RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

This is a slippery slope. Certain elements running this country want us back in the union and if things like this are allowed to take place then before we know it that’s where we’ll be. We’ve already seen them hire the likes of Harris to run our current police, and these acts will just get bigger and bigger.

Treacherous scum.

Dyr

horsebox1977 wrote: »

Yep.

Frank Feighan and Neale Richmond also looking for Ireland to re-join the Commonwealth.

Charlie Flanagan is one disgusting human being.

Sure Frankie showed an enthusiasm for walloping pensionsers that would have done the RIC proud

jackboy

Del2005 wrote: »

Considering that they where Irish people why shouldn't we commemorate them? Picking the wrong side doesn't make them less Irish and in a war neither party has a moral high ground.

In war sometimes a party absolutely has a moral high ground. All of the worst armies in history contained plenty of good people who joined for well intended reasons. They still joined the wrong side and commemorating them does legitimize the force to some degree.

Millionaire only not

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Next thing Varadkar will want to hold a commeration for the Black and Tans.

The RIC were traitors who threw people out of their homes to starve when they couldn't pay rent.

This is for the Black and Tans they dragged these men to there death behind a lorry
My grandmother got rest her , told us the stories of the Black and Tans and what they did ! Scum
https://republican-news.org/current/news/2016/12/william_shanahan_and_michael_m.html

JP Liz V1

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Next thing Varadkar will want to hold a commeration for the Black and Tans.

The RIC were traitors who threw people out of their homes to starve when they couldn't pay rent.

Is the RIC and DMP, the Black and Tans

careless sherpa

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is the RIC and DMP, the Black and Tans

The black and tans were effectively part of the RIC. Were recruited to support their role. The RIC have a long and brutal history in their own right

dresden8

Larbre34 wrote: »

No they were not. They were demobbed tommies, the psychos off the Somme.

The RIC existed for 110 years, mostly ordinary Irish catholic men who earned a crust to feed their families in hard times. Unfortunately many Irish people had no choice but to earn the Queens shilling under occupation, but these guys had to balance keeping order on the streets with a decade of political rebellion. 500 of them killed and 700 injured when mostly unarmed.

A commemoration of their work in policing over 110 years in existence is not betraying anyone.

The black and tans, or to give them their official name.....

The Royal Irish Constabulary Special Reserve.......

Jog on.

Edit

Not to mention the "auxies", the Auxiliary Division, a counter-insurgency unit of the RIC

The Tetrarch

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

We’ve already seen them hire the likes of Harris to run our current police, and these acts will just get bigger and bigger.
Treacherous scum.

I dislike the phrase "the likes of". It has become prevalent in journalism. Omit needless words.
"Bigger and bigger" is another one.

The Tetrarch

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I dislike the phrase "the likes of". It has become prevalent in journalism. Omit needless words.
"Bigger and bigger" is another one.

I’m not a journalist.

Galwayguy35

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is the RIC and DMP, the Black and Tans

Someone mentioned that the Tans were being included in the commeration, it's bad enough that they would commerate the RIC who took the kings shilling to evict families from their homes and and assist the Tans during their killing spree but to include those murdering bastards is going too far.

saabsaab

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is the RIC and DMP, the Black and Tans

The Black and Tans were called the RIC special reserve and were recruited separately mainly from GB to assist the regular RIC but often operated independently. The Auxies were similar but were even more independent of the RIC and often wore british army uniforms. hey were called temporary Cadets (Officer grade).


So technically yes but in practice no.

dresden8

Larbre34 wrote: »

No they were not. They were demobbed tommies, the psychos off the Somme.

The RIC existed for 110 years, mostly ordinary Irish catholic men who earned a crust to feed their families in hard times. Unfortunately many Irish people had no choice but to earn the Queens shilling under occupation, but these guys had to balance keeping order on the streets with a decade of political rebellion. 500 of them killed and 700 injured when mostly unarmed.

A commemoration of their work in policing over 110 years in existence is not betraying anyone.

Look up the "first" Bloody Sunday.

On August 31st, Sackville Street was packed with strikers and the simply curious who wanted to see if Larkin would indeed defy the order. Suddenly, on a balcony of the Imperial Hotel overlooking the street, a bearded man appeared. It was Larkin in disguise, and when he ripped the beard off and began to speak, the crowd went wild with cheering. No doubt incensed that Larkin had made a fool of them, the Dublin Metropolitan Police quickly arrested him and charged the assembled crowd with batons. Two men were killed and hundreds were injured and taken to hospital. Thus the first “Bloody Sunday’ of Irelands turbulent 20th century entered into history

"Unarmed" DMP charge the crowd, kill two and injure hundreds.

They weren't "unarmed", they eventually got outgunned, and didn't like it at all.......

http://praoh.org/first-bloody-sunday-jim-larkin-dublin-lockout-1913/

Junkyard Tom

saabsaab wrote: »

So technically yes but in practice no.

How do you think people from Britain were able to target individuals and their homes during the War of Independence? Spies, collaborators, no doubt plenty of help from the regular RIC who remained in the force after the 1918 rejection of British rule.

Millionaire only not

saabsaab wrote: »

The Black and Tans were called the RIC special reserve and were recruited separately mainly from GB to assist the regular RIC but often operated independently. The Auxies were similar but were even more independent of the RIC and often wore british army uniforms. hey were called temporary Cadets (Officer grade).




So technically yes but in practice no.

Technically they were the elete of the scum ! Celebrate one ur celebrating them all !
Fine Gael vote gone here too !

saabsaab

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Someone mentioned that the Tans were being included in the commeration, it's bad enough that they would commerate the RIC who took the kings shilling to evict families from their homes and and assist the Tans during their killing spree but to include those murdering bastards is going too far.

Someone was on the RTE this evening saying that they weren't commemorating the 'black and tans' only ordinary RIC police who died! If I get more details I'll post them.

dresden8

saabsaab wrote: »

Someone was on the RTE this evening saying that they weren't commemorating the 'black and tans' only ordinary RIC police who died! If I get more details I'll post them.

They saw what the tans were up to and they were ok with it.

Bastards.

ricero

Varadkar and Fine Gael are spinless.

This is an absolute insult to every irish person who fought and died for irish freedom. At this stage I would take anyone but Fine Gael leading this country.

signostic

From the Examiner
https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/when-the-horror-of-war-hits-homes-226373.html

PS O’Hegarty explained in the first episode of In the Name of the Republic that he became increasingly disenchanted with the IRA’s campaign.

“We glorified ambushes and stunts and jobs and secret executions,” he contended. “We abolished all the ordinary laws of morality and of public decency and of social responsibility.”

Ironically, O’Hegarty’s brother Sewas the brigadier of the Cork No 1 Brigade, “which carried out the greatest number of killings, even women and children were not spared,” according to Prof Eunan O’Halpin.

published in the journal.ie ... and commented on by a poster

“The difference between treason and patriotism is only a matter of dates.” ― Alexandre Dumas

https://www.thejournal.ie/ric-book-2743413-May2016/

1800_Ladladlad

If people would like to sign the petition below that rejects the commemorations, please do.

https://www.change.org/p/fine-gael-don-t-commemorate-the-black-and-tans

bb12

my great grandmother who was a widow with 6 young children was terrorised in her own home over a full night by the RIC because there were rumours she had hidden someone involved in the rebellion...only for a very heavy wooden door and bars on the windows nobody could get in but the bullet marks in the door and house walls were still there to see when i was a child.

I attended school in Balbriggan and we were well taught what the black and tans did to that town. I remember the teachers bringing all the classes on a tour around the town to explain the attrocities which occured there.

absolute shame on Fine Gael and Leo for promoting an event such as this. It's mind blowing how anyone would consider this a good idea. There are sticking their fingers in wounds which are still open.

Odhinn

saabsaab wrote: »

Someone was on the RTE this evening saying that they weren't commemorating the 'black and tans' only ordinary RIC police who died! If I get more details I'll post them.

...and they get a free pass because...?

saabsaab

saabsaab wrote: »

Someone was on the RTE this evening saying that they weren't commemorating the 'black and tans' only ordinary RIC police who died! If I get more details I'll post them.

A professor of History at UCD was the source just on RTE news.

saabsaab

Odhinn wrote: »

...and they get a free pass because...?

They had joined when this was a regular police force and many helped or did not really fight the rebels. Others were trapped in their job -I 'm sure this is common enough elsewhere- caught between a rock and a hard place.

the_syco

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Technically they were the elete of the scum ! Celebrate one ur celebrating them all !

The 'Tans were called in because the local RIC left the rural barracks.

bb12 wrote: »

There are sticking their fingers in wounds which are still open.

For some people, said wounds will never be allowed to close; the wounds provide too much political capital to be ever forgotten about.

bobbysands81

[TWEET] https://twitter.com/bobbysands81/status/1214289108677382144?s=21[/TWEET]

Odhinn

saabsaab wrote: »

They had joined when this was a regular police force and many helped or did not really fight the rebels. Others were trapped in their job -I 'm sure this is common enough elsewhere- caught between a rock and a hard place.

They had clear choices by 1919.

Millionaire only not

bobbysands81 wrote: »

[TWEET] https://twitter.com/bobbysands81/status/1214289108677382144?s=21[/TWEET]

When was that motion put forward ?

Sean.3516

I’ve never subscribed to the belief that Irish Catholics who served in the RIC, Dublin Met or British Army were somehow “selling their souls”. Most of these catholic Irishmen were not ardent royalists but rather men trying to earn a living who simply could not afford the luxury of revolutionary idealism.

This is not to denigrate the revolutionaries, (I’m not making a value judgement about either camp) but to draw moral equivalence between these men who were professional policemen doing their jobs and the Black and Tans/Auxiliaries who were by contrast mercenaries who committed war crimes is just wrong.

I’ve always thought of the War of Independence as just as much a civil war as it was a war against an external power considering the extent to which the Irish fought against each other in the conflict. Most RIC/Dublin Met officers would have been members before the conflict began and therefore could not have been said to have signed up to kill Irishmen as the Tans did.

The fact that THESE MEN (NOT THE TANS in case this isn’t clear) were in a situation where they fought fellow Irishmen is a tragedy and ought there deaths ought to be commemorated as such.

careless sherpa

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I’ve never subscribed to the belief that Irish Catholics who served in the RIC, Dublin Met or British Army were somehow “selling their souls”. Most of these catholic Irishmen were not ardent royalists but rather men trying to earn a living who simply could not afford the luxury of revolutionary idealism.

This is not to denigrate the revolutionaries, (I’m not making a value judgement about either camp) but to draw moral equivalence between these men who were professional policemen doing their jobs and the Black and Tans/Auxiliaries who were by contrast mercenaries who committed war crimes is just wrong.

I’ve always thought of the War of Independence as just as much a civil war as it was a war against an external power considering the extent to which the Irish fought against each other in the conflict. Most RIC/Dublin Met officers would have been members before the conflict began and therefore could not have been said to have signed up to kill Irishmen as the Tans did.

The fact that THESE MEN (NOT THE TANS in case this isn’t clear) were in a situation where they fought fellow Irishmen is a tragedy and ought there deaths ought to be commemorated as such.

What should be done is use it as an opportunity to acknowledge their brutal history and commemorate their victims. Their role during the mid nineteenth century is as horrific as that of the tans

Sean.3516

careless sherpa wrote: »

What should be done is use it as an opportunity to acknowledge their brutal history and commemorate their victims. Their role during the mid nineteenth century is as horrific as that of the tans

This sounds like more of a critique of British policy in Ireland than of the individuals who served in the RIC/DubMet during the War of Independence.

If we can commemorate German soldiers who died during WW2 without commemorating the SS then we should be able to commemorate the RIC without commemorating the Black and Tans.