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RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

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    #2672
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There was no will of the Irish people for 1916 yet that is celebrated they were spat at in the streets by the Irish people.

    Incorrect they were spat on by some Irish people. The colonial power then by their stupidity turned the men of 16 into heroes and martyrs.
    I suspect some here would still spit on them.


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    #2673
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There was no will of the Irish people for 1916 yet that is celebrated they were spat at in the streets by the Irish people.

    Why are you surprised that it took time to persuade people and why are you surprised (and why have you not got over) that the people were persuaded?


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    #2674
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Jesus, this is pathetic. This lie has been tried, variously by Charlie Flanagan, Leo Varadkar, and on here by blanch and markodaly.
    It's rubbish and not even Leo is still trying to cling on to it. They ignored the all party committee too and bypassed it.

    Scroll to the appendix and there you will see the recommendations for formal state events

    Well it seems your idea is to acknowledge the RIC/DMP but do so in a manner so it will not be noticed by the general populace. Only by academics/historians etc that is a cod.

    Fair play to Flanagan for bringing attention to the reality.
    If people get thier wish and he loses his seat - he will be following in the republican 'martyrdom' tradition. History will treat him kindly like Pearse/Tone/Emmett.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #2675
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There was no will of the Irish people for 1916 yet that is celebrated they were spat at in the streets by the Irish people.

    Correct. We were part of the UK at that time too, not a colony.


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    #2676
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Well it seems your idea is to acknowledge the RIC/DMP but do so in a manner so it will not be noticed by the general populace. Only by academics/historians etc that is a cod.

    Fair play to Flanagan for bringing attention to the reality.
    If people get thier wish and he loses his seat - he will be following in the republican 'martyrdom' tradition. History will treat him kindly like Pearse/Tone/Emmett.

    We'll leave it to the 'future' then. For the present, he has been emphatically told to stick to the advice of the experts.

    If people wish to commemorate these men there is ample uncontested opportunity for them to do it at the annual commemoration that is held every year. The one you don't seem to be aware of.


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    #2677
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There was no will of the Irish people for 1916

    How do you know?


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    #2678
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Rubbish it was not all opression as other posters have pointed out.
    ............................




    Part of their assigned duties was the targeting of nationalists.


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    #2679
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Part of their assigned duties was the targeting of nationalists.

    Far more nationalists and Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the black n tans.


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    #2680
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    fundi wrote: »
    Far more nationalists and Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the black n tans.
    How many Irish people were killed by agents of the crown?


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    #2681
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    fundi wrote: »
    Far more nationalists and Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the black n tans.

    The RIC upheld British rule that presided over the famine in Ireland. Want to add that couple of million deaths in?


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    #2682
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    fundi wrote: »
    Far more nationalists and Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the black n tans.

    So you are quite open now in your mission here, you wish to vindicate the B&T's by playing a warped numbers game?


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    #2683
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    There was no will of the Irish people for 1916 yet that is celebrated they were spat at in the streets by the Irish people.

    They were cheered in other parts of Dublin when moved to Kilmainham. You don't have enough historical knowledge to debate many issues on this thread.

    Despite all your bombast.


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    #2684
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Naggdefy wrote: »
    They were cheered in other parts of Dublin when moved to Kilmainham. You don't have enough historical knowledge to debate many issues on this thread.

    Despite all your bombast.
    If you do your research using only 'media of time' accounts then you will think that they were hated. However the media at the time was voiciferously anti the rebels.

    There is actually no definite data on how the rising was received but the fact that opinion changed so massively suggests a people in fear of having an open opinion.
    Open support could get you brutally killed.


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    #2685
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fundi wrote: »
    Far more nationalists and Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the black n tans.

    If you manipulate the timeframe to suit your narrative.

    Keep beating that marching drum down the cul de sac.


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    #2686
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Look at this thread.

    Will we ever just move on??


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    #2687
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you do your research using only 'media of time' accounts then you will think that they were hated. However the media at the time was voiciferously anti the rebels.

    .

    And the people at the time in Dublin were very against the rebels too, by all accounts.


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    #2688
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you do your research using only 'media of time' accounts then you will think that they were hated. However the media at the time was voiciferously anti the rebels.

    There is actually no definite data on how the rising was received but the fact that opinion changed so massively suggests a people in fear of having an open opinion.
    Open support could get you brutally killed.

    They, rebels, were cheered when captured units were brought through North King Street.


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    #2689
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Look at this thread.

    Will we ever just move on??

    We had. Under the guidance of educated and sensible people we had come up with appropriate commemoration.
    Until Charlie made a right charlie of himself and the secret agenda of some.


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    #2690
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Interestingly the media fell quickly out of step with the public's attitude to the 1916 leaders . The Daily express and Times being staunchly unionist even the Indo calling for executions.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/1916/words-of-the-rising/out-of-step-dublin-newspapers-reaction-to-the-rising-34452956.html


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    #2691
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    fundi wrote: »
    And the people at the time in Dublin were very against the rebels too, by all accounts.

    By all accounts..

    I've studied the period and this simply isn't true, I'll quote eminent historians like JJ Lee, Brian Hanley and the late David Fitzpatrick.

    As Francie has pointed out William Martin Murphy's 'Independent' was a pro British rag. Not a lot has changed.


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    #2692
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    fundi wrote: »
    And the people at the time in Dublin were very against the rebels too, by all accounts.

    The 'accounts' of the Irish Times and Independent primarily if you do proper research. Both newspapers were anti the rebels calling for the death penalty.

    There is no or very little data available outside of that.


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    #2693
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Look at this thread.

    Will we ever just move on??

    That's easy to say. Would you like a commemoration of people involved in killing grand uncles etc who wanted to gain independence from Britain?


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    #2694
    fundi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭fundi


    You are forgetting many people witnessed it, and told their families. After independence it was not popular or profitable to express such opinions in public though.


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    #2695
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    How many Irish people were killed by agents of the crown?

    The numbers aren't confidential. A good researcher could find them on google I am sure. I would only remember them if specific numbers mattered. What matters for me is that a lot of people died.


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    #2696
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Look at this thread.

    Will we ever just move on??

    We had until idiots in FG wanted to comemorate the RIC/DMP/ Black and Tans.


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    #2697
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Naggdefy wrote: »
    They, rebels, were cheered when captured units were brought through North King Street.

    How is it known whether the cheering was for the captured or the capturers ?


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    #2698
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    fundi wrote: »
    You are forgetting many people witnessed it, and told their families. After independence it was not popular or profitable to express such opinions in public though.

    And many witnessed the support for the rebels immediately after the 30 April 1916 surrender. It was recorded immediately afterwards.


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    #2699
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The numbers aren't confidential. A good researcher could find them on google I am sure. I would only remember them if specific numbers mattered. What matters for me is that a lot of people died.

    753 years of occupation I'm sure the numbers are enormous. The Gorta More alone due to British policy is staggering.


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    #2700
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    How is it known whether the cheering was for the captured or the capturers ?

    When people shout up the republic. I think most people of any intellect could decipher who they were cheering TROL.


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    #2701
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    fundi wrote: »
    You are forgetting many people witnessed it, and told their families. After independence it was not popular or profitable to express such opinions in public though.

    :D Nobody 'witnessed' the majority of the country, that was physically impossible.

    What they probably did witness is some people protesting the rebels (because some did and some still are) and extrapolated from that that the whole country felt the same.


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