WandaVision - Disney+ (***Spoilers***)

GSPfan

I think it’s pretty certain that the rabbit is not a rabbit. I’m not saying it’s a person, but it could easily be a snake or something. Changing one animal into another and then having the rabbit devour it was some not so subtle hinting.

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Also, anyone else suspicious of the rabbit? Sort of feel like he's a character in disguise.... I may be losing it..

My guess possible comic book spoilers

I am pretty sure Agatha's son in the comics was Nicholas Scratch (rabbit in wandavision is called senor scratchy) he had magic powers so I guess that could be him, he used to fight the fantastic 4

kerplun k

Going into the last episode I think they had too many red hearings in this.

There’s too many lose ends to tie up. It’s gonna be a big task to close everything out satisfyingly with about 40m of storytelling left.

gmisk

kerplun k wrote: »

Going into the last episode I think they had too many red hearings in this.

There’s too many lose ends to tie up. It’s gonna be a big task to close everything out satisfyingly with about 40m of storytelling left.

Rumour has it that it will be 50 minutes.
They have done a great job up til now imo so let's see!

Insect Overlord

kerplun k wrote: »

Going into the last episode I think they had too many red hearings in this.

There’s too many lose ends to tie up. It’s gonna be a big task to close everything out satisfyingly with about 40m of storytelling left.

I wonder if they might deliberately leave some loose ends untied. That could be the hook to get people looking forward to the next few films. I'm sure they'll cover all the most important angles, but some mysteries could be kept.

pjohnson

GSPfan wrote: »

I don’t want Fox’s Quicksilver in the MCU but it would be cool if they acknowledged that this version of him was pulled in from a multiverse version of Pietro. I still think it might happen.

Similar to the JK Simmons being a J Jonah Jameson in the MCU was what most thought. It doesnt necessarily make Sony-verse JJJ cannon and that therefore Maguire's version is the same as Hollands version. Or mean that Jameson is a time traveller.

If Peters is REALLY just John Doe Quicksilver it's a pointless clickbait casting that has needlessly pìssed off X-Men fans. Hell the earlier rumors of Evan Peters actually playing Mephisto wouldn't have been near as badly recieved as trolling Peters as a Quicksilver for near half a season.

Foxtrol

iguana wrote: »

I was kind of disappointed by this episode. I felt that it totally did away with the best twists in the previous episodes like Fox universe Pietro and it being "Agatha All Along." Fox universe Pietro appearing was the first main introduction of the multiverse, which we know is coming. I grew up as an enormous X-Men comic fan and I hated the Fox X-Men movies. But I loved the twist of Evan Peters appearing as Pietro. I never took it to be a sign that the X-Men coming to the MCU would in any way be the Fox X-Men just an acknowledgement that those movies existed and the Pietro was the one character who'd appeared in both. If he's really just a random Westview resident that Agatha cast a spell on to think he was Pietro, that's extremely disappointing.

As mentioned by someone else, the random resident angle doesn't explain his powers. They've also start ticking off some of the earlier adverts in that episode, I doubt they never touch on Nexus. If they confirm that it is just a random resident then it kills X-Men multiverse cross-over, which would be my preference.

This episode also spoiled last weeks reveal about Agatha. It wasn't her all along. She had nothing to do with any of it and is just as clueless as anyone. I always like Agatha, from her first days as Franklin Richards' nanny, so I'm happy for her not to be a villain. But that she's just a clueless witch who 'all along' was just bumbling about trying to find out what was going on, is also disappointing.

This seems more like you took a huge jump of what 'all along' meant. They even gave a montage of her actions, that didn't include her creating the Hex. What she was 'all along' involved in was causing everything that was going wrong for Wanda in the Hex, resulting in her to become more and more isolated from Vision so Agatha could see how it would impact the Hex and get her away from Vision.

This episode also just goes reverts to backing up what we saw from the end of episode two, Wanda is responsible for everything happening in Westview because she is grieving.

Presumably next week, we'll find out that's not actually true and Hayward somehow engineered the whole thing. He was clearly needling her by showing her Vision being dismantled as he wanted her to resurrect him. He even told her that she had the power to do that and was watching her with anticipation as she took in the view of him in pieces. I'm assuming that he was responsible for putting the deed to the plot for the house in Westview in her car and when she arrived some external force he arranged/knew about triggered her to hex the whole town. So presumably next week, things will get more complex again but this week really took the complexity that had been building up and wiped a lot of it away.

Isn't this what all mystery shows do to the audience, twisting them back and forth? They pointed to grief and then that Wanda might be doing it maliciously, despite how much it was hurting others, now they show she didn't have anything to do with it and in some cases the residents seem happier than their life before. Hayward doing more bad stuff wouldn't be a shock at all

As far as taking away mystery or complexity, they still have an enormous amount to cover in the last episode (or last two if rumours are true). It would be crazy to not start to narrow down some angles.

Foxtrol

Zardoz wrote: »

The best episode of the series by a distance.

They could have made 2 episodes out of that content and cut one or 2 of the earlier goofball sitcom episodes.

Similar to the Agatha reveal last week, I simply don't see how this episode hits without the earlier episodes to build out the story. It only worked so well because we saw her and Vision happily living out their sitcom lives, it wouldn't have been the same if everything went to crap on day 1. You need to earn good reveals.

Sakana

So Dome Vision is just a conjuration that gained independent thought?

paulbok

Beginning to think we may have over-thought the plot in this. Might not be the clever introduction of the x-men /F4 /mephisto many of us believed during the last few weeks.

Just as likely that Agatha is the big bad, that all the magic types mixing has just got out of hand and the only "big" appearance will be Dr Strange appearing to try and clean up the mess, with the finale or end credit scene briefly setting up/hinting at the multiverse of madness or another Marvel show.

kerplun k

paulbok wrote: »

Beginning to think we may have over-thought the plot in this. Might not be the clever introduction of the x-men /F4 /mephisto many of us believed during the last few weeks.

Just as likely that Agatha is the big bad, that all the magic types mixing has just got out of hand and the only "big" appearance will be Dr Strange appearing to try and clean up the mess, with the finale or end credit scene briefly setting up/hinting at the multiverse of madness or another Marvel show.

Agree with this.
TBF, They left so many bread crumbs and red hearings, it wasn't peoples fault for over thinking things.

Its gonna be impossible to answer all those lingering questions in the final. The casting of Evan Peters as Pietro looks like it was just a big troll move.

joficeduns1

There was so much speculation overall it'd have been a clusterf*ck to wrap it all up. That being said, there was legitimate threads being shown by Marvel, which I'm sure will payoff eventually.

I hope we get some payoff for Pietro, I don't believe Marvel would use that actor with that character as a troll move.

Fingers crossed for a strange appearance tomorrow. 😇

Busi_Girl08

See the thing is, *should we* be expecting things to be wrapped up? We can only assume something huge is going to be revealed tomorrow which will have huge ramifications for the MCU into the future. We're not going to get a neatly tied up ending, not for everything anyway.

Penn

I really disagree with the idea that casting Evan Peters as Fake Pietro was a troll move. There was never any indication whatsoever that he was actually the Fox version of Pietro, and straight off the bat Darcy said "She recast Pietro?"

It's a nod, a wink, a reference. It's a fan-service joke that we as the audience get, but just because people choose to read too much into it and it ends up not meaning what they presumed it did doesn't make it "trolling".

Agent Coulson

He was only cast for the Kick Ass joke

Zardoz

Foxtrol wrote: »

Similar to the Agatha reveal last week, I simply don't see how this episode hits without the earlier episodes to build out the story. It only worked so well because we saw her and Vision happily living out their sitcom lives, it wouldn't have been the same if everything went to crap on day 1. You need to earn good reveals.

The first 3 episodes were sitcom filler.
You could easily have scrapped 1 of those and still had the same emotional impact.

Foxtrol

Penn wrote: »

I really disagree with the idea that casting Evan Peters as Fake Pietro was a troll move. There was never any indication whatsoever that he was actually the Fox version of Pietro, and straight off the bat Darcy said "She recast Pietro?"

It's a nod, a wink, a reference. It's a fan-service joke that we as the audience get, but just because people choose to read too much into it and it ends up not meaning what they presumed it did doesn't make it "trolling".

If it ends up being nothing it points to them having decided to kill the theory that the Fox X-Men universe characters being in their 'multiverse' and that they could at some point come over to the MCU. That alone makes it more than a pure troll.

That however doesn't align with all the rumours regarding the upcoming Spider-man bringing back old characters. Wandavision also advertising the Nexus and having Pietro there is a bit too coincidental for my liking.

FunLover18

Foxtrol wrote: »

If it ends up being nothing it points to them having decided to kill the theory that the Fox X-Men universe characters being in their 'multiverse' and that they could at some point come over to the MCU. That alone makes it more than a pure troll.

That however doesn't align with all the rumours regarding the upcoming Spider-man bringing back old characters. Wandavision also advertising the Nexus and having Pietro there is a bit too coincidental for my liking.

Spider-Man is a separate beast though because it's owned and made by Sony in conjunction with Marvel. Sony already have the Spider-Verse and the casting rumours reek of Sony decision making, they've wanted their own Spider-Man cinematic universe since before the initial deal with Marvel, the AG movies were heavily setting up a Sinister Six spinoff that going to be written by Drew Goddard iirc and they had even announced plans for a Black Cat and a Silver Sable movie.

Foxtrol

Zardoz wrote: »

The first 3 episodes were sitcom filler.
You could easily have scrapped 1 of those and still had the same emotional impact.

In the 3rd episode they introduced 2 well known and key characters, who may continue in the MCU, and also broke the bubble of what was happening outside the Hex. That is hardly filler.

You're entitled to not enjoy it but if you don't have the patience for 2 episodes of character and world building, totaling less than an hour of viewing and each including several moments that provide payoffs later, then a lot of TV simply isn't for you.

Mr.Nice Guy

Penn wrote: »

I really disagree with the idea that casting Evan Peters as Fake Pietro was a troll move. There was never any indication whatsoever that he was actually the Fox version of Pietro, and straight off the bat Darcy said "She recast Pietro?"

It's a nod, a wink, a reference. It's a fan-service joke that we as the audience get, but just because people choose to read too much into it and it ends up not meaning what they presumed it did doesn't make it "trolling".

To me this just reads like a defence for what would be a blatant bait-and-switch to their audience. They knew what they were doing when they did it. If by taking this approach, their finale fizzles out like a wet fart, then they have to own the consequences of promising much and delivering little. Wagging a finger at the fans and saying 'it's your fault for getting your hopes up' won't wash.

Foxtrol

FunLover18 wrote: »

Spider-Man is a separate beast though because it's owned and made by Sony in conjunction with Marvel. Sony already have the Spider-Verse and the casting rumours reek of Sony decision making, they've wanted their own Spider-Man cinematic universe since before the initial deal with Marvel, the AG movies were heavily setting up a Sinister Six spinoff that going to be written by Drew Goddard iirc and they had even announced plans for a Black Cat and a Silver Sable movie.

I do get those significant differences, however the MCU has for the most part been built in a very consistent way that is relatively easy to understand by the audience. I just don't see them trying to sell both:

- All the stuff that happened in other Spider-Man movies produced by another studio that they don't have the rights to happened in their wider MCU multi-verse
- Nothing that happened in other X-Men movies produced by another studio that they now have the rights to happened in their wider MCU multi-verse

I especially don't see them doing the above while also inserting an X-Men character as Pietro into Wandavision as just a throwaway nod to the audience - making things even more confusing.

I really want the old X-Men universe to stay dead but at this point from going off previous MCU approaches I'm not confident

Zardoz

Foxtrol wrote: »

In the 3rd episode they introduced 2 well known and key characters, who may continue in the MCU, and also broke the bubble of what was happening outside the Hex. That is hardly filler.

You're entitled to not enjoy it but if you don't have the patience for 2 episodes of character and world building, totaling less than an hour of viewing and each including several moments that provide payoffs later, then a lot of TV simply isn't for you.

Less of the condescending attitude please, I have plenty of patience and like slow burning shows especially dark gritty ones.

The first 3 episodes aped every sitcom cliche, but had genuine fun with almost none of them, and weren't in any way funny.
It was genre-surfing as a sort of filler, a sketch that lasts half an hour but without any laughs, just to get to the few hints in each episode as to what really is going on.

FunLover18

Foxtrol wrote: »

I do get those significant differences, however the MCU has for the most part been built in a very consistent way that is relatively easy to understand by the audience. I just don't see them trying to sell both:

- All the stuff that happened in other Spider-Man movies produced by another studio that they don't have the rights to happened in their wider MCU multi-verse
- Nothing that happened in other X-Men movies produced by another studio that they now have the rights to happened in their wider MCU multi-verse

I especially don't see them doing the above while also inserting an X-Men character as Pietro into Wandavision as just a throwaway nod to the audience - making things even more confusing.

I really want the old X-Men universe to stay dead but at this point from going off previous MCU approaches I'm not confident

The Pietro thing is interesting though because this is the first time we've had a recast of a character who had appeared in another franchise. We hadn't seen Rhodey before anywhere else.

Feige has said that we won't see X-Men in the MCU for a few years, we know and can guess he's a meticulous planner and has the next few years worked out which is why I'm loathe to believe that they would just pull a Fox franchise character over like this.

A possibility I haven't seen considered is that ATJ just didn't want to come back or couldn't come back due to other commitments. I think regardless of who played him Pietro is intrinsic was intrinsic to Agatha's plan which would mean they'd have to recast him anyway so why not do it with a wink. I suspect if they had got someone else there would undoubtedly be fans saying how funny/cool it would have been if they'd got Peters.

As regard the Spider-Verse, as I said I think that is largely coming from Sony. This is the last fillm in their deal with Marvel and it's also the last film in Holland's contract. I've seen people speculate that the title No Way Home could suggest the movie ends with Holland's Parker trapped in another universe which would allow Sony to do their crappy Sinister Six and Morbius films without it impacting the MCU. Just a theory.

Penn

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

To me this just reads like a defence for what would be a blatant bait-and-switch to their audience. They knew what they were doing when they did it. If by taking this approach, their finale fizzles out like a wet fart, then they have to own the consequences of promising much and delivering little. Wagging a finger at the fans and saying 'it's your fault for getting your hopes up' won't wash.

But they promised nothing. Like I said, straight away they threw in the line about recasting Pietro to tie in with the TV format of the show but also I think to make clear this wasn't the actual Fox version of Pietro. They in no way tried to link Fake Pietro to the Fox version of the character. He was still Wanda's brother from Sokovia who died fighting Ultron.

pjohnson

If the MCU wanted a brand new Pietro theres literally hundreds of actors they could choose. Just off the top of my head Grant Gustin (Arrowverse Flash), Ezra Miller (DCU Flash) would be amusing 4th Wall breaking winks regarding speedsters.

Not casting Evan Peters would NOT have been seen as an odd choice and rather just immediately distancing from any possible links to the Fox-version. By specifically choosing arguably the most recognisable actor from the recent Fox-Verse movies (Peters*) whose character (Quicksilver) was responsible for the two standout scenes in two Fox Movies to play another character called Quicksilver and NOT expect fans to think there is a connection is hilarious.

Especially considering Mavel now owns the X-Men again. If they didn't own them then they might get away with casting him as a "New" Pietro since mutants wouldn't be possible. But yeah they knew exactly what they were doing.

Heck, they could have even cast Peters as Mephisto (an early "leak" claimed that was the case) and no one would have been trying to link MCU Mephisto to Fox Quicksilver. He could even still make quips/quote his Fox character and people would see it as being a wink and nod.

There was plenty of avenues that wasnt just trolling the fanbase for both a "new" Pietro and casting Evan Peters. They picked the ONE that would inevitably annoy a large part of the fanbase. It worked in that it raised up a lot of attention for the show and clickbait but it was a shítty stunt.



*I say Peters is the most recognisable because I highly doubt Fassbender, MacAvoy or Lawrence would be gettable budget-wise.

Foxtrol

Zardoz wrote: »

Less of the condescending attitude please, I have plenty of patience and like slow burning shows especially dark gritty ones.

The first 3 episodes aped every sitcom cliche, but had genuine fun with almost none of them, and weren't in any way funny.
It was genre-surfing as a sort of filler, a sketch that lasts half an hour but without any laughs, just to get to the few hints in each episode as to what really is going on.

What you call condescending, I call stating facts.

They explained clearly in the last episode why the early episodes aped sitcoms and it is pretty obvious at this point that their priority was to mimic as close as possible the comedy style of the period - not to garner laughs or be 'fun'. From what we now know, if anything the initial episodes are even more unsettling as nearly everyone was being forced to do it against their will.

I've lost count of the times on this thread that I've had said this, not liking something does not make it 'filler'. The fact that you continue to claim the 3rd episode was 'filler' is a clear example of you not being able to tell the difference.

Foxtrol

pjohnson wrote: »

If the MCU wanted a brand new Pietro theres literally hundreds of actors they could choose. Just off the top of my head Grant Gustin (Arrowverse Flash), Ezra Miller (DCU Flash) would be amusing 4th Wall breaking winks regarding speedsters.

Not casting Evan Peters would NOT have been seen as an odd choice and rather just immediately distancing from any possible links to the Fox-version. By specifically choosing arguably the most recognisable actor from the recent Fox-Verse movies (Peters*) whose character (Quicksilver) was responsible for the two standout scenes in two Fox Movies to play another character called Quicksilver and NOT expect fans to think there is a connection is hilarious.

Especially considering Mavel now owns the X-Men again. If they didn't own them then they might get away with casting him as a "New" Pietro since mutants wouldn't be possible. But yeah they knew exactly what they were doing.

Heck, they could have even cast Peters as Mephisto (an early "leak" claimed that was the case) and no one would have been trying to link MCU Mephisto to Fox Quicksilver. He could even still make quips/quote his Fox character and people would see it as being a wink and nod.

There was plenty of avenues that wasnt just trolling the fanbase for both a "new" Pietro and casting Evan Peters. They picked the ONE that would inevitably annoy a large part of the fanbase. It worked in that it raised up a lot of attention for the show and clickbait but it was a shítty stunt.

*I say Peters is the most recognisable because I highly doubt Fassbender, MacAvoy or Lawrence would be gettable budget-wise.

At this point we have no idea if there is a connection or not so I don't know how you're so adamant regarding 'trolling'. You're getting frustrated about a theory that may or may not be right.

pjohnson

Anywho pre-finale spec.

Someone pointed out that post-credit scene that "Vision" looked at his left hand when he came around.

Ultrons last body was missing its left arm when Vision destroyed him in the forest (a severely under-rated MCU scene imo).

Leading some to wonder if the various Magicks in play have ended up now accidentally reviving Ultron back into to the MCU to pop up again at a later date if desired (or even in the finale tonight as a threat before fleeing using the broadcast waves into the wilds of the MCU). He recruited the Maximoffs to aid him, killed Pietro and was a "brother" to Vision so people are preparing for his appearance.


I think its a bit too far fetched personally but a cool idea that was pieced together lol.

FunLover18

As I said before, it's the new Mandarin controversy.

I enjoyed his appearance and performance regardless of how it turns out. If you're annoyed by it there's little I or anyone can do to convince you otherwise.

joficeduns1

I think Pietro has to be a multiverse version of Quicksilver. Not necessarily Fox's, but probably. He obviously has an understanding of his powers (something the twins had to learn about and no other Westview civilian has), superheroes (his questioning/astonishment of Wanda's ability), his back story about gunshots and then ending up in Westview. The big questions are

a. How he got there?
b. How is Agatha manipulating him?
c. Will he (can he even?) stick around after the Hex presumably falls?

I could be completely wrong, and if I am I'd expect Marvel to pull it off somehow. They've rarely taken a wrong foot, and certainly nothing of this scale.

The question I have myself is was ATJ's Quicksilver's power his own? Or was he supplemented by Wanda? Because if that's the case, she could be powering New Pietro subconsciously. Pure speculation.