RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

fundi

Naggdefy wrote: »

And many witnessed the support for the rebels immediately after the 30 April 1916 surrender. It was recorded immediately afterwards.

The rebels were spat at and jeered because they were viewed as traitors. Most families had someone involved in the war effort at the time.

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

The rebels were spat at and jeered because they were viewed as traitors. Most families had someone involved in the war effort at the time.

True they were spat and jeered at, again only by some, claiming otherwise is bs, but I suspect you know that.

Naggdefy

fundi wrote: »

The rebels were spat at and jeered because they were viewed as traitors. Most families had someone involved in the war effort at the time.

By some. But cheered in many areas. So you've more research done than JJ Lee and David Fitzpatrick etc?

A lot of the Irish fighting on the Western front were sorry they weren't fighting in the Rising.

Junkyard Tom

fundi wrote: »

And the people at the time in Dublin were very against the rebels too

Fake news.

FrancieBrady

Naggdefy wrote: »

By some. But cheered in many areas. So you've more research done than JJ Lee and David Fitzpatrick etc?

A lot of the Irish fighting on the Western front were sorry they weren't fighting in the Rising.

I read an anecdotal account by one WW1 soldier that the Irish soldiers were taunted about what the British were doing back in Dublin. True or not, it highlights the dilemma many of them must have found themselves in.
Their earnest sacrifice betrayed.

Naggdefy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I read an anecdotal account by one WW1 soldier that the Irish soldiers were taunted about what the British were doing back in Dublin. True or not, it highlights the dilemma many of them must have found themselves in.
Their earnest sacrifice betrayed.

Sacrificing themselves for Home Rule while Lloyd George had already sealed their fate in collusion with Carson, Craig et al.

Odhinn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I read an anecdotal account by one WW1 soldier that the Irish soldiers were taunted about what the British were doing back in Dublin. True or not, it highlights the dilemma many of them must have found themselves in.
Their earnest sacrifice betrayed.

Redmond has a hand in all the deaths suffered by Irish volunteers in WW1. A failure writ in blood, yet you still have goons trying to represent him as a moderate nationalist despite his desire for a greater cut of the imperial pie rather than exiting the empire.

jmcc

Odhinn wrote: »

Redmond has a hand in all the deaths suffered by Irish volunteers in WW1. A failure writ in blood, yet you still have goons trying to represent him as a moderate nationalist despite his desire for a greater cut of the imperial pie rather than exiting the empire.

Didn't John "Unionist" Bruton have a painting of Redmond on the wall of the office of the Taoiseach while he was there? The Unionist also said on the Claire Byrne show that the British offered Ireland "Home Rule".

Regards...jmcc

lawred2

Naggdefy wrote: »

Without being antagonistic, it is very difficult to differentiate between the posts and the poster here given his history of treating ordinary Irish people as a type of serf.

I do apologise.

He's a well known wum. A reasonably witty one but once you know what that poster is.. you'll be less bothered and more amused.

Jinglejangle69

Naggdefy wrote: »

That's easy to say. Would you like a commemoration of people involved in killing grand uncles etc who wanted to gain independence from Britain?

The PIRA commemorate people who killed grand uncles of people who wanted independence.

Why are they allowed get away with it?

Naggdefy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The PIRA commemorate people who killed grand uncles of people who wanted independence.

Why are they allowed get away with it?

We're talking about a state here, commemorating those who tried to stop it's founding, by terror.

You do realise there is a difference between a soverign state and the PIRA?

Naggdefy

lawred2 wrote: »

He's a well known wum. A reasonably witty one but once you know what that poster is.. you'll be less bothered and more amused.

I don't really know about the wit part, his attempts at windup on the rugby fora, ascribing little pet names to all the players are clownish.

Odhinn

jmcc wrote: »

Didn't John "Unionist" Bruton have a painting of Redmond on the wall of the office of the Taoiseach while he was there? ........

He did. A failure, adorning his surroundings with a worse failure.

John Doe1

I come from a COI family in East Donegal and while I disagree with a State commemoration, id just like to point out a couple of things.

The RIC rank-and-file were majority Catholic with it being one of the few middle class jobs a Catholic could get at the time.

The Black and Tans existed for a miniscule period of time compared to the entire history of the RIC and were not considered RIC men by other constables and policemen. They did awful things but most of these men were just back from WW1 and were desensitised to violence and possibly suffering "Shellshock".

Plumbthedepths

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

The PIRA commemorate people who killed grand uncles of people who wanted independence.

Why are they allowed get away with it?

Can you not tell the difference between a comemoration by a group versus the state?

FrancieBrady

John Doe1 wrote: »

I come from a COI family in East Donegal and while I disagree with a State commemoration, id just like to point out a couple of things.

The RIC rank-and-file were majority Catholic with it being one of the few middle class jobs a Catholic could get at the time.

The Black and Tans existed for a miniscule period of time compared to the entire history of the RIC and were not considered RIC men by other constables and policemen. They did awful things but most of these men were just back from WW1 and were desensitised to violence and possibly suffering "Shellshock".

The RIC on their own did enough not to warrant a formal state commemoration. As an armed wing of the British state precludes them in my opinion.
Thousands suffered shellshock btw and managed not to do the damage the Black and Tans did.

The Rape of Lucretia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The RIC on their own did enough not to warrant a formal state commemoration. As an armed wing of the British state precludes them in my opinion.

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and Ireland to be precise. Staffed in the main by Irish.

Naggdefy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and Ireland to be precise. Staffed in the main by Irish.

Set up by Robert Peel in 1829. In Ireland they were evolved in eviction in the 19th century, especially. The Irish people voted for independence in 1918. This armed body tried to prevent her fellow countrymen and women from realising that independence.

Many of the RIC men killed in our War of Independence had ample opportunity to leave the force. They chose to be the henchmen of the British Crown.

FrancieBrady

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and Ireland to be precise. Staffed in the main by Irish.

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and the Anglo Irish ascendancy of Ireland. The rest of Ireland was disenfranchised.

Plumbthedepths

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and Ireland to be precise. Staffed in the main by Irish.

The RIC was an organisation tasked with imposing British rule in Ireland through force. You are correct the rank and file were nearly all 'local lads, catholic' positions of authority were reserved for the protestant upper class. Regardless of position all were still imposing the will of an occupying power.

Naggdefy

The real terrorists are Ulster Unionists. Threatening to fight against the Crown to stay loyal to the Crown. The Larne gun running, 40,000 guns, not interfered with by the authorities. Yet when the Irish volunteers try to bring ashore 1,500 guns at Howth the authorities kill 4 and injure 30 at Bachelor's walk, in a 'search'. Ulster Unionists were recklessly stirred on by opportunistic and bigoted politicians like Sir Randolph Churchill, Conservative MP, father of drunkard Winston, the fella who got lucky having the US and USSR as allies to defeat Nazi Germany.

Randolph coined the phrase 'Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right'. As The Rape of Lucretia would say, a despicable proponent of terrorism. Another gem of Randolph's, circa 1885, was 'If the GOM (Grand Old Man i.e. Gladstone) goes for Home Rule the orange card is the one to play'. Thus playing politics with peoples lives in the North of Ireland especially.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say so it's not surprising that Randolph Churchill, a proponent of terrorism, had a drunken son Winston who had no scruples about sending his terrorist gang to suppress Ireland.

fundi

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

the rank and file were nearly all 'local lads, catholic' positions of authority were reserved for the protestant upper class.

Not as much as you would like to think. On the island of Ireland in 1919, of the RIC's senior officers, 60% were Irish Protestants and rest Catholic. 70% of the rank and file of the RIC were Catholic with the rest Protestant. That 70/30 mix was probably not far off the population ratio in the 32 counties at the time.

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and the Anglo Irish ascendancy of Ireland. The rest of Ireland was disenfranchised.

Remember that a huge swathe of the Irish people only became eligible to vote in the 1918 election. They could not have voted for the elections that advocated Home Rule. This shift in the electorate demographics changed the momentum from Home Rule to Independence.

Regards...jmcc

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

Not as much as you would like to think. On the island of Ireland in 1919, of the RIC's senior officers, 60% were Irish Protestants and rest Catholic. 70% of the rank and file of the RIC were Catholic with the rest Protestant. That 70/30 mix was probably not far off the population ratio in the 32 counties at the time.

You'll have to forgive me but unless you can back up your claim with verified fact I'm going to assume it's bs but again it's hard to take relevance from it as no matter the make up they were still imposing the will of an occupying power.

FrancieBrady

The other three politicians laughing at Josepha Madigan putting the boot into Charlie Flanagan on The Week In Politics, was gold.

jmcc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

An armed wing of the united state of Britain and Ireland to be precise. Staffed in the main by Irish.

Kingdom, actually. Or did you miss that whole 1801 Act of Union thing? Don't try to distract people by trying to draw analogies with the United States of America. This was the colonisation, theft and subjugation of Ireland by England. England (which was ruled by French kings and queens and then by inbred German Middle Class non-royals) had no claim to Ireland. The English "pope" and the fake Laudabiliter bull could not grant any rights to Ireland. The RIC may have had Irish men in its ranks but it was a paramilitary wing of an occupying power. That is the historical reality of the situation.

On the bright side, you only have a few hours to wait before that DJ Marty Whelan plays elevator music at the wrong speed and chats away about all sorts of stuff on a radio station that was once meant to be a Classical music station.

Regards...jmcc

fundi

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me but unless you can back up your claim with verified fact.

Google is your friend. For most of its history, the ethnic and religious makeup of the RIC broadly matched that of the Irish population (about three-quarters Catholic and one-quarter Protestant)

Junkyard Tom

fundi wrote: »

Google is your friend. For most of its history, the ethnic and religious makeup of the RIC broadly matched that of the Irish population (about three-quarters Catholic and one-quarter Protestant)

That's like saying the plantation 'workers'-to-bosses ratio broadly reflected the population of Jamaica.

Good grief, listen to yourself.

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

Google is your friend. For most of its history, the ethnic and religious makeup of the RIC broadly matched that of the Irish population (about three-quarters Catholic and one-quarter Protestant)

The officer class was drawn from the landed gentry, but still a bunch of scumbags willing to impose British law on their compatriots.

fundi

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That's like saying the plantations 'workers' to bosses ratio broadly reflected the population of Jamaica.

And were 40% of bosses in Jamaica black? No. But 40% of senior officers in the RIC in 1919 were Catholic.