RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 4:02pm

corner of hells wrote: »

Jesus ,I think he was investigated by the Moriarty tribunal too , but I think he cleared his debts raising money by selling off personal assets.
Haughey just didn't give a bollix and never addressed his debts.

If I'm ever arrested, I'll be asking for a tribunal.

Found the article he got 200,000 pounds wrote off.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fitzgerald-confirms-bank-wrote-off-200000-bad-debt-26160282.html

Anyway interesting side conversation but i' m dropping it now as it's seriously off topic.

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 4:05pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Coveney? He was a bit busy through all the shennanigans. Did you see the presser last night outside Stormont, both he and Smith looked like they literally hadn't slept for a week.
I don't think I ever seen two politicians look so wrecked. Worth searching it out.

I don't particularly like Coveney but I do respect him, he has substance about him. Leo is a vaceous fool whose only interest is in his own public persona. As a friend of mine used to say 'if he were chocolate he'd lick himself'.

ChikiChiki · 10-01-2020 4:08pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't particularly like Coveney but I do respect him, he has substance about him. Leo is a vaceous fool whose only interest is in his own public persona. As a friend of mine used to say 'if he were chocolate he'd lick himself'.

The one stain he has on him is his closeness to Peter Sutherland. Apart from that, I agree with you on the substance. Coveney seems to prefer to stay out of the limelight. Leo is addicted to it.

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2020 4:14pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The one stain he has on him is his closeness to Peter Sutherland. Apart from that, I agree with you on the substance. Coveney seems to prefer to stay out of the limelight. Leo is addicted to it.

A poor man falls off a trolley and breaks his neck, Leo gets himself splashed all over the headlines like this

You'd have to wonder who his advisors are.

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 4:15pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't particularly like Coveney but I do respect him, he has substance about him. Leo is a vaceous fool whose only interest is in his own public persona. As a friend of mine used to say 'if he were chocolate he'd lick himself'.

Well for a fella who loves himself so much he is working hard to sort out those stubborn heads on either side in Stormont.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-believes-there-is-real-chance-northern-ireland-assembly-could-be-back-today-38849503.html

It all comes back to mutal respect - understanding history and moving on.
Irish 'southerners' expect the NI people to move on after the troubles which only ended a few decades ago.

Yet if there is any attempt to move things on in the South there is uproar - as proven by the the reaction to the DMP/RIC planned commemoration.
Yet people are stuck into stories that happened 100 years ago or more!

I find it a bit hypocritical - and SF have to behave like two different parties both North and South.

Odhinn · 10-01-2020 4:16pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Coveney? He was a bit busy through all the shennanigans. Did you see the presser last night outside Stormont, both he and Smith looked like they literally hadn't slept for a week.
I don't think I ever seen two politicians look so wrecked. Worth searching it out.

5 minutes with "smiler" dodds will do that to ye.

Dyr · 10-01-2020 4:17pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well for a fella who loves himself so much he is working hard to sort out those stubborn heads on either side in Stormont.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-believes-there-is-real-chance-northern-ireland-assembly-could-be-back-today-38849503.html

It all comes back to mutal respect - understanding history and moving on.
Irish 'southerners' expect the NI people to move on after the troubles which only ended a few decades ago.

Yet if there is any attempt to move things on in the South there is uproar - as proven by the the reaction to the DMP/RIC planned commemoration.
Yet people are stuck into stories that happened 100 years ago or more!

I find it a bit hypocritical - and SF have to behave like two different parties both North and South.

I'm never going to expect Unionists to commemorate the Provos. Or Nationalists to commemorate the British Army

And if you do, you're fundamentally disingenous.

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 4:18pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A poor man falls off a trolley and breaks his neck, Leo gets himself splashed all over the headlines like this

You'd have to wonder who his advisors are.

He was probably asked the question and the paper picked up the quote.

If he said 'no comment' how do you think that would have been spun?
Also the image used in the article is from 2018.

All he really said was that they were a nice couple when he met them and can understand why they are withdrawing from public life. It is clear his comments were to play to the British media in light of Brexit etc.

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2020 4:19pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well for a fella who loves himself so much he is working hard to sort out those stubborn heads on either side in Stormont.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-believes-there-is-real-chance-northern-ireland-assembly-could-be-back-today-38849503.html

It all comes back to mutal respect - understanding history and moving on.
Irish 'southerners' expect the NI people to move on after the troubles which only ended a few decades ago.

Yet if there is any attempt to move things on in the South there is uproar - as proven by the the reaction to the DMP/RIC planned commemoration.
Yet people are stuck into stories that happened 100 years ago or more!

I find it a bit hypocritical - and SF have to behave like two different parties both North and South.

You do realise that a British soldier was sent for trial this week for the murder of a civilian, he is the second one within a year. Both after long painful campaigns for justice by the families?

This stuff in this country is still very real.

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 4:21pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well for a fella who loves himself so much he is working hard to sort out those stubborn heads on either side in Stormont.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-believes-there-is-real-chance-northern-ireland-assembly-could-be-back-today-38849503.html

It all comes back to mutal respect - understanding history and moving on.
Irish 'southerners' expect the NI people to move on after the troubles which only ended a few decades ago.

Yet if there is any attempt to move things on in the South there is uproar - as proven by the the reaction to the DMP/RIC planned commemoration.
Yet people are stuck into stories that happened 100 years ago or more!

I find it a bit hypocritical - and SF have to behave like two different parties both North and South.

Isn't in Coveney who is taking the lead in trying to restore the executive? Of course I know Leo will take the credit 'if' it comes to pass.
Move things on in the south? Seriously stop with your bull****, people in the south have moved on most just don't feel the need to have a state comemoration to honour an organisation that was the jackboot of a colonial power.
I'd have more respect for your comments if you stopped spouting the same tried crap you have been spouting since you stumbled into this thread.

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2020 4:22pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

He was probably asked the question and the paper picked up the quote.

If he said 'no comment' how do you think that would have been spun?
Also the image used in the article is from 2018.

All he really said was that they were a nice couple when he met them and can understand why they are withdrawing from public life. It is clear his comments were to play to the British media in light of Brexit etc.

Whatever about how the comment got on to the front page, the fact that he isn't being advised to get out in front of the bad stuff is unbelievable. Incompetent at best, unfeeling and aloof at worst.

jimgoose · 10-01-2020 4:23pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

...Irish 'southerners' expect the NI people to move on after the troubles which only ended a few decades ago.

Yet if there is any attempt to move things on in the South there is uproar - as proven by the the reaction to the DMP/RIC planned commemoration...

To be perfectly straight with you Chief, I would expect most Northern Ireland Unionists to look on with their mouths hanging open, flabbergasted, at any official commemoration of the RIC here.

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 4:32pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You do realise that a British soldier was sent for trial this week for the murder of a civilian, he is the second one within a year. Both after long painful campaigns for justice by the families?

This stuff in this country is still very real.

I know yeah - but McGuinness and Paisley could work well together despite years of hatred. Yet down here there is whinging and whining over a commemoration.

The 26 counties are hypocrites in my view -

1) Regarding thier stance to the IRA
2) Failure of the Irish language in the majority of the island
3) Failure to move on in history

When McGuinness met Collin Parry the father of the young lad killed in the Warrington bombing he said -

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/i-could-never-forgive-mcguinness-says-father-of-warrington-bomb-victim-782592.html

"Regrettably the past cannot be changed or undone. Neither can the suffering, the hurt or the violence of the conflict be disowned by Republicans or any other party to the conflict."

(which is relevant to this decade of centenaries).

Also it is interesting that although Parry said he would never forgive McGuinness/IRA but he said he found him a sincere man.
Parry also became a committed peace activist.

So a fella like Colin Parry was willing to do that basically meet the fella who was in charge of the organisation who murdered his young lad - surely to god these 26 counties can show some resolve and have a commemoration for the RIC?

Zebra3 · 10-01-2020 4:37pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Leo also knows how to play the media game

You reckon?

Wait 'til you see the mess he got himself in to over trying to commemorate the RIC.

McMurphy · 10-01-2020 4:39pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fairness to Leo (who is getting a fair amount of stick) he did have the guts to wear an Irish 'Shamrock Poppy' in the Dail over two years ago.
So he is not afraid of Irish history and confronting an old narrative and mindset.

https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-poppy-shamrock-3684354-Nov2017/

What other politician in the D would have the balls to do that?

He also got praised by the Unionists

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8uhCe8dEG_kJ:https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/unionists-praise-taoiseach-for-shamrock-poppy-36303437.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

So it is clear that at least he leads by example.
No other TD commented on it at the time.

Frank "elbows" Feighan?

BBC News - Irish politician Frank Feighan wears poppy in Dail
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20208933

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 4:40pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whatever about how the comment got on to the front page, the fact that he isn't being advised to get out in front of the bad stuff is unbelievable. Incompetent at best, unfeeling and aloof at worst.

That is a bit over dramatic he was referring to them as people - people who want to get on with thier lives as a family as simple as that.

They just happen to be soon be ex senior royals.
Is he supposed to say if they had any sense they would resign as royals completely?

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 4:42pm

jimgoose wrote: »

To be perfectly straight with you Chief, I would expect most Northern Ireland Unionists to look on with their mouths hanging open, flabbergasted, at any official commemoration of the RIC here.

I think that is good thing if they opened thier mouths they might start talking again.
Even the thought of doing it is almost gesture enough in itself - but the sentiment has been sullied by the reaction down here.

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 4:43pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know yeah - but McGuinness and Paisley could work well together despite years of hatred. Yet down here there is whinging and whining over a commemoration.

The 26 counties are hypocrites in my view -

1) Regarding thier stance to the IRA
2) Failure of the Irish language in the majority of the island
3) Failure to move on in history

When McGuinness met Collin Parry the father of the young lad killed in the Warrington bombing he said -

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/i-could-never-forgive-mcguinness-says-father-of-warrington-bomb-victim-782592.html

"Regrettably the past cannot be changed or undone. Neither can the suffering, the hurt or the violence of the conflict be disowned by Republicans or any other party to the conflict."

(which is relevant to this decade of centenaries).

Also it is interesting that although Parry said he would never forgive McGuinness/IRA but he said he found him a sincere man.
Parry also became a committed peace activist.

So a fella like Colin Parry was willing to do that basically meet the fella who was in charge of the organisation who murdered his young lad - surely to god these 26 counties can show some resolve and have a commemoration for the RIC?

Why do you think the people of this country should comemerate an organisation that murdered and brutalized the population on behalf of a colonial power.
Has the six counties officially comemorated the organisations that murdered and brutalized its people? Was there ceremonies for the IRA/UVF/INLA etc.
Yet you want a ceremony to comemorate an organisation that inflicted terrorism on a civilian population, can you justify that wish of yours?

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 4:45pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Frank "elbows" Feighan?

BBC News - Irish politician Frank Feighan wears poppy in Dail
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20208933

Charlie Tanagan ( couldn't resist) lost his **** when a TD wore an Easter lily pin into the Dail.

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2020 4:48pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know yeah - but McGuinness and Paisley could work well together despite years of hatred. Yet down here there is whinging and whining over a commemoration.

The 26 counties are hypocrites in my view -

1) Regarding thier stance to the IRA
2) Failure of the Irish language in the majority of the island
3) Failure to move on in history

When McGuinness met Collin Parry the father of the young lad killed in the Warrington bombing he said -

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/i-could-never-forgive-mcguinness-says-father-of-warrington-bomb-victim-782592.html

"Regrettably the past cannot be changed or undone. Neither can the suffering, the hurt or the violence of the conflict be disowned by Republicans or any other party to the conflict."

(which is relevant to this decade of centenaries).

Also it is interesting that although Parry said he would never forgive McGuinness/IRA but he said he found him a sincere man.
Parry also became a committed peace activist.

So a fella like Colin Parry was willing to do that basically meet the fella who was in charge of the organisation who murdered his young lad - surely to god these 26 counties can show some resolve and have a commemoration for the RIC?

You cannot 'move on in history' all you can do is make sure the facts of history are kept true.
If somebody tries to sanitise or alter them, call them out on it.

Nobody has an issue here with commemorations for the RIC/DMP, they are commemorated every year for year.

Nobody had an issue with them being included in this phase of the centenary events.

What people had an issue with was being the only country in the world to commemorate the forces of their oppressors.

You STILL haven't show us another country that would do that or indeed, is under any pressure to do that. By allowing commemorations to take place without impediment for years and by including them in the centenary events we have gone further than most and are up there with the most tolerant countries on the planet.

AGAIN if we aren't, please show where does this better.

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 4:48pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why do you think the people of this country should comemerate an organisation that murdered and brutalized the population on behalf of a colonial power.
Has the six counties officially comemorated the organisations that murdered and brutalized its people? Was there ceremonies for the IRA/UVF/INLA etc.
Yet you want a ceremony to comemorate an organisation that inflicted terrorism on a civilian population, can you justify that wish of yours?

Patently not true recent SF mayors of Belfast now regularly attend an armistice ceremony - unthinkable a few years ago

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-joins-british-legion-to-pay-tribute-as-belfast-marks-armistice-963099.html

Odhinn · 10-01-2020 4:53pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Charlie Tanagan ( couldn't resist) lost his **** when a TD wore an Easter lily pin into the Dail.

"Charlie Tanagan" - much like "Shite in the bucket", that's his name now.

He did indeed.

Not that I've much time for the poppy, but a yoke like Emmet Stagg wearing it doesn't do much for its credibility.

Marcos · 10-01-2020 4:56pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fairness to Leo (who is getting a fair amount of stick) he did have the guts to wear an Irish 'Shamrock Poppy' in the Dail over two years ago.
So he is not afraid of Irish history and confronting an old narrative and mindset.

https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-poppy-shamrock-3684354-Nov2017/

What other politician in the Dáil would have the balls to do that?

Ah yes,

that shamrock poppy symbol first seen on loyalist murals in North Belfast.

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2020 4:57pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Patently not true recent SF mayors of Belfast now regularly attend an armistice ceremony - unthinkable a few years ago

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-joins-british-legion-to-pay-tribute-as-belfast-marks-armistice-963099.html

We built and paid for the War Memorial at Islandbridge in the 1940's ffs. :rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 4:57pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Patently not true recent SF mayors of Belfast now regularly attend an armistice ceremony - unthinkable a few years ago

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-joins-british-legion-to-pay-tribute-as-belfast-marks-armistice-963099.html

Are you going to answer a straight question or keep deflecting?
I will ask you once more, why do you feel the people in the south should be the only former colony anywhere in the world that officially comemerates an organisation that terrorised the population on behave of an occupying colonial master. Now if you don't want to answer just say so if however you deploy your usual tactic of deflection I can write you off as a WUM and justifiably place you on the ignore list.

Plumbthedepths · 10-01-2020 5:03pm

Seems Leo can shut his mouth when it's expedient to do so. Maybe some of the money spent on his many media handlers was well spent.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/black-and-tans-controversy-taoiseach-refuses-to-comment-on-ric-event-and-wolfe-tones-chart-topper-38850685.html

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 5:04pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You cannot 'move on in history' all you can do is make sure the facts of history are kept true.
If somebody tries to sanitise or alter them, call them out on it.

Nobody has an issue here with commemorations for the RIC/DMP, they are commemorated every year for year.

Nobody had an issue with them being included in this phase of the centenary events.

What people had an issue with was being the only country in the world to commemorate the forces of their oppressors.

You STILL haven't show us another country that would do that or indeed, is under any pressure to do that. By allowing commemorations to take place without impediment for years and by including them in the centenary events we have gone further than most and are up there with the most tolerant countries on the planet.

AGAIN if we aren't, please show where does this better.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/national-museum-american-indian/2019/11/27/do-american-indians-celebrate-thanksgiving/

Well Indian descendants in the USA are mixed on celebrating thanksgiving (which commemorates the arrival of the american pilgrims - some see it as racist and think of genocide

"Webster, Massachusetts: The fall harvest feast, which we call harvest moon feast, is something our Eastern tribes have done since the beginning of time. Getting together and giving thanks for the harvest, family, and friends is certainly something all should enjoy. The Thanksgiving narrative, however, is problematic on many fronts and can be justifiably referred to as a day of mourning."

while others are more understanding of the day

"Gulfport, Mississippi: If you look at the true reason for Thanksgiving, it was the Natives' having their harvest ceremony and then sharing with the Pilgrims. So for us to say it’s a racist holiday is wrong. Most of the Natives who say that don’t even practice any type of greencorn celebration. The Pilgrims were having a feast, so there were traditional European foods there. That is, till the Natives pitied them and brought the foods only found on this continent that we all now associate with Thanksgiving. We can celebrate the Native side of it, or the part that we gave hospitality to a people who didn’t appreciate it. Either way, it’s ours, not theirs."

--

That commemoration above is done every year - yet now in this 26 counties attempt to commemorate the RIC/DMP once there is uproar.

gormdubhgorm · 10-01-2020 5:07pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you going to answer a straight question or keep deflecting?
I will ask you once more, why do you feel the people in the south should be the only former colony anywhere in the world that officially comemerates an organisation that terrorised the population on behave of an occupying colonial master. Now if you don't want to answer just say so if however you deploy your usual tactic of deflection I can write you off as a WUM and justifiably place you on the ignore list.

I was not deflecting I answered your question a SF lord mayor had no problem commemorating the BA.

I also gave another answer to Francie Brady - about how the descendants of the American Indians treat thanksgiving and there are mixed views on it.

Two sides of the same coin.

corner of hells · 10-01-2020 5:08pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you going to answer a straight question or keep deflecting?
I will ask you once more, why do you feel the people in the south should be the only former colony anywhere in the world that officially comemerates an organisation that terrorised the population on behave of an occupying colonial master. Now if you don't want to answer just say so if however you deploy your usual tactic of deflection I can write you off as a WUM and justifiably place you on the ignore list.

I think South Africa has a memorial to all who lost their lives in the Boer Wars.
Pretty certain, that lad , Lutyens who designed the Islandbridge memorial designed it too.

FrancieBrady · 10-01-2020 5:10pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/national-museum-american-indian/2019/11/27/do-american-indians-celebrate-thanksgiving/

Well Indian descendants in the USA are mixed on celebrating thanksgiving (which commemorates the arrival of the american pilgrims - some see it as racist and think of genocide

"Webster, Massachusetts: The fall harvest feast, which we call harvest moon feast, is something our Eastern tribes have done since the beginning of time. Getting together and giving thanks for the harvest, family, and friends is certainly something all should enjoy. The Thanksgiving narrative, however, is problematic on many fronts and can be justifiably referred to as a day of mourning."

while others are more understanding of the day

"Gulfport, Mississippi: If you look at the true reason for Thanksgiving, it was the Natives' having their harvest ceremony and then sharing with the Pilgrims. So for us to say it’s a racist holiday is wrong. Most of the Natives who say that don’t even practice any type of greencorn celebration. The Pilgrims were having a feast, so there were traditional European foods there. That is, till the Natives pitied them and brought the foods only found on this continent that we all now associate with Thanksgiving. We can celebrate the Native side of it, or the part that we gave hospitality to a people who didn’t appreciate it. Either way, it’s ours, not theirs."

--

That commemoration above is done every year - yet now in this 26 counties attempt to commemorate the RIC/DMP once there is uproar.

What sovereign separate country are American Indians?

The RIC/DMP are COMMEMORATED every year for years without rancour or objection from anybody.

RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

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