RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

lawred2

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/fionnan-sheahan-lack-of-consultation-on-commemorations-shows-lessons-of-past-have-been-forgotten-38855687.html

Decent review by Fionnan Sheahan

omega man

Bambi wrote: »

tbh I turned off once the ex guard claimed his little group were non-political

I bet HAARP attend Easter rising commerations given that they were decent Irish lads same as the RIC.

Such guff.

This is the problem. Some people don’t want to hear another side.

This chap served his country for almost 4 decades as a member of AGS. I’m sure he contributed far more to our state than many of the armchair nationalists who seem so outraged that others are willing to look back on our complex history with a different view.
The online abuse he received was vile but to be expected sadly.

Whilst I didn’t agree with everything he said I found the interview informative and I feel I understand the RIC history a little more than I did beforehand.

FrancieBrady

lawred2 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/fionnan-sheahan-lack-of-consultation-on-commemorations-shows-lessons-of-past-have-been-forgotten-38855687.html

Decent review by Fionnan Sheahan

Josepha is fast becoming the 'cat with nine lives'.

Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin has contrasted the 36 meetings with TDs representing all parties that Ms Humphreys held with the six meetings chaired by Ms Madigan.

Some 10 days ago, Ms Madigan was proclaiming herself as "the minister responsible for leading the Decade of Centenaries programme".

Yet she was nowhere to be seen last week as the proverbial hit the fan and fingers of blame were firmly pointed at Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan going on a solo run.

FrancieBrady

omega man wrote: »

This is the problem. Some people don’t want to hear another side.

This chap served his country for almost 4 decades as a member of AGS. I’m sure he contributed far more to our state than many of the armchair nationalists who seem so outraged that others are willing to look back on our complex history with a different view.
The online abuse he received was vile but to be expected sadly.

Whilst I didn’t agree with everything he said I found the interview informative and I feel I understand the RIC history a little more than I did beforehand.

He can point to Leo , Charlie and Joespha if he wants to blame anyone. They have ensured a couple of generations are fully aware what the RIC/DMP did in all it's brutal glory.

jimgoose

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Josepha is fast becoming the 'cat with nine lives'.

Josepha is the textbook over-educated eejit. She was damn lucky that time of the Maria Bailey affair that the sharks didn't get her well-upholstered little arse as well. :pac:

marieholmfan

jimgoose wrote: »

Josepha is the textbook over-educated eejit. She was damn lucky that time of the Maria Bailey affair that the sharks didn't get her well-upholstered little arse as well. :pac:

In all fairness to Josepha she has a lovely bottom. Much nicer than mine.

lawred2

jimgoose wrote: »

Josepha is the textbook over-educated eejit. She was damn lucky that time of the Maria Bailey affair that the sharks didn't get her well-upholstered little arse as well. :pac:

over-educated is such a Brexity type slur

KWAG2019

The presumption of those pushing this has always been that opponents are ignoramuses. It bears repeating again and again against their revisionist propaganda that the problem for them isn’t that we don’t know about the RIC/DMP but that we do.

FrancieBrady

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The presumption of those pushing this has always been that opponents are ignoramuses. It bears repeating again and again against their revisionist propaganda that the problem for them isn’t that we don’t know about the RIC/DMP but that we do.

Yes, no surprise there. All politicians get the 'vile' 'gob****e' type of abuse. Whenever a FG or FF gets this kind of abuse they like to pretend it is unique.

the fact was with the RIC/DMP outrage was that a lot of it smart, to the point, historically accurate and intelligent, which is more than can be said of those proposing the event.

jimgoose

lawred2 wrote: »

over-educated is such a Brexity type slur

She's a lawyer by trade. As far as I'm concerned, that is a mental illness.

CrankyHaus

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The presumption of those pushing this has always been that opponents are ignoramuses. It bears repeating again and again against their revisionist propaganda that the problem for them isn’t that we don’t know about the RIC/DMP but that we do.

Well said. My first comments on this thread received a well-thanked response about how it was a "nice junior cert history essay" full of things that "weren't true". Of course that distinguished historian (I could tell from the condescending smiley faces in his post that he was arguing from an academic background) neglected to point out a single thing that was untrue in my comments.


That for me was a microcosm of this debate, both on this thread and outside of it. Haughty outrage denouncing the ignorant rabble that dare to criticise the RIC, followed by deafening silence or changing the subject as soon as the same rabble presented historical fact.

Edgware

marieholmfan wrote: »

In all fairness to Josepha she has a lovely bottom. Much nicer than mine.

I think all the girls have lovely bottoms

James Brown

Basically for the 1916 etc. we had consultations. That ex Garda from HARP was expecting some small remembrance ceremony and hoping Varadkar might attend.
That was thrown away because the blueshirts know best. Fine Gael, likely Tan-agan himself decided to make it a bigger state affair, under the lie of 'reconciliation'. Why? To re-write history in their own image. It's ignorance and arrogance, the main feature and key flaw of the Fine Gael party.
We learn about the RIC/Tans in school. We are quite aware thanks.

fundi

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We learn about the RIC/Tans in school.

We learn a very one sided version of history in school, that's the problem. And why do you and so many others refer to someone as "Tan-agan"? Very childish.

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

We learn a very one sided version of history in school, that's the problem. And why do you and so many others refer to someone as "Tan-agan"? Very childish.

Can you name a state that comemorates the memory of it's oppressors.
Considering what Flanagan attempted 'Tan-agan' is fitting.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

We learn a very one sided version of history in school, that's the problem. And why do you and so many others refer to someone as "Tan-agan"? Very childish.

Very few of us learned that the RIC and the Black and Tans were separate entities. But Charlie, yourself, Gormdubh and a few others seem to have somehow.

The only reason they were ever seen as 'different' is because the British couldn't afford the uniforms.

The Tetrarch

You'll be here for a few weeks, Francie.
Great thread, just the type you like.

Scoundrel

On this day 1921 the East Clare brigade of the IRA led by Michael Brennan ambush a patrol of Black and Tans and RIC killing two RIC men Stephen Carty and Jeremiah Curtin no doubt these fine upstanding RIC men were simply on patrol armed to the teeth with the Black and Tans checking bicycle lights or looking for poitín stills.

jimgoose

I was only recalling the other morning that Charlie Flanagan's father was the legendary Oliver J. Flanagan, one of these pathologically Catholic types who wanted the Freemasons made illegal and was a raging anti-Semite who said back in 1943 that Hitler had the right of it. No wonder Junior's head is all over the place. :pac:

FrancieBrady

jimgoose wrote: »

I was only recalling the other morning that Charlie Flanagan's father was the legendary Oliver J. Flanagan, one of these pathologically Catholic types who wanted the Freemasons made illegal and was a raging anti-Semite who said back in 1943 that Hitler had the right of it. No wonder Junior's head is all over the place. :pac:

Oliver "there was no sex in Ireland before television" Flanagan.

jimgoose

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oliver "there was no sex in Ireland before television" Flanagan.

The very man, yes. :pac:

James Brown

fundi wrote: »

We learn a very one sided version of history in school, that's the problem. And why do you and so many others refer to someone as "Tan-agan"? Very childish.

We get a gist. There may be some one sided in areas, but it's not lies. The views of a few might differ but it's the general consensus.
If you can point to any outright falsehoods, please do.
We know the RIC and Tans worked hand in hand. That the RIC regular assisted the Tans on many of their revenge and hate maneuvers.
FG going ahead without fair consultation and then using reconciliation and immaturity is nasty and disgusting behaviour.

Two reasons; lest we forget and it amuses me.

maccored

The other way of looking at this is that many in the south look at the north and complain that the two opposing sides should get on well and be friends, now the 30 year (ish) conflict is over (which is probably isnt, but that's another discussion.)

Yet, here we are in the south with a 100 year hatred that's still raging.

I say that with slight tongue in cheek as it was a pretty stupid suggestion in the first place.

fundi

The b and t were recruited mostly from Britain and were here in Ireland for a very short period of time. The RIC existed for much longer and mostly consisted of Irishmen. According to some, the b and t killed 20, the Republicans killed 1800 in the same era. A ratio of 90 to 1.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

The b and t were recruited mostly from Britain and were here in Ireland for a very short period of time. The RIC existed for much longer and mostly consisted of Irishmen. According to some, the b and t killed 20, the Republicans killed 1800 in the same era. A ratio of 90 to 1.

That is reasoning you need to use as you are the one trying to ignore stuff here. Most in Ireland don't ignore and don't try to isolate stuff to feed a bias. They see the whole picture and what Britain was responsible for and what the Irish were.
Britain lost in that equation/sum. And rightly so. Built some nice buildings though.

James Brown

fundi wrote: »

The b and t were recruited mostly from Britain and were here in Ireland for a very short period of time. The RIC existed for much longer and mostly consisted of Irishmen. According to some, the b and t killed 20, the Republicans killed 1800 in the same era. A ratio of 90 to 1.

What has one to do with the other? If they were here for an afternoon the point would still stand.
The Tans were assisted by a police force that propped up and maintained the authority of an occupying force.
There's a space between shunning and celebrating. The RIC can and are remembered by those who wish to. The complete arrogance of FG on this to run with it and then ridicule the public for giving out about it is the story here.

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

The b and t were recruited mostly from Britain and were here in Ireland for a very short period of time. The RIC existed for much longer and mostly consisted of Irishmen. According to some, the b and t killed 20, the Republicans killed 1800 in the same era. A ratio of 90 to 1.

The British were here for 753 years how many died due to the actions of their agents?

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is reasoning you need to use as you are the one trying to ignore stuff here. Most in Ireland don't ignore and don't try to isolate stuff to feed a bias. They see the whole picture and what Britain was responsible for and what the Irish were.
Britain lost in that equation/sum. And rightly so. Built some nice buildings though.

You are the one who ignores and isolates stuff, as you ignore the murders carried out by Republicans and defended the actions of the IRA up to the late nineties /gfa.
And the buildings the British built were mostly not great, but I fail to see what that has to do with it.

Edgware

As one poster stated if there was adequate R.I.C. uniforms available in 1920 we would never have heard the term Black and Tan. The R.I.C. actions in the War of Independence provided the local knowledge that Charlie and Bert from East London did not have.
FG made a complete mess of this and are treating the people as fools

The Tetrarch

jimgoose wrote: »

I was only recalling the other morning that Charlie Flanagan's father was the legendary Oliver J. Flanagan, one of these pathologically Catholic types who wanted the Freemasons made illegal and was a raging anti-Semite who said back in 1943 that Hitler had the right of it. No wonder Junior's head is all over the place. :pac:

I think he also wanted to solve our economic problems by printing more pound notes. My mother was in his constituency.