RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

jmcc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I referred you to my previous comments - it appears that you do not know how to go back a couple of pages - strange that...

Since we are not, to your mind, as smart as you, could you explain, in simple terms, what makes somebody "more" Irish"?

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The danger here is that Flanagan will be too much of a coward to touch it again and do it as the Expert Group suggested. the planned appropriate remembrance might not happen at all which would be sad.

That assumes that Flanagan will be still in government.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What is 'appropriate' though that could just be code for half assed lip service.
Do it right is my view warts and all good and bad of it.

We have listened to so much mythologising of the Rising through the WOI it would be nice to see some balance brought into the discussion.

If people don't like it they don't have to go.

We know now what is inappropriate. The Expert Group knew before it happened that it would be inappropriate. The feelings, sensitivities of Irish people are just as important as any Unionist, and they vociferously made their feelings known on this. If you are the 'democrat' you say you are that is plainly evident.

There should never be a hierarchy of victims but there is a hierarchy of causes and organisations.
Respectful remembrance was to be given to the RIC/DMP. It might never happen now.

gormdubhgorm

Well for the next time anyone is looking at the Proclamation of Independence, or in Ceannt station in Galway named after Eamonn Ceannt:

Have a think about this father of Eamonn Ceannt -

RIC Head Constable James Kent, 27415. Promoted 21 Oct 1883. Stationed in Ardee in 1889. Chairman of the RIC Force Fund post retirement (a Fund for widows and orphans of the Force)

Maybe no one wants to remember James Kent - because they 'Ceannt' bring themselves to do so?

J Mysterio

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My father was a pig in the Boer War.

?

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well for the next time anyone is looking at the Proclamation of Independence, or in Ceannt station in Galway named after Eamonn Ceannt:

Have a think about this father of Eamonn Ceannt -

RIC Head Constable James Kent, 27415. Promoted 21 Oct 1883. Stationed in Ardee in 1889. Chairman of the RIC Force Fund post retirement (a Fund for widows and orphans of the Force)

Maybe no one wants to remember James Kent - because they 'Ceannt' bring themselves to do so?

As said already there is a remembrance ceremony every August in St Paul's church for the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans. Feel free to toodle along if you haven't already done so. HARP on their web page has all the details if you are interested.

FrancieBrady

J Mysterio wrote: »

?

A saying of my dad's. Just a wee play on words as people where talking about father's in the RIC.

FrancieBrady

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

As said already there is a remembrance ceremony every August in St Paul's church for the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans. Feel free to toodle along if you haven't already done so. HARP on their web page has all the details if you are interested.

And an academic conference was recommended. I'd have loved that myself.

Junkyard Tom

When it comes to the history of British rule, its erstwhile enablers, and contemporary apologists, all too often their seeking of respect is little but thinly disguised bitterness about loss of privilege.

marieholmfan

jmcc wrote: »

You are not exactly the Kevin Myers level of revisionist, are you? He was talking about his ancestor not his descendants. Keane's descendants would be his children.

Regards...jmcc

Basta. Who cares we all know what he means . I'd say you do this in real life as well. It's irritating.

marieholmfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well for the next time anyone is looking at the Proclamation of Independence, or in Ceannt station in Galway named after Eamonn Ceannt:

Have a think about this father of Eamonn Ceannt -

RIC Head Constable James Kent, 27415. Promoted 21 Oct 1883. Stationed in Ardee in 1889. Chairman of the RIC Force Fund post retirement (a Fund for widows and orphans of the Force)

Maybe no one wants to remember James Kent - because they 'Ceannt' bring themselves to do so?

because


Ceannt wasn't his father and you aren't your great great uncle or whatever (clearly from the tone of our conversation that isn't intended as an insult ).

However when people bring up their relatives it seems to me that they are trying to short circuit discussion as it is improper to criticised others families .

It seems to me that this is a sort of rhetorical trick.

gormdubhgorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

because


Ceannt wasn't his father and you aren't your great great uncle or whatever (clearly from the tone of our conversation that isn't intended as an insult ).

However when people bring up their relatives it seems to me that they are trying to short circuit discussion as it is improper to criticised others families .

It seems to me that this is a sort of rhetorical trick.

No trick just the truth- there was nationalist RIC you know.
Mind blown....? :eek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89amonn_Ceannt#Personal_life

marieholmfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No trick just the truth- there was nationalist RIC you know.
Mind blown....? :eek:

Boooooooom

jmcc

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

When it comes to the history of British rule, its erstwhile enablers, and contemporary apologists, all too often their seeking of respect is little but thinly disguised bitterness about loss of privilege.

I think that there was a larger electorate for the 1918 election because the franchise had been extended. (Representation of the People Act, 1918) Previously, only people with a certain area of property could vote and this explains, in some respects, the prominence of the IPP. Gdg, Charlie Tan'agan and the rest of the neo-Unionist faction seem to regret the franchise ever having being extended to men over 21 and women over 30 with the property requirement being dropped. This massively changed the elctorate and the system from being one of governance by the few chosen by the few to a more democratic system. Once the people had a chance to vote, they rejected the British Empire and its "Home Rule".

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

marieholmfan wrote: »

Basta. Who cares we all know what he means . I'd say you do this in real life as well. It's irritating.

Suppose it makes a change from talking about Higgins. So much for Gdg's theory of us being the same poster or being in cahoots.

Regards...jmcc

marieholmfan

jmcc wrote: »

Suppose it makes a change from talking about Higgins. So much for Gdg's theory of us being the same poster or being in cahoots.

Regards...jmcc

Lol!
GormDubhGorm disliking the RIC is the normative position ! On this matter jmcc and I are just dull conformists.


Mise le me as
Marieholmfan

Odhinn

So, can we conclude the thread with friendly agreement on the notion that in fact the Brits are/were to blame?

Strazdas

Odhinn wrote: »

So, can we conclude the thread with friendly agreement on the notion that in fact the Brits are/were to blame?

RIC were largely Irish Catholics....in their particular case, it was Irishmen dishing out murder and brutality to fellow Irish people (and sometimes on the receiving end).

fundi

Odhinn wrote: »

So, can we conclude the thread with friendly agreement on the notion that in fact the Brits are/were to blame?

In the decade before Independence someone said 1800 people were murdered by Republicans and 20 by the Black n Tans....but it was all the Brits fault of course.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The RIC/DMP are commemorated every year without objection.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Respectful remembrance was to be given to the RIC/DMP. It might never happen now.

You are going round in circles.

facehugger99

Only when the ‘CBS, 800 years, kool-aid’ generations have died off will we have a mature debate on matters of remembrance and suchlike.

Too many lads blaming their woes on the Brits, knocking round the country at present.

It’ll be a while yet before unification talks start.

Still the usual 20 years away.

Galwayguy35

facehugger99 wrote: »

Only when the ‘CBS, 800 years, kool-aid’ generations have died off will we have a mature debate on matters of remembrance and suchlike.

Too many lads blaming their woes on the Brits, knocking round the country at present.

It’ll be a while yet before unification talks start.

Still the usual 20 years away.

Wrap yourself up well in the union jack, it's a cold evening out.

jmcc

facehugger99 wrote: »

Still the usual 20 years away.

Don't know what you, Gdg and Fundi are worried about. In your world it is always 1690.

Regards...jmcc

fundi

jmcc wrote: »

Don't know what you, Gdg and Fundi are worried about. In your world it is always 1690.

Regards...jmcc

Can only say for myself, it is never 1690. It is a sign you have lost when you make personal insults about others.

marieholmfan

fundi wrote: »

Can only say for myself, it is never 1690. It is a sign you have lost when you make personal insults about others.

He hasn't lost. The commemoration has been cancelled. Flanagan has the third seat in a three seater and no quota.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

You are going round in circles.

I forgot I have to spell it out for some. 'It may never happen as part of the centenary events'.
Their families will no doubt continue the yearly commemorations.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Only when the ‘CBS, 800 years, kool-aid’ generations have died off will we have a mature debate on matters of remembrance and suchlike.

Too many lads blaming their woes on the Brits, knocking round the country at present.

It’ll be a while yet before unification talks start.

Still the usual 20 years away.

They said that in 1966. The reaction in 2020 was so strong the government turned and shat the load inside 48 hours.

fundi

marieholmfan wrote: »

He hasn't lost. The commemoration has been cancelled.

Postponed, not cancelled, according to the government. But then only a fool would believe what an Irish government would say anyway.

One good thing, it shows the country is not ready for a "United Ireland" anyway. It is further away than it was, according to the Taoiseach.

jmcc

marieholmfan wrote: »

He hasn't lost. The commemoration has been cancelled. Flanagan has the third seat in a three seater and no quota.

And he's getting on in years. This RIC/Black and Tans/Auxillaries commemoration always had a whiff of a legacy thing about it. Politicians always want something by which they can be remembered but Charlie Tan'agan seems to have forgotten the old truism about political careers all ending in failure. He might even consider standing down rather than running again.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

fundi wrote: »

Can only say for myself, it is never 1690. It is a sign you have lost when you make personal insults about others.

Ah! 1912 then. It was not a personal insult. It was a joke.

Regards...jmcc

marieholmfan

fundi wrote: »

Postponed, not cancelled, according to the government. But then only a fool would believe what an Irish government would say anyway.

One good thing, it shows the country is not ready for a "United Ireland" anyway. It is further away than it was, according to the Taoiseach.

United Ireland is entirely dependent on Brexit.