Work WhatsApp Group

Strumms · 02-01-2020 4:25pm

Dav010 wrote: »

There you go making up your own rules again.

Accrued annual leave is a statutory entitlement, when you take it most certainly is not, despite what you may think or want to believe. If you want AL tomorrow afternoon, then your employer is under no obligation to either give you it, nor to give you a valid reason as to why it is being refused. When AL is taken is at the discretion of your employer. That is why I would have thought the WhatsApp group may be useful, so that if you need time off on a particular day, a colleague can cover your shift.

Before this turns into 3 pages of back’n forth rubbish, please read this.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

No rules are being made up, it’s clear in black and white...

If an employer does not give you a reason why they are denying, when you deny an overtime request...deny them why too... “I have something on” will suffice... could be a dental appointment or sitting with the lads having a pint.. fûck em, if they are going to be that hard assed and inflexible, that works two ways.

dhaughton99 · 02-01-2020 4:26pm

NoDrama wrote: »

Most companies have Office365 accounts and should be using kaizala

Kaizala meets GDPR, ISO 27001, SOC1, HIPAA compliance requirements.

Using Facebook in the business is just wrong..

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

Strumms · 02-01-2020 4:30pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

Totally, last job I had a work mobile but at 6.30pm before I’ve got my coat on that gets switched off, so does mind to work issues. So they can have all the apps they want.

Mrs OBumble · 02-01-2020 4:42pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You shouldn't be obliged to expose your personal phone number to a large bunch of colleagues to request annual leave.

No.

But if you want to request annual leave at short notice, then in many workplaces the manager's default answer will, rightly, be "Nope, roster's already done" - unless you have arranged a replacement for yourself.

Arranging that replacement requires that you have some way to contact your colleagues. It's not unreasonable for colleagues who have chosen to be available for shift-swaps to share their contact details with each other. WhatsApp and it's ilk take a lot of pain out of such group communications.

I'd actually say that this is a case where shift-swap requests should be done on a group that's not owned or administered by the company - new hires are told about it, have the option to join if they want, but it's not used for official business.

'Cos when the company owns the group, the company can use it for other things, so the opt-in nature goes away.

Strumms · 02-01-2020 5:07pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No.

But if you want to request annual leave at short notice, then in many workplaces the manager's default answer will, rightly, be "Nope, roster's already done" - unless you have arranged a replacement for yourself..

How can you justify such a response, such as a manager turning down a request for annual leave based on the roster having been done ? If there are no other people off the leave should be granted. If I or whoever need to use one of my annual leave entitlements at short notice, which can happen for many reasons, unless there is something extraordinary happening in the business or somebody is already off it should be granted... them :“ohhh sorry I just can’t approve a holiday like that I’ll need to alter the task roster” ... Me : “that’s right, that’s because you are the manager and that’s your job”

Dav010 · 02-01-2020 5:40pm

Strumms wrote: »

No rules are being made up, it’s clear in black and white...

If an employer does not give you a reason why they are denying, when you deny an overtime request...deny them why too... “I have something on” will suffice... could be a dental appointment or sitting with the lads having a pint.. fûck em, if they are going to be that hard assed and inflexible, that works two ways.

God help me.

Where is it stated in black and white? I’ve just provided you with a link that states that AL dates are at the discretion of the employer.

An employee has never been obligated to give a reason why they won’t do overtime.

Please read the CA link before posting anymore rubbish.

AndrewJRenko · 02-01-2020 5:58pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

The crappy name and the fact that its a Microsoft product, which is jumping on a bandwagon, immediately turns me off.

If you're a Microsoft house, already using MS Office, it is far more likely to be acceptable than WhatsApp or any 3rd party solution.

Strumms · 02-01-2020 8:11pm

Dav010 wrote: »

God help me.

Where is it stated in black and white? I’ve just provided you with a link that states that AL dates are at the discretion of the employer.

An employee has never been obligated to give a reason why they won’t do overtime.

Please read the CA link before posting anymore rubbish.

I think god might have his work cut out with this type attitude in fairness.

AL.. discretion of employer sure, but if there is no reason given for denying that is especially unsat, if I want April 23-29 off inclusive and the request is denied, I’d expect as a professional courtesy to be informed as to why... a reply of just ‘denied’ is not going to be satisfactory. If I go home tell the other half “ denied, no clue as to why”... not good enough, not transparent, professional or fair... Above all being given a reason is a transparent way of ensuring fairness, which isn’t always a given in every job I can assure you.

Again, I was in a situation where I applied for a week off, it came back ‘denied, already some other employee has it booked’...I looked on the online spreadsheet to see who and the dates were showing free still, I naturally presumed that it just hadn’t been updated yet so said nada, about 10 days later checking again... nothing... so back to the boss to query.. “ohhh we are keeping the week free for Sean and his family, he is trying to get away but unsure if he can get the money together “

Me...: “ ok in August do I get to block book two weeks leave that I may or may not take, only to give them up last minute, so nobody else can use them, sorry, I’m not dealing with a colleague who is booking leave, but not booking leave, not knowing if they want a holiday, not knowing if they WILL go on a holiday”...

Eventually I got the time but before it was sorted it cost about 80 odd euros as the flights had gone up... just because some selfish fûckwit who didn’t know if he was going, wasn’t going, could go or couldn’t go...

Mrs OBumble · 02-01-2020 11:10pm

Strumms wrote: »

How can you justify such a response, such as a manager turning down a request for annual leave based on the roster having been done ? If there are no other people off the leave should be granted.

Strumms, I don't think you understand how the sort of workplace where people swap shifts operate. It's got nothing to do with "if no one else is off" - that sort of rule only applies in small-ish workplaces where everyone works at the same time.

Instead, in rostered workplaces, if you ask for this Sunday off at short notice, then someone else - who has already seen the roster and currently believes that they don't have to work on Sunday - has to work instead.

If you're sick or bereaved or your kid is in hospital - than as a manager, sure it's my responsibility to find someone to cover the shift. And if I can't convince any of the staff to do it, I'll likely end up having to work it myself (for no extra pay, btw, 'cos I'm on salary).

But if you want the day off because your mate has invited you to go fishing, or your team got drawn to play a match or whatever social reason you have ... nope, not my problem. You should have made the request before I did the roster. The only possibility is if you can find a colleague who's willing to swap, and they have suitable skills and their hourly rate won't kill my labour budget, then I'll say yes.

Strumms · 03-01-2020 12:00am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Strumms, I don't think you understand how the sort of workplace where people swap shifts operate. It's got nothing to do with "if no one else is off" - that sort of rule only applies in small-ish workplaces where everyone works at the same time.

Instead, in rostered workplaces, if you ask for this Sunday off at short notice, then someone else - who has already seen the roster and currently believes that they don't have to work on Sunday - has to work instead.

If you're sick or bereaved or your kid is in hospital - than as a manager, sure it's my responsibility to find someone to cover the shift. And if I can't convince any of the staff to do it, I'll likely end up having to work it myself (for no extra pay, btw, 'cos I'm on salary).

But if you want the day off because your mate has invited you to go fishing, or your team got drawn to play a match or whatever social reason you have ... nope, not my problem. You should have made the request before I did the roster. The only possibility is if you can find a colleague who's willing to swap, and they have suitable skills and their hourly rate won't kill my labour budget, then I'll say yes.

So basically there is zero cover built into the shifts... am I right ? As in tonight’s shift has 5 employees, one goes sick, you need someone in on OT to get the job done.... if I get holidays granted, you NEED a replacement from some other shift...?

I’ve worked in smallish teams but in situations where we could always loose an employee and while it’s a ball ache, the job gets done... a shift pattern whereby someone going awol through sick or a holiday or whatever means you automatically need cover just seems like it’s staffed too thinly...

mickdoocey · 03-01-2020 1:39am

I was added to my employers whatsapp group , found it really annoying so I left group and when asked why I had left I told them I damaged my phone and was getting a new one soon
insurance was covering it but would take time. kept fobbing them off and now it is not mentioned.
I really dislike this kind of thing, its invasive.

PonchoMcHoncho · 03-01-2020 1:48am

They set up one in work for us a while back and while useful for the team initially for what we were working on it quickly became an out of hours information feed for management where they asked for updates at all hours and on weekends and work life balance and the ability to switch off went out the window. Not long after weekend work and expected overtime started creeping in as people's personal time started to be seen as less personal. Its a slippery slope.

dreamers75 · 03-01-2020 1:52am

I have found my employees want to use whatsapp, I am not a fan but it does the job.

They kinda convinced me to use it as the Iphone Group message sucks absolute balls.

Each to their own I suppose, notices are still posted to the notice board and emailed to them should they be arsed reading emails.

Seems a lot of users here dont want to be informed of anything and choose to opt out, how would you like to be informed? Iphone group message sucks absolute balls.

Strumms · 03-01-2020 1:56am

dreamers75 wrote: »

Seems a lot of users here dont want to be informed of anything and choose to opt out, how would you like to be informed? Iphone group message sucks absolute balls.

You are confusing users who ‘don’t want to be informed’ with users who want this info through ‘proper company channels’ such as work email, work phone etc..

Esse85 · 03-01-2020 2:06am

Can you leave the group and then say you haven't a smart phone so can't receive WhatsApp.

Or you've no credit and no WiFi so you couldn't receive the messages due to no data.

Strumms · 03-01-2020 2:14am

Could leave, block and just say you have an issue with the app... that might be not workable however if you have work friends personal number on WhatsApp who might blab..

GarIT · 03-01-2020 2:21am

I'm in a few groups, have them all muted, notifications still show up, just silently rather than no notifications at all. I sometimes read them out of work, sometimes don't bother, never reply. I've seen panicked questions asking how to fix something that's affecting hundreds of customers, known it was a simple fix that probably only I know because it is something I was working on and scrolled past not giving a **** because I'm not on the clock.

I don't work outside work, but I'll laugh at the memes and read the articles related to whatever we were talking about during the day.

Strumms · 03-01-2020 3:40am

One issue could also be...far as I know with WhatsApp...if you disable the ‘read receipt’ it only disables for one to one conversations and not group chats....

So you’d have some fûckwit boss saying... “Jesus, Gary read that message Gerry sent about not having the passwords for abc programme, you’d think he’d have replied, jeeez.... then bosss “Gary, if you are reading this (he knows you are) could you help Gerry here for a sec please”...

Starts as a one off, then becomes a norm, where a couple of times a week you are being hit up at home for an opinion, to troubleshoot xyz etc.. you are always contactable...so always ON... but not getting paid to be and not wanting to be...

That’s not satisfactory. If I’m at home and my phone is beeping, vibrating, ringing... whatever, unless it’s a friend, family member or something socially related I don’t want to know... work is for working hours, you want me to be on call ? You put it in the job description AND you pay me an on call rate... I’m not at your beck and call no matter if you are CEO... get of my phone screen and out of my personal life....thanks !

yerwanthere123 · 03-01-2020 4:15am

One of these groups was started for my work roster inside the last 12 months. I work in hospitality so you can imagine the kind of sh*t that's posted in it. Messages on my days off about rubbish being in the wrong bins, too many glasses being broken and a teapot going missing, with a threat of checking the CCTV unless someone came forward to declare where they think the missing teapot might be (!). It's intrusive, invasive and I've actually noticed my anxiety levels have increased since the group was started. Have the group muted now but it's still not enough knowing it's there on my phone. Obviously want to leave it but afraid of any potential consequences, work with a manager who'd have no problem trimming hours in response to any such moves.

Strumms · 03-01-2020 4:55am

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

One of these groups was started for my work roster inside the last 12 months. I work in hospitality so you can imagine the kind of sh*t that's posted in it. Messages on my days off about rubbish being in the wrong bins, too many glasses being broken and a teapot going missing, with a threat of checking the CCTV unless someone came forward to declare where they think the missing teapot might be (!). It's intrusive, invasive and I've actually noticed my anxiety levels have increased since the group was started. Have the group muted now but it's still not enough knowing it's there on my phone. Obviously want to leave it but afraid of any potential consequences, work with a manager who'd have no problem trimming hours in response to any such moves.

This ^^^

Precisely why you should never entertain being involved in work business / being contactable on your social media apps,. Work/life balance isn’t just about the hours you are at work it’s about the quality time away from it to focus on yourself, your family and loved ones, to relax, without work ‘distractions’ or ‘interruptions’ not giving the slightest fûck about missing teapots, missing laptops, who ate all the rich tea biscuits or whatever... you don’t care unless you are there and being paid to care...end of..

yerwanthere123 · 03-01-2020 4:59am

Strumms wrote: »

This ^^^

Precisely why you should never entertain being involved in work business / being contactable on your social media apps,. Work/life balance isn’t just about the hours you are at work it’s about the quality time away from it to focus on yourself, your family and loved ones, to relax, without work ‘distractions’ or ‘interruptions’ not giving the slightest fûck about missing teapots, missing laptops, who ate all the rich tea biscuits or whatever... you don’t care unless you are there and being paid to care...end of..

Agree 100%. Didn't ask to be included in one, just logged on to whatsapp one day to see I was now part of a work group set up by my manager. Someone left it and was immediately re-added because "you can't leave, it's for work".

Strumms · 03-01-2020 5:19am

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Agree 100%. Didn't ask to be included in one, just logged on to whatsapp one day to see I was now part of a work group set up by my manager. Someone left it and was immediately re-added because "you can't leave, it's for work".

id repeatedly delete myself then block.... there is a rather long winded way around it which is blocking each and every person from WhatsApp so not ideal..I’d be emailing management in quite a forceful tone... “if you want me contactable outside of the office email / telephone I want to be given a work mobile”, note you are saying outside of office telephone not outside working hours... if you get one, switch it off getting out of there.... daily... but INSTRUCT them... “delete my personal phone from the ‘work’ WhatsApp group...

Work and personal life are always separate... actually leave the job the managers sound like a bunch of grade A cûnts...

Esse85 · 03-01-2020 8:41am

I'd be cautious about getting a work phone, I'd certainly not request one.
It only encourages employers/customers to think your accessible 24/7

F1ngers · 03-01-2020 8:50am

Esse85 wrote: »

I'd be cautious about getting a work phone, I'd certainly not request one.
It only encourages employers/customers to think your accessible 24/7

Nope, I have a work phone, turn it off on the way out of work and only turn it back on when I return to work.

Esse85 · 03-01-2020 8:54am

F1ngers wrote: »

Nope, I have a work phone, turn it off on the way out of work and only turn it back on when I return to work.

What's the nope for?

What you mentioned there is not the expectation of having a work phone.

The OP is better off resisting being issued a work phone, otherwise the expectations on him to engage with whatsapp texts out of working hours will only increase.

GarIT · 03-01-2020 11:13am

Strumms wrote: »

One issue could also be...far as I know with WhatsApp...if you disable the ‘read receipt’ it only disables for one to one conversations and not group chats....

So you’d have some fûckwit boss saying... “Jesus, Gary read that message Gerry sent about not having the passwords for abc programme, you’d think he’d have replied, jeeez.... then bosss “Gary, if you are reading this (he knows you are) could you help Gerry here for a sec please”...

Starts as a one off, then becomes a norm, where a couple of times a week you are being hit up at home for an opinion, to troubleshoot xyz etc.. you are always contactable...so always ON... but not getting paid to be and not wanting to be...

That’s not satisfactory. If I’m at home and my phone is beeping, vibrating, ringing... whatever, unless it’s a friend, family member or something socially related I don’t want to know... work is for working hours, you want me to be on call ? You put it in the job description AND you pay me an on call rate... I’m not at your beck and call no matter if you are CEO... get of my phone screen and out of my personal life....thanks !

You're not far off the real situation. We have on call as an option. I wasn't happy with the offered pay so didn't opt in. That's why I make a point of not answering.

If you have the notifications display silently (you can also expand notifications to 4 lines of content) you can read the message in your notifications without it being marked as read. Even if it does get marked as read, I don't care, it's not my problem. If there is any issue "I'm not on call" ends it.

Our group is more social at least, nobody more senior then us and it's mostly about where we are going for lunch, terrible puns, memes, and for sharing links to things we were talking about.

Strumms · 03-01-2020 1:35pm

Esse85 wrote: »

What's the nope for?

What you mentioned there is not the expectation of having a work phone.

The OP is better off resisting being issued a work phone, otherwise the expectations on him to engage with whatsapp texts out of working hours will only increase.

They wont increase I dont feel, because their last paid act of the day is to either turn off the phone as they exit the building or if leaving it on, it’s on silent and in a drawer... their boss the following day ask.. “hey, did you see the messages from xyz about the manufacturing delays and delivery schedule?”... the answer.. “ I did, but only now, I generally don’t check the phone when I’m not working, I don’t check the phone when I’m not being paid to, my time outside work... when I don’t get paid is spent on my family, friends and the enjoyment of life... its great to have the work mobile, it’s filtering out the stress and hassle that I’d come to experience on my personal phone being bombarded with work issues both during working hours and outside.... I want to keep it that way, I’m contracted for 40 hours, I’m here available and working hard for that duration, if you need me outside of that time you need to ask, if I am we can come to an arrangement regarding extra payment, a reminder... work ends at xxx time, as hard as i work here, I certainly value my r&r away from here, with family and friends first and foremost.... that line will never be blurred, thanks for understanding.”

mrmorgan · 03-01-2020 3:25pm

arrianalexander wrote: »

I didn't realize that until now, I have now changed this in.my WhatsApp , thanks

how do u do this? I can only seem to set it for people that aren't in my contacts.

also, I'm in a work one also, but have a work phone. it can be annoying, but have it on mute and only post when I need to.

u140acro3xs7dm · 03-01-2020 3:53pm

Leave the group, it's a sure path to burnout. Even if you mute the group, every time that you check a message from a friend, you are going to see that group there, you will always be in the work zone. Employers want you available all the time, I spent years doing it, and it nearly killed me. Checking emails last thing at night, up a couple of hours before I needed to, knowing my phone would have emails on it that needed to be actioned.

No job is worth it, but the more employees play along, the more employers are going to try and take from your personal life. If you hand your notice in tomorrow, you'll be replaced in no time, and they'll try the same with the next person. Unless your job has a direct impact in people living or dying, work should only contact you in a state of emergency.

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