuals with a superiority complex .

    There are people like that from every party -

    Michael O'Leary (ex Labour leader)
    De Valera Fianna Fail
    Maria Bailey - Fine Gael
    Gerry Adams - Sinn Fein

    etc etc

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #2189
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There are people like that from every party -

    Michael O'Leary (ex Labour leader)
    De Valera Fianna Fail
    Maria Bailey - Fine Gael
    Gerry Adams - Sinn Fein

    etc etc
    It wasn't any of the above suggesting people need to be educated though, it was a FG TD making that assertion.


  • Options
    #2190
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There are people like that from every party -

    Michael O'Leary (ex Labour leader)
    De Valera Fianna Fail
    Maria Bailey - Fine Gael
    Gerry Adams - Sinn Fein

    etc etc

    Do you remember Ray Burke? Jaysis, the arrogance radiated off that man in almost visible waves. :pac:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2191
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,839 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    jimgoose wrote: »
    No, they are trying to assert that tolerance and progressiveness lies only in agreeing with them, and anyone who doesn't is a knuckle-dragging troglodyte who should be forever cast out and deemed "unclean". There was a lot of that in the old days.

    There is still a lot of the 'knuckle-dragging troglodytes' who pretend to be republicans though. The type that Sinn Fein have to keep happy to get elected while also trying to appear softer, and get the middle class vote.

    There is still a heavy bang of it this thread - 'tanspawn' comments etc.
    Admittedly interspersed with some fair comment from others.
    Difficult thing to move on from.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



Advertisement