RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Fann Linn

Madigan on 6.1 putting forward her argument for Black & Tan inscriptions in Glasnevin. This shower just don't know when to stop.

Naggdefy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can see through

You have a seriously inflated opinion of yourself. I can this I can that. For someone who talks a great game about inclusivity.

How about you recognise the genuine upset of the majority of Irish people, who do not want those who tried to prevent our independence. COMMEMORATED.

FrancieBrady

Naggdefy wrote: »

You have a seriously inflated opinion of yourself. I can this I can that. For someone who talks a great game about inclusivity.

How about you recognise the genuine upset of the majority of Irish people, who do not want those who tried to prevent our independence. COMMEMORATED.

That is to be ignored too.
Charlie Flanagan said when cancelling that this 'would cause a lot of pain to many', completely oblivious to the very obvious pain it was causing.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And working for an organisation tasked and ordered to brutally suppress our independence and liberty. That is a fact, no matter how you wish to spin it.

It was an organisation tasked and ordered to supress illegal, despicable, murderous, treasonous, secessionist, violent, terrorists.
This statement is a fact.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It was an organisation tasked and ordered to supress illegal, despicable, murderous, treasonous, secessionist, violent, terrorists.
This statement is a fact.

Which is a fair enough view if you were part of the British occupation - the side that ultimately lost that argument.

Remember what i was saying about getting over the fact that revolutions and rebellions are won or lost?

The Rape of Lucretia

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As I said before I have no problem with outside culture as long as it is not to the detriment of Irish culture.

Irish culture being really a subset of British culture, albeit with its own rich spin on that. There is no Irish culture independent of British culture, and it goes well beyond the obvious like speaking English.

gormdubhgorm

Plus it says it here word for word from the advisory expert group on commemorations?

http://irishmuseums.org/uploads/downloads/publications/guidance-from-the-expert-advisory-group-on-commemorations-over-the-remainder-of-the-decade-of-centenaries-eng-1.pdf

"Consideration should also be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the
Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) and the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) and to acknowledge their place in history.

Suddenly Ferriter wants to rewrite his own history so he is also on the victorious side of it by trying to the muddy the water.

Another hypocrite what sort of commemoration did he envisage 'smart casual' the way he dresses as opposed to formal?

Naggdefy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is only Leo playing the political game.
Trying to be as good as Bertie, Adams etc.

Look at Roddy Doyle's trilogy full of hiberno-English and Dublin slang.
An echo of the Irish language in parts.
The use of 'me' instead of 'mo'.
In fact teachers of English as a foreign language use Roddy Doyle's books to teach Hiberno-English.

The left over of Irish language structure in Irish people's use of English etc.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/38997656.pdf

That is all it has become a left over - hence my mention of Jamaican Patois etc.

This are much more important issues to rectify from an Irishness standpoint rather than expressing Irishness through a narrow political narrative that this thread was started on.

I do be doing me best to explain me point.
But apparently I am a Black and Tan apologist, or worse at West Brit.

You're a naive Irish language supremacist snob who wants to define Irishness.

Anyone with a contrary opinion to your 'progressive' agenda is an atavistic caveman in your book.

Yet the panel of historians, qualified to speak, can see a commemoration of RIC/Black and Tans is wholly inappropriate.

I studied history in TCD and have many friends in the field. The actual Black and Tans had many Irish recruits among them, they didn't all speak with cockney accents. They filled in gaps in the RIC in large numbers.

gormdubhgorm

Naggdefy wrote: »

You're a naive Irish language supremacist snob who wants to define Irishness.

It seems that is what exactly the protesters have achieved - RIC/DMP = all British evil etc etc - republican narrative etc

When that is patently just not true.

The Rape of Lucretia

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

"Consideration should also be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the
Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) and the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) and to acknowledge their place in history.

And it says commemorate the RIC and DMP as entities, not commemorate the murderers who were members of the RIC or DMP. Quote a difference. Surely anyone who has an issue with an organisation that has had a murderous terrorist a member of it, would never vote for Sinn Fein, and they would long since have ceased to exist south of the border ?

Naggdefy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It was an organisation tasked and ordered to supress illegal, despicable, murderous, treasonous, secessionist, violent, terrorists.
This statement is a fact.

Are you British? Self loathing Irish? Eoghan Harris? Pseudo intellect? When you despise everything Irish so much why not head to Blighty?

Nah you're just a pathetic WUM. Think you're so clever with your initials TROL.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus it says it here word for word from the advisory expert group on commemorations?

http://irishmuseums.org/uploads/downloads/publications/guidance-from-the-expert-advisory-group-on-commemorations-over-the-remainder-of-the-decade-of-centenaries-eng-1.pdf

"Consideration should also be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the
Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) and the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) and to acknowledge their place in history.

Suddenly Ferriter wants to rewrite his own history so he is also on the victorious side of it by trying to the muddy the water.

Another hypocrite what sort of commemoration did he envisage 'smart casual' the way he dresses as opposed to formal?

Jesus, this is pathetic. This lie has been tried, variously by Charlie Flanagan, Leo Varadkar, and on here by blanch and markodaly.
It's rubbish and not even Leo is still trying to cling on to it. They ignored the all party committee too and bypassed it.

Scroll to the appendix and there you will see the recommendations for formal state events

gormdubhgorm

Naggdefy wrote: »

I studied history in TCD and have many friends in the field. The actual Black and Tans had many Irish recruits among them, they didn't all speak with cockney accents. They filled in gaps in the RIC in large numbers.

Ah see how quick you notice how there was some Irish people who fought with 'The Tans' but ignore the fact that. There were different versions of the RIC, different Irish people with difficult persuasions with the RIC.

Much like the Gardai today - Morris tribunal etc

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jesus, this is pathetic. This lie has been tried, variously by Charlie Flanagan, Leo Varadkar, and on here by blanch and markodaly.
It's rubbish and not even Leo is still trying to cling on to it. They ignored the all party committee too and bypassed it.

Scroll to the appendix and there you will see the recommendations for formal state events

Again very subjective, much as one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Naggdefy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It seems that is what exactly the protesters have achieved - RIC/DMP = all British evil etc etc - republican narrative etc

When that is patently just not true.

Not at all. The Irish people can separate ordinary English people from British government institutions of oppression.

Of course there were lots of good men in the RIC. But the institution was a Crown one.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Again very subjective, much as one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

What is 'SUBJECTIVE' about a list of formal state commemorations that doesn't have the RIC/DMP on it????

**** me, you are entitled to your opinion, which I will debate, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

gormdubhgorm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It was an organisation tasked and ordered to supress illegal, despicable, murderous, treasonous, secessionist, violent, terrorists.
This statement is a fact.

It is actually. But Francie Brady did not even know the definition of terrorism, until I pointed it out in the CJ Terrorism act 2005.

Naggdefy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ah see how quick you notice how there was some Irish people who fought with 'The Tans' but ignore the fact that. There were different versions of the RIC, different Irish people with difficult persuasions with the RIC.

Much like the Gardai today - Morris tribunal etc

Rubbish point. The Gardai are the police force of a democratically elected people. The RIC implemented the will of the British Crown to suppress the will of the Irish people.

You commemorate institutions based on what they stood for.

Naggdefy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is actually. But Francie Brady did not even know the definition of terrorism, until I pointed it out in the CJ Terrorism act 2005.

2005..

A total anachronism with 1920 Ireland.

One man's freedom fighter etc..

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not absurd at all - I will say again Constable James McDonnell of the RIC killed 21 January 1919 Solohedbeg aged 50 years old. From Mayo fluent Irish speaker.

He was outnumbered 8-2 - was a widower and left six children behind.

Eileen Quinn 24 year old mother of 3, 7 months pregnant with her fourth. Her crime was being a civilian she wore no uniform. The Loughnane brothers murdered and mutilated bodies dumped in lake, their crime being civilians. Murdered by the RIC.

J Mysterio

Fann Linn wrote: »

Madigan on 6.1 putting forward her argument for Black & Tan inscriptions in Glasnevin. This shower just don't know when to stop.

It's seriously pissing me off. Did she specifically mention adding names of Black and Tans?

J Mysterio

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Irish culture being really a subset of British culture, albeit with its own rich spin on that. There is no Irish culture independent of British culture, and it goes well beyond the obvious like speaking English.

What an outrageous comment that is.
Are you Irish? Do you live in Ireland?

Naggdefy

J Mysterio wrote: »

What an outrageous comment that is.
Are you Irish? Do you live in Ireland?

A trol no doubt.

If not he shouldn't live in a country he despises so much. Probably drawing a public sector salary. Or at least earning his living here. A complete weasel.

Ted_YNWA

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Irish culture being really a subset of British culture, albeit with its own rich spin on that. There is no Irish culture independent of British culture, and it goes well beyond the obvious like speaking English.

There is a lot of crossover between British & Irish culture. To say there is no Irish culture is very antagonistic. Do not post in this manner again

Naggdefy wrote: »

Are you British? Self loathing Irish? Eoghan Harris? Pseudo intellect? When you despise everything Irish so much why not head to Blighty?

Nah you're just a pathetic WUM. Think you're so clever with your initials TROL.

J Mysterio wrote: »

What an outrageous comment that is.
Are you Irish? Do you live in Ireland?

Naggdefy wrote: »

A trol no doubt.

If not he shouldn't live in a country he despises so much. Probably drawing a public sector salary. Or at least earning his living here. A complete weasel.

Attack the post, not the poster.

Zebra3

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So that includes Irish people who were with the British forces to you?

What are you going on about?

I said if people want to talk about numbers killed, let's count them if they think that makes a point. Including those killed by British genocide.

You will be in a state of mental turmoil when the Civil War gets discussed in a few years time.

I won't be in any state of turmoil about the civil war. One of my grandfathers fought in it. I know a lot about it. But I'm not one of these losers desperately seeking modern society's vindication of his side's actions.

Naggdefy

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

There is a lot of crossover between British & Irish culture. To say there is no Irish culture is very antagonistic. Do not post in this manner again



Attack the post, not the poster.

Without being antagonistic, it is very difficult to differentiate between the posts and the poster here given his history of treating ordinary Irish people as a type of serf.

I do apologise.

gormdubhgorm

Naggdefy wrote: »

Rubbish point. The Gardai are the police force of a democratically elected people. The RIC implemented the will of the British Crown to suppress the will of the Irish people.

You commemorate institutions based on what they stood for.

There was no will of the Irish people for 1916 yet that is celebrated they were spat at in the streets by the Irish people.

Fann Linn

J Mysterio wrote: »

It's seriously pissing me off. Did she specifically mention adding names of Black and Tans?

In relation to The Tans, the phrase she used if I recall correctly was 'we should be all inclusive'.
Take from that what you will.

Zebra3

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There was no will of the Irish people for 1916 yet that is celebrated they were spat at in the streets by the Irish people.

Nobody disputes that, but there was never any mandate for British rule in Ireland either.

FrancieBrady

Zebra3 wrote: »

What are you going on about?

I said if people want to talk about numbers killed, let's count them if they think that makes a point. Including those killed by British genocide.



I won't be in any state of turmoil about the civil war. One of my grandfathers fought in it. I know a lot about it. But I'm not one of these losers desperately seeking modern society's vindication of his side's actions.

This ^.
The civil war was a part of the tragedy of colonisation. The British left a mess behind them almost everywhere.

I don't think anyone should be seeing it as anything but a sad tragedy and appropriately commemorate them.

No doubt there will be 'Charlie's' trying to push their own agenda's, but the Irish people proved they were well ready for that.