RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/national-museum-american-indian/2019/11/27/do-american-indians-celebrate-thanksgiving/


Well Indian descendants in the USA are mixed on celebrating thanksgiving (which commemorates the arrival of the american pilgrims - some see it as racist and think of genocide


"Webster, Massachusetts: The fall harvest feast, which we call harvest moon feast, is something our Eastern tribes have done since the beginning of time. Getting together and giving thanks for the harvest, family, and friends is certainly something all should enjoy. The Thanksgiving narrative, however, is problematic on many fronts and can be justifiably referred to as a day of mourning."


while others are more understanding of the day



"Gulfport, Mississippi: If you look at the true reason for Thanksgiving, it was the Natives' having their harvest ceremony and then sharing with the Pilgrims. So for us to say it’s a racist holiday is wrong. Most of the Natives who say that don’t even practice any type of greencorn celebration. The Pilgrims were having a feast, so there were traditional European foods there. That is, till the Natives pitied them and brought the foods only found on this continent that we all now associate with Thanksgiving. We can celebrate the Native side of it, or the part that we gave hospitality to a people who didn’t appreciate it. Either way, it’s ours, not theirs."

--

That commemoration above is done every year - yet now in this 26 counties attempt to commemorate the RIC/DMP once there is uproar.

So you are suggesting the thanksgiving ceremony celebrating a harvest is no different than comemerating state sponsored terrorism? FFS.

facehugger99

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you going to answer a straight question or keep deflecting?
I will ask you once more, why do you feel the people in the south should be the only former colony anywhere in the world that officially comemerates an organisation that terrorised the population on behave of an occupying colonial master.

Jaysus - talk about having to explain the obvious.

See, there's this place called Nordieland up the road and the lads up there haven't all drank the same Christian Brother's Kool-aid that a lot of the lads down here lapped up back in school about the famine and the 800 years all that stuff.

The lads up there probably need a few assurances that should the prospect of unification ever become more of a reality, that the lads down here would have a bit of respect for their culture and traditions.

But most of the Kool-aid brigade down here are thick as pig****e and don't get that.

Now that lads up there are looking at the lads down here and they're probably thinking 'feck that ****e, the lads down there seem like a right bunch of intolerant dicks'

Does that make it more understandable for you?

KWAG2019

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A poor man falls off a trolley and breaks his neck, Leo gets himself splashed all over the headlines like this



You'd have to wonder who his advisors are.

He feels right at home there.

FrancieBrady

corner of hells wrote: »

I think South Africa has a memorial to all who lost their lives in the Boer Wars.
Pretty certain, that lad , Lutyens who designed the Islandbridge memorial designed it too.

So that is us on a par there. We built the Islandbridge monument.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was not deflecting I answered your question a SF lord mayor had no problem commemorating the BA.

I also gave another answer to Francie Brady - about how the descendants of the American Indians treat thanksgiving and there are mixed views on it.

Two sides of the same coin.

You didn't answer my question you engaged in a tactic you have used throughout this thread.
However your deflection shows you cannot answer the question posed of you. You know no other former colony has comemorated the organisations that were employed by its former occupiers to murder and brutalise it's people.
The good thing in all this is ordinary decent people refused to allow the arrogant pr**ks in FG behave without impunity. All we see here is FG supporters showing their true contempt for their fellow citizen, a contempt which they mostly hide but the mask slips occasionally as it has spectacularly done this time.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Does that make it more understandable for you?

No.

But we certainly understand your self deprecating need to appease.

corner of hells

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So that is us on a par there. We built the Islandbridge monument.

Any good at chess ?

FrancieBrady

After all this I think Unionists should be more fearful of the likes of Flanagan, Leo, gormdubh, Facehugger etc.

If it is expedient for them they will be demanding that Unionists 'move on' and attend commemorations for the IRA, INLA and Dissidents.

They don't seem to have any lines in the sand at all. If it needs to be done to achieve something else then it should happen, seems to be the moral code.

FrancieBrady

corner of hells wrote: »

Any good at chess ?

?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What sovereign separate country are American Indians?

The RIC/DMP are COMMEMORATED every year for years without rancour or objection from anybody.

So why not commemorate it here too?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you are suggesting the thanksgiving ceremony celebrating a harvest is no different than comemerating state sponsored terrorism? FFS.

If you read the comments for some it is it was genocide and denigration of culture very analogous to some of he hard-line comments on here who are anti the comm. completely.

I found a well written article which summed up these centerary issues nearly a decade ago 2011

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/remembering-and-forgetting-1916-commemoration-and-conflict-in-post-peace-process-ireland/

The bits that were poignancy for me were -

"The permission to narrate about Ireland’s past is not a trouble-free matter.

Those who dig deep into the archive of both documentation and memory soon become aware of the discursive partitions between dominant and marginalised narratives. Political legitimacy, visibility, silence and unfinished business are all constraints placed upon interpretation. Those who dissent from agreed versions of the past are often sidelined and isolated. Consensus, political expediency and ambiguity override scholarship and dictate what history is."

"A good dose of conscious reflection about the causes of conflict might be no bad place to start for communities still troubled by questions of identity and common purpose. If the aspiration to shared history is to succeed -

It must shy away from the discordant binaries produced by the persistent performative cycles dividing nationalist/unionist, North/South, Protestant/Catholic etc. With the right political will, commemoration might be transformed into a stage of rememorising the common ground and debating the larger issues that have been lost in the mutilations of the past."

corner of hells

FrancieBrady wrote: »

?

You've a good answer or point consistently.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So why not commemorate it here too?

They are commemorated here...every year.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So why not commemorate it here too?




If you read the comments for some it is it was genocide and denigration of culture very analogous to some of he hard-line comments on here who are anti the comm. completely.

I found a well written article which summed up these centerary issues nearly a decade ago 2011

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/remembering-and-forgetting-1916-commemoration-and-conflict-in-post-peace-process-ireland/

The bits that were poignancy for me were -

"The permission to narrate about Ireland’s past is not a trouble-free matter. Those who dig deep into the archive of both documentation and memory soon become aware of the discursive partitions between dominant and marginalised narratives. Political legitimacy, visibility, silence and unfinished business are all constraints placed upon interpretation. Those who dissent from agreed versions of the past are often sidelined and isolated. Consensus, political expediency and ambiguity override scholarship and dictate what history is."

"A good dose of conscious reflection about the causes of conflict might be no bad place to start for communities still troubled by questions of identity and common purpose. If the aspiration to shared history is to succeed, it must shy away from the discordant binaries produced by the persistent performative cycles dividing nationalist/unionist, North/South, Protestant/Catholic etc. With the right political will, commemoration might be transformed into a stage of rememorising the common ground and debating the larger issues that have been lost in the mutilations of the past."

Still no answer to my question. Wind up merchant. Bye now on the ignore list.

Plumbthedepths

FrancieBrady wrote: »

After all this I think Unionists should be more fearful of the likes of Flanagan, Leo, gormdubh, Facehugger etc.

If it is expedient for them they will be demanding that Unionists 'move on' and attend commemorations for the IRA, INLA and Dissidents.

They don't seem to have any lines in the sand at all. If it needs to be done to achieve something else then it should happen, seems to be the moral code.

I would question the assumption of a moral code tbh. It's more of a jackboot code.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A poor man falls off a trolley and breaks his neck, Leo gets himself splashed all over the headlines like this



You'd have to wonder who his advisors are.

He's not interested in that death. No online profile building to be had.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well for a fella who loves himself so much he is working hard to sort out those stubborn heads on either side in Stormont.
..

Trying to make off Coveney's work.
Also the SF and DUP parties had a small role :rolleyes:

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

After all this I think Unionists should be more fearful of the likes of Flanagan, Leo, gormdubh, Facehugger etc.

If it is expedient for them they will be demanding that Unionists 'move on' and attend commemorations for the IRA, INLA and Dissidents.

They don't seem to have any lines in the sand at all. If it needs to be done to achieve something else then it should happen, seems to be the moral code.

Hang on a minute those in the 26 counties have been asking those in NI to change the lines in the sand for decades.
If anyone drew a line in the sand and make it permanent it was those in the 26 counties.
A strange mix of thinking of old IRA v Provos etc - while still pretending to be Republican in DE. Those in the 26 counties want it every way the moral high ground, a slanted view of the past (IRA v Provos) and to tell those in NI to power share!

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Trying to make off Coveney's work.
Also the SF and DUP parties had a small role :rolleyes:

The pair of them also a major part in doing nothing for the last two years two stubborn heads on them.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Still no answer to my question. Wind up merchant. Bye now on the ignore list.

Not true the truth is you do not want to accept the answers I gave.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are commemorated here...every year.

Why all the fuss so and amateur dramatics a political game to try and shaft FG before the election?

Plumbthedepths

I posted this before, but am doing so again before I unfollow. This is the organisation posters here and FG wanted officially comemorated by the state.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/padraig-og-o-ruairc/padraig-og-o-ruairc-ric-legacy-burns-a-century-on-974105.html

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why all the fuss so and amateur dramatics a political game to try and shaft FG before the election?

I doubt that was Tan-again's goal.

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I posted this before, but am doing so again before I unfollow. This is the organisation posters here and FG wanted officially comemorated by the state.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/padraig-og-o-ruairc/padraig-og-o-ruairc-ric-legacy-burns-a-century-on-974105.html

Only problem is the article is a myopic old narrative viewpoint- but even that article let slip some truth

While the majority of RIC constables were working-class Irish Catholics, senior ranks within the force were reserved almost exclusively for members of the local Protestant-Unionist ascendency and officers imported from England.

---

Then this changed when they changed uniform and were refereed to as the Tans. - as the constables had to be imported from Britain. The dynamic changed.

Also the here is more info on the historian who wrote the article it is clear where his agenda lies.

https://www.mercierpress.ie/authors/padraigogoruairc/

Firmly sticking old narratives of Irish history.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why all the fuss so and amateur dramatics a political game to try and shaft FG before the election?

Because like every other sane country in the world it is wrong for a 'state' to commemorate groups like this.

You cannot and have not shown us another country that has gone further than us. Yet we are somehow uniquely bad.

James Brown

Telling yis, Blueshirt marches to show how mature we are any day now....

facehugger99

The irony of the lads who bray most loudly for unification being the ones who do the most to prevent it ever happening never fails to amuse.

I'd say Francie does more, with his tired anti-British rhetoric, to keep NI a separate entity than the most committed partionist.

Keep posting.

gormdubhgorm

facehugger99 wrote: »

The irony of the lads who bray most loudly for unification being the ones who do the most to prevent it ever happening never fails to amuse.

I'd say Francie does more, with his tired anti-British rhetoric, to keep NI a separate entity than the most committed partionist.

Keep posting.

I tried to explain this to him but it went over his head.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because like every other sane country in the world it is wrong for a 'state' to commemorate groups like this.

You cannot and have not shown us another country that has gone further than us. Yet we are somehow uniquely bad.

SF mayor armistice ceremony.
South Africa Boer War
Indians thanksgiving in the USA

Have all been mentioned

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/469711.stm

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The irony of the lads who bray most loudly for unification being the ones who do the most to prevent it ever happening never fails to amuse.

I'd say Francie does more, with his tired anti-British rhetoric, to keep NI a separate entity than the most committed partionist.

Keep posting.

I'd rather be called anti-British any day of the week than have to post anti Irish bile to try and get a win TBH.

You'd sell your fellow Irish out as well as Unionists if it was expedient for your personal circumstances.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

SF mayor armistice ceremony.
South Africa Boer War
Indians thanksgiving in the USA

Have all been mentioned

When are you going to show a 'state formally commemorating' one of these groups?

Take your time. We have been waiting a number of days now.