RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

jimgoose

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...in the same way republicans need to deal with the things they did that were wrong and the decisions they took.

...and the same way that Charlie Flanagan has to deal with Oliver J. :pac:

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The majority (59.4%) would like to raise their children in Ireland ‘a
great deal’ or ‘quite a lot’, with 23.9% undecided. Emigrants attribute this desire to a number of
factors, the most common relate to having their children in close proximity to their family..

Of course emigrants often miss their family, friends, familiar surroundings etc. That is the same the world over. It does not explain why so many Irish people found the "evil racist" empire to be less evil and racist than the Republic they left behind.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What do you think would have happened if there was no partition? The 1921 version of the IRA and UVF sings kumbaya and holds hands?

I think a civil war would have been avoided and 40 years of a conflict/war and the prospect of another imposition of a divisive border.

I don't believe had the British decided to back democracy and the 1918 vote (a 1918 version of standing up to Unionism as the Anglo Irish Agreement was) that Unionists would have had anywhere to go but democratic negotiations.

Is contested? One should re-read the GFA so as nationalists voted enmass to accept the status quo until there is a democratic mandate that says otherwise.

Accepting the status quo as long as that is the majority opinion is not the same thing as accepting partition and the British precence.

One can accept that the constitution allows abortion without accepting that abortion is right.
Perfectly sound and legitimate position to have.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

Of course emigrants often miss their family, friends, familiar surroundings etc. That is the same the world over. It does not explain why so many Irish people found the "evil racist" empire to be less evil and racist than the Republic they left behind.

WHERE is your data on this? How many say this? I have never, even anecdotally heard any emigrant call Ireland an 'evil racist republic'.

I think you are lying here.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think a civil war would have been avoided and 40 years of a conflict/war and the prospect of another imposition of a divisive border.

How?

I don't believe had the British decided to back democracy and the 1918 vote (a 1918 version of standing up to Unionism as the Anglo Irish Agreement was) that Unionists would have had anywhere to go but democratic negotiations.

Naive nonsense.

A best, the British would have left us at it, while the UVF would have started killing Free State soldiers and Gardai and the ensuing civil war would have been much worse than our own pub fight.

Accepting the status quo as long as that is the majority opinion is not the same thing as accepting partition and the British precence.

It is. You just want to try and be clever.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

How?

Is that not obvious considering what the Civil War was about?

Naive nonsense.

A best, the British would have left us at it, while the UVF would have started killing Free State soldiers and Gardai and the ensuing civil war would have been much worse than our own pub fight.

So, the question remains as it does to this day.

Without the support of the British, how would Unionists mount a sustained and effective campaign and to what end?

And maybe that was what needed to happen. As the British finally realised...it was for us to sort out our future, 'without outside impediment'.
`

It is. You just want to try and be clever.

No it isn't.

And the absurdity is revealed when you apply the same thinking to other constitutional position like abortion etc.

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have never, even anecdotally heard any emigrant call Ireland an 'evil racist republic'.

It's a bit rich of someone calling the countries millions of Irish choose to emigrate to (UK, Oz, New Z., Canada etc) "evil and racist " when all the evidence proves they were less racist and evil if anything than Republican Ireland left behind.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

It's a bit rich of someone calling the countries millions of Irish choose to emigrate to (UK, Oz, New Z., Canada etc) "evil and racist " when all the evidence proves they were less racist and evil if anything than Republican Ireland left behind.

What?

marieholmfan

fundi wrote: »

It's a bit rich of someone calling the countries millions of Irish choose to emigrate to (UK, Oz, New Z., Canada etc) "evil and racist " when all the evidence proves they were less racist and evil if anything than Republican Ireland left behind.

Three of those four countries are founded in recent genocide!

buried

Wait for it now, the revixionists will soon try to make out the indigenous peoples of Australia and the North Americas threw themselves off their own land, killed themselves and poisoned their own colonial gifted blankets en masse.

Bishop of hope

fundi wrote: »

It's a bit rich of someone calling the countries millions of Irish choose to emigrate to (UK, Oz, New Z., Canada etc) "evil and racist " when all the evidence proves they were less racist and evil if anything than Republican Ireland left behind.

It's amazing that when they went to these countries they could be treated as equals in most of them, but at home they were trampled over.
Our nations exported people have produced some of the most powerful people in history.

fundi

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's amazing that when they went to these countries they could be treated as equals in most of them, but at home they were trampled over.
.

Correct, there were many people in Ireland who were "trampled over" and burnt out by Republicans.

Hamsterchops

fundi wrote: »

Of course emigrants often miss their family, friends, familiar surroundings etc. That is the same the world over. It does not explain why so many Irish people found the "evil racist" empire to be less evil and racist than the Republic they left behind.

Gosh, you're brave

If I've learnt one thing since joining boards it's that there is a very strong Irish Republican bias in after hours, so you are either being provocative or just asking for heaps of abuse

The Republic has always smelt of roses, it's never been close minded, illtolerant or racist, not even in the 1920s 30s 40s 50s 60s or 70s. The British are Brutish thugs comitng genocide wherever they go, and Irish Republicans are heroes, period.

Or at least that's the impression I get from every 2nd thread on here, so just let it go I say ...

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Gosh, you're brave

If I've learnt one thing since joining boards it's that there is a very strong Irish Republican bias in after hours, so you are either being provocative or just asking for heaps of abuse

In her legendary efforts to defend the British fundl is actually criticising and denigrating everybody who took part in running this country since independence Hamster, including you.

The Republic has always smelt of roses,

No it didn't and nobody has suggested it even does now.

it's never been close minded, illtolerant or racist, not even in the 1920s 30s 40s 50s 60s or 70s.

Nobody has ever said that either. There are many incidents when the new state failed and failed it's people.

The British are Brutish thugs comitng genocide wherever they go, and Irish Republicans are heroes, period.

Nobody said that either, many Irish facilitated British oppression here. We are agreed the British oppressed here are we? Or are we required to ignore that as well by the Flanaganites?

Or at least that's the impression I get from every 2nd thread on here, so just let it go I say ...

Like fundl, it is 'the impression' you want to have. Which is a different story.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like fundl, it is 'the impression' you want to have. Which is a different story.

No no no, not like fundl at all, and don't start on me too!

... but you can't deny that there are a lot of threads with anti British/Pro Republican sentiment.

Cheers, over & out.

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In her legendary efforts to defend the British fundl is actually criticising and denigrating everybody who took part in running this country since independence Hamster, including you.

.

Rubbish. Most of us Irish are very fair minded, but I pointed out to the poster that not everyone who emigrated to the UK , Oz, New Zealand, Canada etc found the British Empire to be "racist or evil", their words not mine.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No no no, not like fundl at all, and don't start on me too!

... but you can't deny that there are a lot of threads with anti British/Pro Republican sentiment.

Cheers, over & out.

Why wouldn't there be? This is Ireland, we did have a revolution/rebellion against Britain here. A revolution/rebellion some are still trying to fight against. They are still losing.

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

Rubbish. Most of us Irish are very fair minded, but I pointed out to the poster that not everyone who emigrated to the UK , Oz, New Zealand, Canada etc found the British Empire to be "racist or evil", their words not mine.

Considering the millions of deaths the Empire was responsible The only people who regarded it as 'not evil' were those benefiting from it.

Odhinn

fundi wrote: »

Rubbish. Most of us Irish are very fair minded, but I pointed out to the poster that not everyone who emigrated to the UK , Oz, New Zealand, Canada etc found the British Empire to be "racist or evil", their words not mine.

...but it was demonstrably those things in kenya, burma, aden, sudan, india and numerous other states for centuries, and even today (chagos islanders).

fundi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Considering the millions of deaths the Empire was responsible The only people who regarded it as 'not evil' were those benefiting from it.

We were talking about the 20th century. It might have been evil but if it was not for it, these islands would have fallen to Germany about 80 years ago. And if it were not for the British Empire the vast majority of our emigrants would not have had English speaking countries to emigrate to.

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

We were talking about the 20th century. It might have been evil but if it was not for it, these islands would have fallen to Germany about 80 years ago. And if it were not for the British Empire the vast majority of our emigrants would not have had English speaking countries to emigrate to.

The Russians have more to do with defeating Germany than the UK tbh. History is not your forte I see

FrancieBrady

fundi wrote: »

We were talking about the 20th century. It might have been evil but if it was not for it, these islands would have fallen to Germany about 80 years ago. And if it were not for the British Empire the vast majority of our emigrants would not have had English speaking countries to emigrate to.

And there people, once again, is laid bare the weird warped thinking of the Flanaganites of this country.

I have had this same debate with maryishere (and whoever she was before that, I cannot remember) and others on this site. They all disappear when they cannot either prove their argument or credibly continue.
I have no doubt I would be wasting my time with you too fundl.

Odhinn

fundi wrote: »

We were talking about the 20th century. It might have been evil but if it was not for it, these islands would have fallen to Germany about 80 years ago.



And if it were not for the British Empire the vast majority of our emigrants would not have had English speaking countries to emigrate to.

...the vast majority of our emigrants wouldn't have had to leave in the first place.

fundi

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Russians have more to do with defeating Germany than the UK

Not the point. Between Dunkirk in June 1940 and Hitlers declaration of war on Russia in 1941, Britain and her Empire more or less stood alone against Germany. But for that these islands would have been invaded.

fundi

Odhinn wrote: »

...the vast majority of our emigrants wouldn't have had to leave in the first place.

So the British Empire was the reason so many Irish people had to emigrate in the past century, since independence?

James Brown

fundi wrote: »

In the 80 years following independence, millions of Irish people did emigrate to the evil, racist empire, and found it to be less evil and racist than the evil racist country they left behind.

They'd a choice though.
Have you ever lived there yourself?
Very broad sweeping anecdotal yak.

Plumbthedepths

fundi wrote: »

Not the point. Between Dunkirk in June 1940 and Hitlers declaration of war on Russia in 1941, Britain and her Empire more or less stood alone against Germany. But for that these islands would have been invaded.

Soz but you are spouting unsubstantiated bs.

Odhinn

fundi wrote: »

So the British Empire was the reason so many Irish people had to emigrate in the past century, since independence?

O look, a moving goalpost......



We never developed a proper economy under British rule, hence the high emmigration for many years after the departure. It's really our membership of the EU thats allowed us to grow after throwing off the shackles of colonial rule.


Earlier I posted

..but it was demonstrably those things in kenya, burma, aden, sudan, india and numerous other states for centuries, and even today (chagos islanders).

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112250138&postcount=2870


Do you accept that those countries, and the others in Africa, Asia and the middle east were run on a racist/sectarian basis?

James Brown

fundi wrote: »

Rubbish. Most of us Irish are very fair minded, but I pointed out to the poster that not everyone who emigrated to the UK , Oz, New Zealand, Canada etc found the British Empire to be "racist or evil", their words not mine.

People are generally decent where ever you go. What the poster stated is a historical fact based on the Empires actions everywhere it went.

James Brown

fundi wrote: »

We were talking about the 20th century. It might have been evil but if it was not for it, these islands would have fallen to Germany about 80 years ago. And if it were not for the British Empire the vast majority of our emigrants would not have had English speaking countries to emigrate to.

They had their arse handed to them by the Germans.

Boer concentration camps - 1899/1902

Jallianwala Bagh massacre - 1919

Partitioning of India - 1947

Mau Mau Uprising - 1951/1960

Famines in India - 1943

Talking about the Bengal famine in 1943, Churchill said: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html

So, if not for the Empire invading and occupying and making people speak English....people wouldn't have other places to go to where they spoke English. My word. I hope you are very young at least.