WandaVision - Disney+ (***Spoilers***)

Foxtrol

pjohnson wrote: »

I saw a few X-Fans on twitter/reddit now lamenting the fact that X-Men are under Marvel and now just dick jokes and cosplay when it comes to Feige. A shame since pre-buyout there had been two good Mutant shows. A large portion now seem to have reduced expectations to something probably worse than Inhumans and are just going back to the current X-Comics rennaisance for pleasure.

Fans of mutants now have no expectation so cant be dissapointed. I guess thats a win, although they similarly arent interested in Falcon & WS anymore since they assume the "Madripoor" leak is just more trolling so thats not great. And expectations for actually doing a proper Deadpool movie also reduced.


It cost Fox a lot of money to beat the expectations to zero, this was cheaper :pac:

To me that is simply a crazy of being overdramatic from those fans. MCU in general builds their world slowly and methodically and Feige had even come out saying they wouldn't be diving into mutants.

The Fox X-Universe had some bright spots but it was a complete mess continuity wise. I get fans wanting another hit of characters they love but surely they should have trust in how MCU built out the characters they had rights to and then perfectly incorporated a new Spider-Man, who is widely adored.

The build up MCU do has so far always been worth it, so if expectations of those fans is now down to normal levels then they'll likely love where it takes them.

I still feel they'll go the route of slowly 'seeding' mutant characters into other properties before any sort of Mutant standalone movie (e.g., Storm in BP2, Rogue in CM 2), I'm now not sure if they'll have a big bang event that we'll see to cause the mutants appearing, like Wanda, or else rely on something that has already happened, like the multiple snaps on earth.

kerplun k

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

Insect Overlord

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

Oh. How awfully pessimistic.

pjohnson

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Oh. How awfully pessimistic.

Meh. People got burned expecting great world building/relevant things from this. Cant blame them for not making same mistakes again tbf.

The shows will probably develop the leads quite well like Wandavision did. It revived Vision and got Wanda transformed to Scarlet Witch.

Absolutely no point bothering to look any deeper or fall for the clickbait seeds. Just take it at face value only and move on.

pjohnson

Foxtrol wrote: »

To me that is simply a crazy of being overdramatic from those fans. MCU in general builds their world slowly and methodically and Feige had even come out saying they wouldn't be diving into mutants.

The Fox X-Universe had some bright spots but it was a complete mess continuity wise. I get fans wanting another hit of characters they love but surely they should have trust in how MCU built out the characters they had rights to and then perfectly incorporated a new Spider-Man, who is widely adored.

The build up MCU do has so far always been worth it, so if expectations of those fans is now down to normal levels then they'll likely love where it takes them.

I still feel they'll go the route of slowly 'seeding' mutant characters into other properties before any sort of Mutant standalone movie (e.g., Storm in BP2, Rogue in CM 2), I'm now not sure if they'll have a big bang event that we'll see to cause the mutants appearing, like Wanda, or else rely on something that has already happened, like the multiple snaps on earth.

The MCU didn't have Andrew Garfield as a cosplayer dressed as SpiderMan swinging around the place only to then reveal its actually just Phil Dicks all along.

kerplun k

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Oh. How awfully pessimistic.

Fool me once....

Penn

pjohnson wrote: »

The MCU didn't have Andrew Garfield as a cosplayer dressed as SpiderMan swinging around the place only to then reveal its actually just Phil Dicks all along.

That'd still be better than The Amazing Spider-Man 2...

klose

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

I'm not so sure, Wanda has went from a B tier avenger to one of the strongest in the catalogue over the course of this show, assuming if her next appearance is doctor strange and you have not watched the show you'd be rightly confused by her change.

On that topic, I wonder will there some sort of recap or flashback sequence to fill in cinema goers who have not viewed any of the disney plus series as to why characters such as Wanda have developed?

beakerjoe

pjohnson wrote: »

The MCU didn't have Andrew Garfield as a cosplayer dressed as SpiderMan swinging around the place only to then reveal its actually just Phil Dicks all along.

Was it that bad though. I took ut as a more of a clever nod than a big FU. I liked it, it didnt spoil the show for me at all.

Marvel did a fine job building phase 1 to 3. Look at the first few movies and hiw they ended up with Endgame. Slow, forward planning. To insert Xmen now would be a huge shoehorn.

Havent got great expectations for the next show, which is down to my lack of love for Falcon and WS rather than how this show went. In anything, WandaVision has reminded me I should trust Marvel to do a good job.

FunLover18

Foxtrol wrote: »

I see the villains very differently. I believe the whole point was not to have an obvious 'big bad' because they wanted it to be unclear to the audience whether it was Wanda or not. It worked that the villains were as much of a loss as what was going on as we were and were kind of dealing things on the fly.

I enjoyed that approach far more than the normal knowing who the bad guy is going to be from the first episode or two and then learning their complicated plan as the season goes on.

I didn't mind not knowing who the villain is either and having a slow build up and reveal but the reveal here was that the villains were almost as clueless as we were which for me detracted from their threat and neither of them really had a plan at all. Like thinking about it, did Agatha even need to be a villain, could she not have been revealed to be a older wiser witch who saw a younger grieving witch who couldn't control her powers, that could have been far more interesting.

I need to rewatch the series as a whole to see how things for together but it does feel a bit like they needed a villain for Wanda to fight.

Coybig_

3 Episodes in and it's very hard viewing.

From the first minute of episode 1 you know that something isn't right, but the tiny reveal or 'glitch in the matrix' in each of the first 3 episodes just confirms that, yes, something isn't right. Writers, we know this. You need to give us a little bit more! Yes the third one has a bigger 'glitch' but it still fills 90-95 percent of the episode with sitcom.

As a standalone episode I have no problem with the sitcom approach - Mr.Robot (one of my favourite shows) did this in Season 2, but it was just 1 episode rather than the 3 (so far).

99% of it is just this irrelevant sitcom that doesn't really develop the characters in any way whatsoever. Very little actual substance.

As a show it seems to rely on the fact that it has a huge existing fanbase with the expectation that they need to watch each offering to know where the universe stands going into the next property. Thus it feels comfortable offering very little, because it doesn't feel pressured to keep the viewer interested.

I'll keep going reluctantly just so I'm up to date going into the next show or movie, but Marvel seem to be having so many more misses than hits recently that the goodwill that they build up is fading. They had an almost uninterrupted run of very good to great films in Phase 3, from Civil War all the way to Infinity War (Dr Strange being the lone outlier). Since the brilliance of Infinity War - Ant Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, Endgame and Spiderman Far from Home were all (in my opinion) at best below average.

Hopefully this picks up.

AlmightyCushion

Coybig_ wrote: »

3 Episodes in and it's very hard viewing.

From the first minute of episode 1 you know that something isn't right, but the tiny reveal or 'glitch in the matrix' in each of the first 3 episodes just confirms that, yes, something isn't right. Writers, we know this. You need to give us a little bit more! Yes the third one has a bigger 'glitch' but it still fills 90-95 percent of the episode with sitcom.

As a standalone episode I have no problem with the sitcom approach - Mr.Robot (one of my favourite shows) did this in Season 2, but it was just 1 episode rather than the 3 (so far).

99% of it is just this irrelevant sitcom that doesn't really develop the characters in any way whatsoever. Very little actual substance.

As a show it seems to rely on the fact that it has a huge existing fanbase with the expectation that they need to watch each offering to know where the universe stands going into the next property. Thus it feels comfortable offering very little, because it doesn't feel pressured to keep the viewer interested.

I'll keep going reluctantly just so I'm up to date going into the next show or movie, but Marvel seem to be having so many more misses than hits recently that the goodwill that they build up is fading. They had an almost uninterrupted run of very good to great films in Phase 3, from Civil War all the way to Infinity War (Dr Strange being the lone outlier). Since the brilliance of Infinity War - Ant Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, Endgame and Spiderman Far from Home were all (in my opinion) at best below average.

Hopefully this picks up.

Stick with it. The sitcom bits take a big backseat from here. They are still in some episodes and they still aren't funny but they make up much less runtime of the episodes they are in.

wes

I enjoyed the show overall, with the exception of the whole Quicksilver thing, that was pure trolling, and I remember thinking that they would piss people off, if they went in the direction of trolling people.

Now with that exception out of the way, it was a fun show. Wanda's grief and her at least initially unintentionally lashing out and hurting people in Westview was an interesting way to go, as opposed to her being controlled by someone else. Her actions are her own.

I think she will be the villain in Doctor Strange, having been corupted by her power.

FileNotFound

Falcon and winter soldier next.


Going to be tons of spinoffs


I think quicksilver was added to allow some kind of reboot

The White Wolf

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

I expect FatWS to be much more standard fare as the story isn't going to throw up too much mystery (well I'm assuming that).

But yeah I fear for Loki. That sh1t is going to ramp hysteria up to 100 again.

ArthurG

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMerNQooA/

I’ll get my coat.....

The Inbetween is mine

ArthurG wrote: »

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMerNQooA/

I’ll get my coat.....

You're not far wrong though

Coybig_

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

gmisk

Enjoyed that last episode, and overall I really enjoyed the series massively overall.
I really liked how it leaned into the weirdness especially in those opening episodes.

the last episode was very action packed as I suppose it tends to be (in pretty much every MCU film anyway!) But I also felt quite emotionally involved, which surprised me. Kathryn Hahn mvp as usual! But Olsen has been excellent as well. Fairly nearly tied up with a few loose ends to be picked up on other shows and movies. Need to watch for post credits again.

klose

Coybig_ wrote: »

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

Monica is a littl girl in captain marvel so you wouldn't recognise her as they're literally different actresses.

Coybig_

klose wrote: »

Monica is a littl girl in captain marvel so you wouldn't recognise her as they're literally different actresses.

I know, I meant as a character.

Zardoz

Coybig_ wrote: »

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

Your opinion is very similar to my own.

I previously said

The first 3 episodes aped every sitcom cliche, but had genuine fun with almost none of them, and weren't in any way funny.
It was genre-surfing as a sort of filler, a sketch that lasts half an hour but without any laughs, just to get to the few hints in each episode as to what really is going on.

The first 3 episodes were sitcom filler.
You could easily have scrapped 1 of those and still had the same emotional impact.

I don't think much of the show if I'm honest.
The sitcom element is forced, tedious and not funny.
You could nearly fast forward through those parts, its just padding and a distraction.

Olsen and Bettanys acting is good and convincing but the supporting characters outside the town like Darcy, Monica, and Jimmy Woo are one dimensional.
They act like they are teenage sleuths solving a mystery.
Their dialogue is so corny and cliched, it constantly undermines any dramatic tension.
Every one of them is doing a bad impression of Robert Downey Jr. doing quips as Tony Stark.
Their acting is pretty woeful too.

The series is like a twin episode of the Twilight Zone or the Outer Limits dragged out to 3 hours plus.

Foxtrol

Coybig_ wrote: »

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

This will probably the new normal of this thread, living through the same cycle of people watching the show.

The fact you're trying to compare this to DD points to your preference/taste in what you're looking for, not the 'quality' of the show as you mention in this post and when you claim it has 'very little actual substance' in your earlier one. I'm a broken record at this point but you can not like something without making up claims of vague flaws.

I enjoyed DD but it never came close to the depth and emotional connection that WV did for me - that doesn't mean DD is deeply flawed in some vague impossible to pinpoint way.

The Inbetween is mine

Foxtrol wrote: »

This will probably the new normal of this thread, living through the same cycle of people watching the show.

The fact you're trying to compare this to DD points to your preference/taste in what you're looking for, not the 'quality' of the show as you mention in this post and when you claim it has 'very little actual substance' in your earlier one. I'm a broken record at this point but you can not like something without making up claims of vague flaws.

I enjoyed DD but it never came close to the depth and emotional connection that WV did for me - that doesn't mean DD is deeply flawed in some vague impossible to pinpoint way.

You're just having a laugh at this point.... emotional connection with WV...it was totally devoid of real emotion...
you knew the kids weren't real, you knew vision wasn't real...it was a pity party for 1 ..
It was enjoyable at times...
it left you wanting more, it set up a larger storyline to come with the MCU...but it did not engender any emotional connection whatsoever imo

Foxtrol

kerplun k wrote: »

Funny how WandaVision has really set the expectations for FatWS & Loki. There’ll be zero appetite to go into any sort of in depth post mortem of the weekly episodes now.

For me it’s clear the TV shows won’t have any major implications for the movies. There’ll probably be a soft lead in to the movies, but I won’t think any of these shows will be essential viewing for the films.

Not sure how you can claim there was no major implications for the movies, this show probably had more obvious implications than most of the movies have (Spoilering so I don't ruin a bunch of big items in one go):

- Introduction of White Vision
- Introduction of SWORD
- Super charging Wanda's powers
- Re-introducing and Superpowering Monica
- Introduction of Wanda's kids (which is implied that we'll see again)
- Introduction to Agatha (who I'd say we'll see again given the response)

That is a massive amount of key things that will be touched on later, without how it looks to be shaping up that Wanda's role will be massive in Phase 4 and without watching the show you'd struggle with her shifted motivations.

klose wrote: »

On that topic, I wonder will there some sort of recap or flashback sequence to fill in cinema goers who have not viewed any of the disney plus series as to why characters such as Wanda have developed?

Doubt it, it'll be like if you missed an MCU movie. Like all of the movies they'll drop one liners of explanation or maybe an odd flashback to help fill in some gaps but in general it is more 'tough' if you haven't seen it.

PhiloCypher

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

You're just having a laugh at this point.... emotional connection with WV...it was totally devoid of real emotion...
you knew the kids weren't real, you knew vision wasn't real...it was a pity party for 1 ..
It was enjoyable at times...
it left you wanting more, it set up a larger storyline to come with the MCU...but it did not engender any emotional connection whatsoever imo

We're meant to feel sad and emotionally connected to Wanda, not the kids, they were real to her, that's all that matters. Looks some people just have more natural empathy then others, they make emotional connections others don't. You obviously can't make those leaps and that's fine.

The Inbetween is mine

PhiloCypher wrote: »

We're meant to feel sad and emotionally connected to Wanda, not the kids, they were real to her, that's all that matters. Looks some people just have more natural empathy then others, they make emotional connections others don't. You obviously can't make those leaps and that's fine.

Emotional connection? ..nope I'm afraid not...the writing wasn't good enough to even make that an actual option
Bambi it ain't..

Ave Sodalis

The Inbetween is mine wrote:

You're just having a laugh at this point.... emotional connection with WV...it was totally devoid of real emotion... you knew the kids weren't real, you knew vision wasn't real...it was a pity party for 1 .. It was enjoyable at times... it left you wanting more, it set up a larger storyline to come with the MCU...but it did not engender any emotional connection whatsoever imo

With respect, I disagree. I shed a tear or two during that last episode. It's fine not to connect with something but it's broad generalisations like these that are hard to take seriously.

Penn

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

You're just having a laugh at this point.... emotional connection with WV...it was totally devoid of real emotion...
you knew the kids weren't real, you knew vision wasn't real...it was a pity party for 1 ..
It was enjoyable at times...
it left you wanting more, it set up a larger storyline to come with the MCU...but it did not engender any emotional connection whatsoever imo

I disagree. It wasn't about Vision or the kids being real or not, it was about Wanda wanting them to be real. It was about her extreme struggles with grief that by running from it and creating her perfect world, it was doing more damage to her and everyone around her.

The residents of Westview are like the representation of her grief; they looked happy on the surface but were being tortured and poisoned by her grief underneath. By not dealing with her grief she was inflicting that pain on others.

I think Wanda's struggle to maintain that control and ultimately learn that she had to let that go and learn to deal and cope with it herself was very emotional, and greatly bolstered by Olsen & Bettany's brilliant performances. Far more than some of the Netflix stuff (especially Luke Cage & Iron Fist).

FunLover18

I enjoyed this and I say that as someone who's definitely guilty of letting online speculation affect my expectations

‘WandaVision’ Failed to Deliver Things That Were Never Promised to Me

https://collider.com/wandavision-problems-cameos-teasers/amp/?__twitter_impression=true