Student teacher joining a union

morclc

Should a student teacher join a union before going on school placement?

linguist

Yes, you absolutely should join a union full stop! In primary, the INTO is the only union recognised for collective bargaining in the sector.

In post-primary, the ASTI and TUI represent teachers but some schools are single-union and others dual-union. There is no problem in leaving one union and joining the other if your employment circumstances change. Many of us have had to do it. As a rule of thumb:

If your placement is in an ETB school, join TUI.
If your placement is in a voluntary (Catholic, Protestant...) secondary school, join ASTI.
If your placement is in a community school, many are dual-union.

Unions excel at providing assistance to individual teachers who need it. This is often overlooked when there's talk of industrial action or when lesser-paid teachers rightly criticise lack of progress on two-tier pay. So many of us have had to turn to the union to support us in dealing with a challenging situation and you'll never regret paying your sub when you've had them row in behind you.

glack

I’m pretty sure when I was teacher training-for primary- we were all automatically student members of the INTO??? Maybe I have that wrong. I’m sure it’s different at second level with 2 different unions.

linguist

glack, that would seem odd since joining a union should be a conscious choice. Perhaps at some point in the past that was done but I don't think it would happen now. The unions routinely present to student teachers and invite them to join as student members. I don't think they have full voting rights (open to correction) but they have the full right to assistance and representation.

Corkgirl18

I don't know anyone who joined a union while still on TP to be honest. I was given the advice to wait until I had a stable job and then join. If you're subbing you could be between dept schools and ETB schools which have different unions.

Moody_mona

The ASTI is free for student teachers. Unions are incredibly useful, especially before you have a stable job, I wouldn't be recommending anyone to hold off.

2011abc

linguist wrote: »

Unions excel at providing assistance to individual teachers who need it. This is often overlooked when there's talk of industrial action or when lesser-paid teachers rightly criticise lack of progress on two-tier pay. So many of us have had to turn to the union to support us in dealing with a challenging situation and you'll never regret paying your sub when you've had them row in behind you.

People have a totally false impression of the 'assistance' provided and how they 'row in behind you' in a crisis .Most maintain membership out of fear of something' big ' happening .

1. 99.9% ( and I'd say that could be an underestimate if anything ...SERIOUSLY!) of the time you get a phone call back from one of their industrial relations 'experts' .

2. When push comes to shove they will cave and tell you to settle for whatever the principal /BOM throws at you .

I'd consider myself a trade unionist but increasingly struggle to recommend younger teachers join .The unions are getting the same treatment as hospitals / healthcare ( and schools!) being ran into the ground to facilitate the government's evil agenda .( And if you think that sounds melodramatic you're clearly vote for parties that begin with an F)

OP You will be time enough joining after you get your first contract .

mtoutlemonde

2011abc wrote: »

People have a totally false impression of the 'assistance' provided and how they 'row in behind you' in a crisis .Most maintain membership out of fear of something' big ' happening .

1. 99.9% ( and I'd say that could be an underestimate if anything ...SERIOUSLY!) of the time you get a phone call back from one of their industrial relations 'experts' .

2. When push comes to shove they will cave and tell you to settle for whatever the principal /BOM throws at you .

I'd consider myself a trade unionist but increasingly struggle to recommend younger teachers join .The unions are getting the same treatment as hospitals / healthcare ( and schools!) being ran into the ground to facilitate the government's evil agenda .( And if you think that sounds melodramatic you're clearly vote for parties that begin with an F)

OP You will be time enough joining after you get your first contract .

Completely agree with this. 'Would bringing in the union solve the situation?', 'You have to work with your principal', 'Do you want a CID?' Etc.
These are some of the responses I have heard from ASTI. Unless it's a clear cut case, they don't want to know despite the fact that the principal can treat his/her staff like the muck on their shoe, do as they like put the fear of God into teachers on first RPT contract and even more so in their second.

I have said it before but I think ASTI will have to join the TUI someday because they seem to be the popular choice for NQTs. I don't know why with all they did in the previous free years. Or NQTs are not joining unions.

Also being in the union isn't worth the fee if you don't turn up to branch meetings. I see the same faces at ours always and I would say that I'm the youngest. The fight is gone. Our students are taking on the environment and our NQTs/ASTI are letting the government do as they please.

Postgrad10

I’d say wait until you have an actual teaching position where you get paid. No idea what subject you have but more than likely won’t get a position straight away.

Treppen

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I’d say wait until you have an actual teaching position where you get paid. No idea what subject you have but more than likely won’t get a position straight away.

No big deal if it's free to join though.

People really need to wake up and look at schools where unions have no representation. There's a reason why new schools prefer nqt's. If there's a sense that teachers aren't United in a school or if there's a tipping point towards no Union then teachers get ####ed... Compulsory Extra classes during lunch or after school, contracts being conjured up and changed at will, bullying, Nepotism, department dickery.

...and yes I appreciate this can happen in schools with strong Union membership too. But on the whole your better off standing together and not JUST thinking "what's in it for me".

Anyone who's been rep knows of the non union members who bend the ear of the Union rep for advice when the wolf is at the door and pay off with promises of signing up (but never do)... And then start banging on the staff room tables about the Union being ineffective and "selling out the teachers".

linguist

I don't know the specific reasons why a couple of posters here have criticised the support offered by the unions. I suspect the three teachers in the west whose redeployments were stopped by legal action taken by the ASTI last summer would beg to disagree. We do have to insure ourselves against 'something big happening'. If somebody makes an allegation against you - which you deny - you have the Teaching Council, the Board of Management, the trustees, the school management bodies etc. on the other side of the table. You need support in your corner and that support will come from your union.

Now, at the same time, nobody can defend the indefensible and the union cannot imperil its financial position supporting legal action where it's obvious that the teacher is in the wrong. Similarly, reading the posts from 2011abc and mtoutlemonde, we all know of vexatious complainaholics who will run to the union or steward at the drop of a hat. And if their complaint is frivolous, vexatious or just plain wrong they have to be told where to go. However, I have been well advised by my union on more than one occasion and just as I wouldn't give up my salary protection or my health insurance there is no way that I would give up my union membership.

Bobtheman

2011abc wrote: »

People have a totally false impression of the 'assistance' provided and how they 'row in behind you' in a crisis .Most maintain membership out of fear of something' big ' happening .

1. 99.9% ( and I'd say that could be an underestimate if anything ...SERIOUSLY!) of the time you get a phone call back from one of their industrial relations 'experts' .

2. When push comes to shove they will cave and tell you to settle for whatever the principal /BOM throws at you .

I'd consider myself a trade unionist but increasingly struggle to recommend younger teachers join .The unions are getting the same treatment as hospitals / healthcare ( and schools!) being ran into the ground to facilitate the government's evil agenda .( And if you think that sounds melodramatic you're clearly vote for parties that begin with an F)

OP You will be time enough joining after you get your first contract .

I think you could be accused off an over simplification. I know of cases where they have been very supportive and very useless. Overall it's better to be in a union. Any settlement of the pay gap will be through the unions. We are a profession in decline as we adopt the English system but the union is the only brake on this plus the departments refusal to fund department heads etc.
I will be retired soon. I had great hopes a few years ago when the ex docker was president but we lasted two days on strike - a joke. I can only hope for a time when we might go on a serious strike.
I did my time about ten years of activity. Personal circumstances mean I can no longer be involved.
Join but don't sit on your arse union wise.

spurious

Reminding people in any discussion, to 'play the ball, not the man' as they say.