WandaVision - Disney+ (***Spoilers***)

Foxtrol

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

You're just having a laugh at this point.... emotional connection with WV...it was totally devoid of real emotion...
you knew the kids weren't real, you knew vision wasn't real...it was a pity party for 1 ..
It was enjoyable at times...
it left you wanting more, it set up a larger storyline to come with the MCU...but it did not engender any emotional connection whatsoever imo

Wanda's anguish definitely resonated with me at times, alongside the counterbalance of a level of revulsion as we learned what the residents of Westview were going through.

Now I'm not saying it was to some historic, epic work of art but I didn't say that in the post you quoted. What I said was I connected with it more than DD - which had some great action scenes but I never made me feel any emotions towards the characters.

Not sure if you haven't experience grief before or can't relate to it but seeing as you're still 'liking' posts that call the first episodes filler then I'm not surprised you didn't build connection with the show at all, you wanted explosions not character/world building - the show clearly wasn't for you.

The White Wolf

FunLover18 wrote: »

I enjoyed this and I say that as someone who's definitely guilty of letting online speculation affect my expectations



https://collider.com/wandavision-problems-cameos-teasers/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Collider are amongst the scummiest shills out there so an article written from sarcasm seems about the height of their artistry.

Foxtrol

FunLover18 wrote: »

I enjoyed this and I say that as someone who's definitely guilty of letting online speculation affect my expectations

https://collider.com/wandavision-problems-cameos-teasers/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That is such a great article and really shows what is wrong with those kind of complaints. Not to open another hornets nest but those type of reactions where very similar to The Last Jedi, when many fans were so annoyed that Johnson basically made every fan theory redundant (I know there are other complaints too).

Coybig_ wrote: »

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

The article made me think back to this bit of an earlier post that I didn't touch on.

The poster here is complaining about Marvel being 'afraid' to deal with the real fallout from the snap, yet is consistently complaining about the episodes of character development focusing on how a single character is responding to her trauma related to that same incident. The whole season is about it, I don't know how that is 'brushing over it'.

Also, given the history of the MCU, I'd be shocked if it isn't touched on. Some have no patience at all

Sakana

Which are the best Marvel shows of the recent era? Having not seen all of AoS, my top three would have to be Jessica Jones (but only season 1), Agent Carter and Daredevil, with WandaVision tied for third place.

The Inbetween is mine

Foxtrol wrote: »

Wanda's anguish definitely resonated with me at times, alongside the counterbalance of a level of revulsion as we learned what the residents of Westview were going through.

Now I'm not saying it was to some historic, epic work of art but I didn't say that in the post you quoted. What I said was I connected with it more than DD - which had some great action scenes but I never made me feel any emotions towards the characters.

Not sure if you haven't experience grief before or can't relate to it but seeing as you're still 'liking' posts that call the first episodes filler then I'm not surprised you didn't build connection with the show at all, you wanted explosions not character/world building - the show clearly wasn't for you.

Unfortunately, DD had real characters...with real human emotions, flaws and hopes....to try to compare WV to this in any way on an emotional level is erroneous in the extreme
WV was enjoyable... but that was all ..it could have been so much, much more..the first 3 episodes, regardless of what you say were nothing more than an aside...an in-joke that went on too long
There was so much scope to bring Photon into this...and yet she was..in the background until the very last episode... surprising as she's going to be front and present in the new Captain Marvel movie....
If there is to be a second season, then it has to be a little more cohesive...but it's just my opinion,

beakerjoe

Sakana wrote: »

Which are the best Marvel shows of the recent era? Having not seen all of AoS, my top three would have to be Jessica Jones (but only season 1), Agent Carter and Daredevil, with WandaVision tied for third place.

Daredevil and Punisher were very enjoyable. Sad they wont be followed up on.

The Inbetween is mine

beakerjoe wrote: »

Daredevil and Punisher were very enjoyable. Sad they wont be followed up on.

The rights reverted back to Disney and they can now be revisited... Daredevil will be getting a reboot...Punisher & JJ possibly

Coybig_

Foxtrol wrote: »

This will probably the new normal of this thread, living through the same cycle of people watching the show.

The fact you're trying to compare this to DD points to your preference/taste in what you're looking for, not the 'quality' of the show as you mention in this post and when you claim it has 'very little actual substance' in your earlier one. I'm a broken record at this point but you can not like something without making up claims of vague flaws.

I enjoyed DD but it never came close to the depth and emotional connection that WV did for me - that doesn't mean DD is deeply flawed in some vague impossible to pinpoint way.

It was very, very poor. Just because I liked Daredevil doesn't mean I am incapable of liking something with a different tone - that is an absurd, childish argument, but an ironic one from somebody accusing me of being vague. Well have some specifics.

Right on episodes 1-3.

• Very little substance -in the episodes I referred to, what actually happened? A deluded Wanda interacted with a fake Vision, fake kids and townspeople under a spell. Which of that had any substance?
• We established early on that Wanda was living some sort of lie, this was evident in episode 1. The show spends the next few episodes reiterating that she is living a lie. Thanks show!
• Depth? You must be joking. It's about as deep as the shallow end of a kids pool.
• This could easily have been done in one or two episodes and I even provided you with an example of another show which attempted the same technique with far greater nuance and expertise.

Then:

• The show spends the next few episodes with the outsiders figuring out what is going on inside Westview. You could have left out Darcy and Woo and the plot wouldn't have been impacted in any way. Added literally nothing to the story and wasted screentime on them. Darcy in particular gets a Deus Ex Machina 5 second scene in the finale and shes gone.
• Wanda mentally enslaves and tortures a whole town for days/weeks. That is horrific, nothing justifies this. Yet the show tries to redeem her at the end by having the most laughable, cardboard cutout character, Monica, say 'they will never know what you did/gave up for them'. That is one of the most embarassing lines of dialogue in any superhero movie I've ever watched. Like that makes it ok?! And not 2 episodes before Monica was telling her that this was wrong but then finale she tells Wanda she would have done it too? It's like Marvel were scared of actually taking a risk and making Wanda a real villain (which her actions made her), and instead tried to justify those actions. Atrocious.
• And then she apologises to Monica!?! What about the townspeople right behind her!
• Monica is hysterical at Sword head for absolutely no reason - why on earth is he being painted as bad for not wanting to negotiate with someone who has enslaved an entire town. Especially when we as viewers know just how much pain those townfolk are in! She basically tells the audience (on behalf of the writers), don't be mad at Wanda, without having any information to go off as a character.
• At the end of episode 7 Agnes does this cringeworthy 4th wall break where she claims to be responsible for everything? For what exactly - it's all Wanda? Agnes making yerman cut into a wall is hardly evil is it?
• The transformation of the Sword head from reasonable guy to maniacle despot was horrifically done - In the space of like 2 episodes he goes from normal to a mustache twirling villain basically screaming his evil plans out to Woo. Why does he shoot the kids, it's literally a terrible excuse to display Monica's powers.
• And even acknowledging all that - I'm not sure he even does anything wrong! He tries to stop a dangerous criminal, I'm sure he had authorisation to bring Vision back to life, and a government controlled Vision would certainly be of use against the next Thanos, and those boys he shoots he knows can't be real.
• The Sword parts in general could have been clipped from Agents of Shield, so utterly bland.
• The Evan Peters thing was just a slap in the face to viewers. They knew it would have people speculate and whip the fans into a frenzy.
• It descends into this horrific CGI-borefest with this barely developed villain fighting Wanda.
• She leaves Agnes/Agatha trapped in her own mind around the town, a town where the population knows shes a witch - recipe for disaster surely! And more than that, shes comfortable deciding on Agathas punishment, yet what Wanda did was leagues worse and she gets 0 punishment?
• Speaking of Agatha, her motivation was 'more power'? Wow!
• 2 Visions hitting each other has to be the most mundane, boring finale fight yet.

It was, in my opinion, a very poor show which people are willing to look more favourably towards because it shows a Marvel logo in the opening munites of each episode.

pixelburp

Had decided I wouldn't watch this til it finished the run, binge it for once in my life (as something I almost never do). Dunno why just felt given the outlandish nature of the setting, that it might be a show better appreciated as a whole instead of Episode to episode.

So with that in mind ... I watched the first three episodes in a sitting (aka, minding the kid lol)

Oof.

Look. I enjoy a slow burn I really do, and I really have to applaud the commitment to two period authentic sitcom approaches, but those ~90 minutes felt nearly interminable. A cute idea that stretched what felt like a First Act past tolerance. To be fair, I never liked those sitcoms like I Dream of Genie, or Brady Bunch and whatnot, so the pastiches did nothing for me; the longer they went on only making my patience twitch. I grew up with British sitcoms of the 70s so maybe a version of this lampooning Faulty Towers would have sat better lol.

I will keep going and now that we're at that point where our Leads know Something Isn't Right, I hope things ramp up but ye gods getting there was .. well. It felt like Marvel's most self indulgent work to date. I don't want to call it atrocious but I can't say I enjoyed this. So far.

pah

pixelburp wrote: »

Had decided I wouldn't watch this til it finished the run, binge it for once in my life (as something I almost never do). Dunno why just felt given the outlandish nature of the setting, that it might be a show better appreciated as a whole instead of Episode to episode.

So with that in mind ... I watched the first three episodes in a sitting (aka, minding the kid lol)

Oof.

Look. I enjoy a slow burn I really do, and I really have to applaud the commitment to two period authentic sitcom approaches, but those ~90 minutes felt nearly interminable. A cute idea that stretched what felt like a First Act past tolerance. To be fair, I never liked those sitcoms like I Dream of Genie, or Brady Bunch and whatnot, so the pastiches did nothing for me; the longer they went on only making my patience twitch. I grew up with British sitcoms of the 70s so maybe a version of this lampooning Faulty Towers would have sat better lol.

I will keep going and now that we're at that point where our Leads know Something Isn't Right, I hope things ramp up but ye gods getting there was .. well. It felt like Marvel's most self indulgent work to date. I don't want to call it atrocious but I can't say I enjoyed this. So far.

Interesting. I loved I dream of genie, bewitched etc as a kid watching Saturday morning re runs. I enjoyed the first 3 episodes ov WV as much as the rest of the season.

Coybig_

Coybig_ wrote: »

It was very, very poor. Just because I liked Daredevil doesn't mean I am incapable of liking something with a different tone - that is an absurd, childish argument, but an ironic one from somebody accusing me of being vague. Well have some specifics.

Right on episodes 1-3.

• Very little substance -in the episodes I referred to, what actually happened? A deluded Wanda interacted with a fake Vision, fake kids and townspeople under a spell. Which of that had any substance?
• We established early on that Wanda was living some sort of lie, this was evident in episode 1. The show spends the next few episodes reiterating that she is living a lie. Thanks show!
• Depth? You must be joking. It's about as deep as the shallow end of a kids pool.
• This could easily have been done in one or two episodes and I even provided you with an example of another show which attempted the same technique with far greater nuance and expertise.

Then:

• The show spends the next few episodes with the outsiders figuring out what is going on inside Westview. You could have left out Darcy and Woo and the plot wouldn't have been impacted in any way. Added literally nothing to the story and wasted screentime on them. Darcy in particular gets a Deus Ex Machina 5 second scene in the finale and shes gone.
• Wanda mentally enslaves and tortures a whole town for days/weeks. That is horrific, nothing justifies this. Yet the show tries to redeem her at the end by having the most laughable, cardboard cutout character, Monica, say 'they will never know what you did/gave up for them'. That is one of the most embarassing lines of dialogue in any superhero movie I've ever watched. Like that makes it ok?! And not 2 episodes before Monica was telling her that this was wrong but then finale she tells Wanda she would have done it too? It's like Marvel were scared of actually taking a risk and making Wanda a real villain (which her actions made her), and instead tried to justify those actions. Atrocious.
• And then she apologises to Monica!?! What about the townspeople right behind her!
• Monica is hysterical at Sword head for absolutely no reason - why on earth is he being painted as bad for not wanting to negotiate with someone who has enslaved an entire town. Especially when we as viewers know just how much pain those townfolk are in! She basically tells the audience (on behalf of the writers), don't be mad at Wanda, without having any information to go off as a character.
• At the end of episode 7 Agnes does this cringeworthy 4th wall break where she claims to be responsible for everything? For what exactly - it's all Wanda? Agnes making yerman cut into a wall is hardly evil is it?
• The transformation of the Sword head from reasonable guy to maniacle despot was horrifically done - In the space of like 2 episodes he goes from normal to a mustache twirling villain basically screaming his evil plans out to Woo. Why does he shoot the kids, it's literally a terrible excuse to display Monica's powers.
• And even acknowledging all that - I'm not sure he even does anything wrong! He tries to stop a dangerous criminal, I'm sure he had authorisation to bring Vision back to life, and a government controlled Vision would certainly be of use against the next Thanos, and those boys he shoots he knows can't be real.
• The Sword parts in general could have been clipped from Agents of Shield, so utterly bland.
• The Evan Peters thing was just a slap in the face to viewers. They knew it would have people speculate and whip the fans into a frenzy.
• It descends into this horrific CGI-borefest with this barely developed villain fighting Wanda.
• She leaves Agnes/Agatha trapped in her own mind around the town, a town where the population knows shes a witch - recipe for disaster surely! And more than that, shes comfortable deciding on Agathas punishment, yet what Wanda did was leagues worse and she gets 0 punishment?
• Speaking of Agatha, her motivation was 'more power'? Wow!
• 2 Visions hitting each other has to be the most mundane, boring finale fight yet.

It was, in my opinion, a very poor show which people are willing to look more favourably towards because it shows a Marvel logo in the opening munites of each episode.

I'm not a huge marvel fan but I loved this.

I think it's mad that you can be so angry that you didn't like a show.

pixelburp

pah wrote: »

Interesting. I loved I dream of genie, bewitched etc as a kid watching Saturday morning re runs. I enjoyed the first 3 episodes ov WV as much as the rest of the season.

That's fair enough and I totally appreciated the craft and attention that went into the recreations ... but it quickly got old and I wanted the story to move on. I was like, ok. I get it guys can we move on from the canned laughter... Oh no, ok. there's another whole episode in Pleasantville (10 points for anyone who remembers THAT film!). I rarely lose patience with a show to the degree those opening 3 episodes tested it. Looks like the story is getting started finally, so I'm still in.

silverharp

2 more to go, like the idea behind the show, could be a horror film in a different context. The Darcy character is annoying and a little grating though.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

That's fair enough and I totally appreciated the craft and attention that went into the recreations ... but it quickly got old and I wanted the story to move on. I was like, ok. I get it guys can we move on from the canned laughter... Oh no, ok. there's another whole episode in Pleasantville (10 points for anyone who remembers THAT film!). I rarely lose patience with a show to the degree those opening 3 episodes tested it. Looks like the story is getting started finally, so I'm still in.

That's why I think the weekly episodes worked better than binge watching. Twenty odd minutes of story progression that you can mull over for a week and is paid off in the near future is better than just waiting for the story to "kick in" in my opinion.

pixelburp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's why I think the weekly episodes worked better than binge watching. Twenty odd minutes of story progression that you can mull over for a week and is paid off in the near future is better than just waiting for the story to "kick in" in my opinion.

Honestly if this was week to week I think I'd have bailed earlier. Full disclosure I had heard it was after episode 3 the actual story took off so I endured the three with that knowledge. In fact I daresay were this aired in an era before streaming, methinks the gimmick would have been outed much sooner - maybe even after the first episode. No studio would have left things spin so idly without giving something to gadfly viewers.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Honestly if this was week to week I think I'd have bailed earlier. Full disclosure I had heard it was after episode 3 the actual story took off so I endured the three with that knowledge. In fact I daresay were this aired in an era before streaming, methinks the gimmick would have been outed much sooner - maybe even after the first episode. No studio would have left things spin so idly without giving something to gadfly viewers.

Fair dues.

I really enjoyed it.

I'm someone who has never picked up a comic book and had a middling interest in the MCU up until infinity war/endgame

Kermit.de.frog

silverharp wrote: »

2 more to go, like the idea behind the show, could be a horror film in a different context. The Darcy character is annoying and a little grating though.

True. When she first appeared within minutes I was asking myself was I going to see it through.

Each to their own but for me that type of goofy know all character is just not funny or cute or interesting. Just annoying in a fingernails on blackboard type of way.

Also agree with sentiment above, remove the Marvel logo, the novel and creative start with sitcom setup, and some fan service and this was really a load of tripe.

C+ for me.

kerplun k

Foxtrol wrote: »

Not sure how you can claim there was no major implications for the movies, this show probably had more obvious implications than most of the movies have (Spoilering so I don't ruin a bunch of big items in one go):

- Introduction of White Vision
- Introduction of SWORD
- Super charging Wanda's powers
- Re-introducing and Superpowering Monica
- Introduction of Wanda's kids (which is implied that we'll see again)
- Introduction to Agatha (who I'd say we'll see again given the response)

That is a massive amount of key things that will be touched on later, without how it looks to be shaping up that Wanda's role will be massive in Phase 4 and without watching the show you'd struggle with her shifted motivations.



Doubt it, it'll be like if you missed an MCU movie. Like all of the movies they'll drop one liners of explanation or maybe an odd flashback to help fill in some gaps but in general it is more 'tough' if you haven't seen it.

I’d still argue that most of these things are only a soft lead ins and will not be essential viewing when watching the movies. We had nothing of the scale that was hinted at throughout the run.

This is something Feige has actually confirmed.

https://www.list.co.uk/article/124024-kevin-feige-marvel-fans-dont-need-to-watch-wandavision-to-understand-movies/

If the characters in WandaVision do pop up in other stuff, the origins will be touched upon and sure D+ is there if the fans want to go and learn more about those characters, and I think those characters will also be mainly centric to future D+ shows.

kerplun k

pixelburp wrote: »

Had decided I wouldn't watch this til it finished the run, binge it for once in my life (as something I almost never do). Dunno why just felt given the outlandish nature of the setting, that it might be a show better appreciated as a whole instead of Episode to episode.

So with that in mind ... I watched the first three episodes in a sitting (aka, minding the kid lol)

Oof.

Look. I enjoy a slow burn I really do, and I really have to applaud the commitment to two period authentic sitcom approaches, but those ~90 minutes felt nearly interminable. A cute idea that stretched what felt like a First Act past tolerance. To be fair, I never liked those sitcoms like I Dream of Genie, or Brady Bunch and whatnot, so the pastiches did nothing for me; the longer they went on only making my patience twitch. I grew up with British sitcoms of the 70s so maybe a version of this lampooning Faulty Towers would have sat better lol.

I will keep going and now that we're at that point where our Leads know Something Isn't Right, I hope things ramp up but ye gods getting there was .. well. It felt like Marvel's most self indulgent work to date. I don't want to call it atrocious but I can't say I enjoyed this. So far.

Good call waiting. I wished I did the same. These D+ shows, with their irregular run times and inconsistent pacing, and long credits are best watched within a closer proximity. It’s something I’m gonna do watching all these D+ shows going forward. I’ll save them up and keep it to 1 or 2 per night depending on the length.

Penn

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Also agree with sentiment above, remove the Marvel logo, the novel and creative start with sitcom setup, and some fan service and this was really a load of tripe.

I genuinely think that without the Marvel aspect of it, I would have seriously thought during the first episode that whoever made this must have been mad in the head to make an I Love Lucy / Bewitched type of show in this day and age.

Until the dinner choking scene. The flip in style, the horrific undertones, then the switch back. Capped off at the end with the cut to the reveal of someone in present day watching it. I definitely would have been intrigued enough to keep watching. Same with episode 2 and the red helicopter, radio voice and then the beekeeper scene. The veil slowly being lifted back, progressing through different tv eras (showing that it would progress to meet present day). Then the third episode, the scene between Wanda and Monica where Wanda took on an incredibly menacing tone, culminating in the switch to the outside world.

If it wasn't a Marvel show/characters etc, I still would have been interested in the show. I thought it was a very intriguing idea regardless. And I get that people thought the first few episodes were far too slow, but I really think if they'd cut it down to an episode or two it would have been pointless to do it in the first place, and there wouldn't have been enough time for those unsettling moments to have any effect. You need to give enough time to the normal for the abnormal to really stand out.

Kermit.de.frog

Penn wrote: »

I genuinely think that without the Marvel aspect of it, I would have seriously thought during the first episode that whoever made this must have been mad in the head to make an I Love Lucy / Bewitched type of show in this day and age.

Until the dinner choking scene. The flip in style, the horrific undertones, then the switch back. Capped off at the end with the cut to the reveal of someone in present day watching it. I definitely would have been intrigued enough to keep watching. Same with episode 2 and the red helicopter, radio voice and then the beekeeper scene. The veil slowly being lifted back, progressing through different tv eras (showing that it would progress to meet present day). Then the third episode, the scene between Wanda and Monica where Wanda took on an incredibly menacing tone, culminating in the switch to the outside world.

If it wasn't a Marvel show/characters etc, I still would have been interested in the show. I thought it was a very intriguing idea regardless. And I get that people thought the first few episodes were far too slow, but I really think if they'd cut it down to an episode or two it would have been pointless to do it in the first place, and there wouldn't have been enough time for those unsettling moments to have any effect. You need to give enough time to the normal for the abnormal to really stand out.

First few episodes were slower but they were novel, something different which I appreciated.

Another thing - am I the only who didn't care at all what was happening outside the Hex?

All those scenes dragged it back for me because there was no substance to it and a pretty poor excuse for a "villain" who again I just never cared about.

I thought everything outside Wanda's world was mostly pointless and took away from what could have been a better story - all be it with pretty horrific undertones.

Another big problem I have with this series is the lack of consequences.

Vision died - he's back, any emotional investment in the end of Infinity War gone.

The kids - how sad but again no consequences because low and behold...

But the biggest issue for me is that Wanda literally takes a whole town hostage, puts them in her nightmare, controls everything they do and there is zero consequences for her

In fact, far from there being consequences, Monica tells her "they'll never know what you did for them"???????? and she's just allowed fly off like nothing happened.

Made no sense at all.

pixelburp

Re. The Marvel badge, what it probably bought this show was the bandwidth to horse about with its sitcom premise longer than a new IP. A studio would have forced a narrative twist sooner and more definitively. Another big aspect perhaps forgotten, is this show made no attempt to catch us up on who Wanda and Vision actually WERE. You'd have needed an episode just to catch a blind audience up on their respective backstories (of which, Visions is kinda horseshít from Ultron). Instead we jumped straight in. That couldn't have happened without the confidence / hubris of Marvel backing this.

murpho999

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRkLLkpL5oY

Enjoyed this.

SimonTemplar

murpho999 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRkLLkpL5oY

Enjoyed this.

His videos are extremely witty and well written.

murpho999

Coybig_ wrote: »

Watched episode 4 and 5 and a slight improvement if only because there is some semblance of a plot. I feel like a lot of the information delivered in episode 4 could have been weaved into episode 2 and Episode 3 and the show would have been better for it.

I initially didnt even recognise who Monica was, which I guess is telling of just how forgettable and poor Captain Marvel was as a movie.

I am over half way in and it really feels like they stretched 2 or 3 episodes of content into 5. When you compare this to Daredevil as a series, bar a few episodes of DD season 2, the gap in quality is almost unquantifiable.

I was particularly annoyed about the scene after the snap, because we saw so little of it! Yet again Marvel afraid to deal with what should be the real fallout of the snap, and the complicated ramifications of it. Too quickly brushed aside in Far from Home and now this.

I dont know am I in the minority and I'm delighted if people liked it, but just falling very flat for me thus far. Hopefully the final 4 episodes can improve.

But can you not just watch something and let them set the scene and wonder where it's going without having to know straight away?

I don't get why so many people have impatience and don't want scene setting, arc and/or character development.

I personally enjoyed the first few episodes as I had no clue what was going on but knew there was something happening and I enjoyed trying to work out and then being giving bits of information as the serious developed. I just don't get the rush.

Only downer for me was that the final episode was somewhat disappointing but overall it was a good show.

I liked it's originality and risks it took to be different.

Coybig_

murpho999 wrote: »

But can you not just watch something and let them set the scene and wonder where it's going without having to know straight away?

I don't get why so many people have impatience and don't want scene setting, arc and/or character development.

I personally enjoyed the first few episodes as I had no clue what was going on but knew there was something happening and I enjoyed trying to work out and then being giving bits of information as the serious developed. I just don't get the rush.

Only downer for me was that the final episode was somewhat disappointing but overall it was a good show.

I liked it's originality and risks it took to be different.

Right, but the sitcom parts have absolutely no impact on the plot, the characters in them are mind controlled or fakes.

We persist with this setup with virtually no payoff for a number of episodes.

Before the show even started people pretty much sussed that it was Wanda projecting this reality in some way because Vision was dead. But we had to go through episodes of irrelevant sitcom to see these 30 second glitches in each episode before learning, yes, it is what you always thought it was!

There was literally no character development aside from learning that Wanda was grieving and delusional, because she was the only character who had any f*cking agency and wasn't either mind controlled or made up!

And the rest of the episodes only served to confirm that yes, Wanda was grieving and delusional. Spectacular character development there.

As I said before, Mr.Robot (a show which is leagues better than this show) took this exact same concept and did it far more skillfully and with greater nuance. They used it for one episode because doing it for 3 is absolutely stretching the concept beyond it's initial charm.

I have patience when a show is well written. The Sopranos is a relatively slow paced show which is very enjoyable - a show isn't automatically good because it is slower paced. A show isn't automatically deep because it doesn't immediately reveal it's wafer thin plot. Rectify is even slower paced again, but elite television because it is competently written. Not liking Wandavision does not equal not liking 'slower paced shows'. Absurd argument.

Also, it didn't take any risks - it was able to use the Marvel name and the pre-existing characters and goodwill built up from a successful universe to justify it's meandering opening few episodes, before descending into the formulaic shlock that fans say it is supposedly attempting to differentiate itself from.

silverharp

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But the biggest issue for me is that Wanda literally takes a whole town hostage, puts them in her nightmare, controls everything they do and there is zero consequences for her

In fact, far from there being consequences, Monica tells her "they'll never know what you did for them"???????? and she's just allowed fly off like nothing happened.

Made no sense at all.

a hint of Wonder Woman ethics there. There should be some setup that the world governments want rid of her, or at least or confined in some way. If she was the villain of the show it wouldnt be that different.

murpho999

Coybig_ wrote: »

Right, but the sitcom parts have absolutely no impact on the plot, the characters in them are mind controlled or fakes.

We persist with this setup with virtually no payoff for a number of episodes.

Before the show even started people pretty much sussed that it was Wanda projecting this reality in some way because Vision was dead. But we had to go through episodes of irrelevant sitcom to see these 30 second glitches in each episode before learning, yes, it is what you always thought it was!

There was literally no character development aside from learning that Wanda was grieving and delusional, because she was the only character who had any f*cking agency and wasn't either mind controlled or made up!

And the rest of the episodes only served to confirm that yes, Wanda was grieving and delusional. Spectacular character development there.

As I said before, Mr.Robot (a show which is leagues better than this show) took this exact same concept and did it far more skillfully and with greater nuance. They used it for one episode because doing it for 3 is absolutely stretching the concept beyond it's initial charm.

I have patience when a show is well written. The Sopranos is a relatively slow paced show which is very enjoyable - a show isn't automatically good because it is slower paced. A show isn't automatically deep because it doesn't immediately reveal it's wafer thin plot. Rectify is even slower paced again, but elite television because it is competently written. Not liking Wandavision does not equal not liking 'slower paced shows'. Absurd argument.

Also, it didn't take any risks - it was able to use the Marvel name and the pre-existing characters and goodwill built up from a successful universe to justify it's meandering opening few episodes, before descending into the formulaic shlock that fans say it is supposedly attempting to differentiate itself from.

You would swear the first 3 episodes were 2 hours each long and then E4 was were everything was revealed.

Online fans guessing is irrelevant as that always happens and I think everybody knew early on anyway that it wasn't a real world.

So Wanda grieving is not character development. Showing the neighbours is not development, Vison at work etc.

For me there was pay off and it did take risks.

Having the show set in sit coms was very un Marvel like and that is a risk as far as I was concerned.

As for the slow argument, I agree about the Sopranos. I love when shows are not in a rush and for me it was the same here. A mysterious scene was set with small reveals and then big reveals in Episode 4.
You just seem to want the show to start with the show immediately showing that Wanda had taken over a town and its inhabitants and no build up.
I think it was right to show how she was living in an artificial fantasy world which we later find out is linked to her upbringing with her family.

I really don't see what's wrong with that over a 9 episode season.

iguana

The pitch meeting was basically my exact feelings.

FunLover18

Personally I also enjoyed just getting to know Wanda and Vision again in the first three episodes. They had been side characters in the movies and their romance very much happened off screen between Civil War and IW so I think it helped to have those three episodes of them together and in love but then I also enjoyed the sitcom aspect and appreciated the effort made to make them accurate.

In terms of Wanda getting comeuppance, I agree it could have been handled better but I hope it is something that will be addressed. I got the impression in the post credit scene that she had put herself in self imposed exile, a bit like Banner at the end of Incredible Hulk. But let's not forget this is Marvel and they redeemed Loki after all. I'm not sure I'd agree that Wanda is worse than Agatha for what she did, Agatha killed people whereas Wanda only engaged in some mild mental torture :pac:

I've also seen a theory that Ralph is Woo's witness given how he laughed at his own surname as if it was the first time he'd heard it, so possibly not the last we've seen of him.