New job - not being taxed?

mamabear22

Hi I started a new job nearly 5 months ago. It is a small company and I am the only full time permanent employee however there was another person in my position before me.
My employer pays my wages directly into my bank account but I am being paid the exact amount for the hours that I have worked, nothing has been taken off for tax or PRSI etc.
I haven't had any payslips and I asked but they don't usually give them. I said I needed them and they said they could do them for me but as of yet this isn't happening.
I'm worried I could get into trouble for not paying tax? Where do I go from here? Not sure how to raise it with my new employer! I'm hoping to apply for a mortgage this year and also worried it's going to affect me getting this.

Thanks for reading

Johnny Sausage

if you are not getting a payslip that is a massive red flag

your own tax affairs are your responsibility,

have you logged on to your revenue online to see if your employer is registerd on your record?

Johnny Sausage

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

if you are not getting a payslip that is a massive red flag

your own tax affairs are your responsibility,

have you logged on to your revenue online to see if your employer is registerd on your record?

This.

mamabear22

I have just tried to log on to revenue online - I have never used it before so have to wait for them to post me out a password

splinter65

mamabear22 wrote: »

I have just tried to log on to revenue online - I have never used it before so have to wait for them to post me out a password

It’ll be out in a few days. It’s quite easy to navigate. You’ll find all your employment information in “manage my taxes 2019”.

mamabear22

Thank you. So if my current employment is not there do I need to speak to my employer about it or contact revenue myself?

mamabear22

mamabear22 wrote: »

Thank you. So if my current employment is not there do I need to speak to my employer about it or contact revenue myself?

Both.

splinter65

mamabear22 wrote: »

Thank you. So if my current employment is not there do I need to speak to my employer about it or contact revenue myself?

There should be the details of every time you were paid and what deductions were made on your behalf all through 2019. You can see your tax credit cert/s too. If there are no details then it’s between you, your employer and WRC (1890 80 80 90) there’s nothing really revenue can do for you.
You too had a certain amount of responsibility to notify revenue that you were employed, where and from when. Ultimately being tax and PRSI compliant is the responsibility of each individual.

uck51js9zml2yt

Give them a ring on 017383636

JustMe,K

Have you worked at all in the year up to the new job? You might not have hit the tax threshold.

You will need your employers registration number to register them, which may be the same as their VAT number if they have one. You absolutely should have a payslip though, the fact they dont produce them as standard would concern me.

Seve OB

If your employer is not calculating your pay correctly and not submitting revenue returns and not giving you payslips....... well then they have a problem. They are breaking laws. They could end up having to pay all your back tax out of their pocket as it could be deemed they were paying you net amounts and they need to gross them up.

You need to speak to them and if they don’t perform, tell them you will be getting someone else to look at it.

Strumms

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_slip.html

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/hours-and-wages/payslips/

They are breaking the law by not issuing payslips. Nail them.

splinter65

Strumms wrote: »

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_slip.html

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/hours-and-wages/payslips/

They are breaking the law by not issuing payslips. Nail them.

Yes the employer is not issuing payslips. Yes this is against the law. Is it not more beneficial to the employee to first of all to enter into a dialogue as opposed to “nail them”?

Mrs OBumble

JustMe,K wrote: »

Have you worked at all in the year up to the new job? You might not have hit the tax threshold.

This is true.

But the lack of PRSI is a lot more worrying: you're not getting "stamps" towards your pension, or towards job-seekers benefit eligibility. And you definitely should be getting charged some of this.


OP, you can talk to them all you want, but if you're there less than a year they will very likely let you go for raising the the issue. The sort of employer who doesn't operate PAYE will do this without a second thought. So I would focus on job-hunting, rather than anything else.

CPTM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This is true.

But the lack of PRSI is a lot more worrying: you're not getting "stamps" towards your pension, or towards job-seekers benefit eligibility. And you definitely should be getting charged some of this.


OP, you can talk to them all you want, but if you're there less than a year they will very likely let you go for raising the the issue. The sort of employer who doesn't operate PAYE will do this without a second thought. So I would focus on job-hunting, rather than anything else.

They'd be really screwed though from a legal perspective if they let her go after she raised this issue.

mamabear22

Thanks for all the replies. Yes I was working the rest of the year up until I started this new job, I went straight from one to the other. I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble I just want to make sure I'm not getting in any bother myself.
As I said in my first post it is a small company and I am the only employee - I may be being naive here but I don't think my employers are intentionally doing anything wrong I think they may just not be aware of what they need to do. I think there's just a lack of knowledge all round from both myself and my employers.
I'll wait til I get my password for the revenue online and check it out and speak to employer next week when I am back at work. Thanks to everyone for the help.

_Brian

Your going down the right path.

See if your employment is registered.
You can register the employer yourself on revenue if it’s not registered.

If not registered I would then ring revenue about it and give them all the facts.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Seve OB wrote: »

If your employer is not calculating your pay correctly and not submitting revenue returns and not giving you payslips....... well then they have a problem. They are breaking laws. They could end up having to pay all your back tax out of their pocket as it could be deemed they were paying you net amounts and they need to gross them up.

You need to speak to them and if they don’t perform, tell them you will be getting someone else to look at it.

Unfortunately, responsibility for underpayment of income tax, employee's PRSI and USC lies with the employee, even when the employer is in the wrong. It's definitely worth phoning Revenue about this. Don't worry about getting anyone in trouble - you need to cover your own arse.

BhoyRayzor

It's in the employers interest as well to process payroll correctly, they have to report the necessary deductions to Revenue every time they pay you. As you say as a small operation they may not be used to payroll and especially not the new system that was introduced over the last year, so probably nothing intentional on their part.

If you have given them your PPS number that is all you need to do, unless this is your first job then you need to register the employment yourself, otherwise they can do it or you can either as they pbvioulsy haven't at this stage. Speak to them first if the employment is still not showing. You can send a myenquiry to Revenue, which is basically like an email, so you have a written record that you raised the issue and when.

You should be able to get your password for myAccount straight away by email or text but if this is the first time contacting them it probably needs to be posted to your address.

mrslancaster

mamabear22 wrote: »

...
My employer pays my wages directly into my bank account but I am being paid the exact amount for the hours that I have worked, nothing has been taken off for tax or PRSI etc.
I haven't had any payslips and I asked but they don't usually give them.

OP did you get any contract

Mrs OBumble

CPTM wrote: »

They'd be really screwed though from a legal perspective if they let her go after she raised this issue.

Can she prove she worked there, though? Can be difficult to do without a pay slip.


And they would just say " sorry it's not working out" sometime during probation, and she gone.

mlem123

Make sure you get on top of this!

I worked for a small start up for 6 months, they never gave payslips etc and I was a bit naive as I'd only worked temp jobs up until this point.

Came away with a bill of about €700 in underpayment that I owe

They were a lousy employer but I also should of been more on top of that. Lesson learnt.

Seve OB

Brian Victorious Reptile wrote: »

Unfortunately, responsibility for underpayment of income tax, employee's PRSI and USC lies with the employee, even when the employer is in the wrong.

Not sure where you get that idea but you are wrong.

here is some light reading for you which spells out the position of an employer who does not operate PRSI correctly.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/sw88.pdf

Employers have a lot of responsibilities and there may be big problems for them if they do not do what they should. Here is some heavier reading should you be interested. A quick jump to chapter 9 pg 67 will tell you that it is indeed the employers responsibility to deduct tax and PRSI. Did deeper and you will find the penalties the revenue may impose will be to issue a tax bill to the employer, which will essentially gross up the payments made to the employee bank account.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-42/42-04-35a.pdf

It is quite clear to me from what we are being told here that this employer is not operating payroll as they should. I suspect they possibly believe the employee is some kind of contractor who is declaring their own tax. Or possibly it could be the employer may have gotten an accountant to backdate everything in the past, not aware that this is no longer acceptable.

OP Don't worry about your password for revenue. If you really want you can ring the revenue and ask they if they have any records of your current employment on file. But you really should talk to your employer ASAP. Be nice about it, I wouldn't be "out to get them" as some suggest. Tell them your concerns, explain that you are unsure if everything is ok as you are not getting your payslips as you should be and ask them to confirm if they
1. are registered for PAYE as an employer
2. ask them for their employers registered number
3. have been calculating pace/prsi on your payments
4. have been submitting your payroll data to the revenue
5. making the relevant payments to the revenue on time.(i would not worry to much if they are not paying the revenue, while they should be paying on time, it will have no effect on your situation. it is the submissions on point 4 which are important.
6. if they confirm all the above, ask again for your payslips
or if they cannot confirm, maybe just tell them they need to be aware of their responsibilities and advise them that maybe they should speak with their company accountants for some guidance.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Seve OB wrote: »

Not sure where you get that idea but you are wrong.

Personal experience. You are giving the OP very poor advice, as responsibility for underpayment of income tax, employee's PRSI and USC lies with the employee. Nothing in the documents you linked to contradicts this (and the SW 88 PDF you shared seems to be very out of date, as it predates PMOD).


While it is the employer's responsibility to deduct income tax, employee's PRSI and USC, as described in The Employers’ Guide to PAYE that you shared, if an employer fails to do so, they can be penalised with fines. However, the employer will only be liable for the amount of an underpayment of income tax, employee's PRSI and USC where they deducted it from the employee's wage but did not remit it to Revenue.



It is always the employee's responsibility to ensure that they pay their income tax, employee's PRSI and USC.

Seve OB

Brian Victorious Reptile wrote: »

Personal experience. You are giving the OP very poor advice, as responsibility for underpayment of income tax, employee's PRSI and USC lies with the employee. Nothing in the documents you linked to contradicts this (and the SW 88 PDF you shared seems to be very out of date, as it predates PMOD).


While it is the employer's responsibility to deduct income tax, employee's PRSI and USC, as described in The Employers’ Guide to PAYE that you shared, if an employer fails to do so, they can be penalised with fines. However, the employer will only be liable for the amount of an underpayment of income tax, employee's PRSI and USC where they deducted it from the employee's wage but did not remit it to Revenue.



It is always the employee's responsibility to ensure that they pay their income tax, employee's PRSI and USC.

And what do you do for a living?

IITYWYBMAD

Seve OB wrote: »

And what do you do for a living?

I'm an employer. The payment of tax is the sole responsibility of the employee. Employers do have responsibilities to employees, revenue and CRO in this regard, however, if the correct tax is not being deducted, or (as it appears in this case) no tax is being deducted, it is the responsibility of the employee to ensure that this is addressed.

thesimpsons

Payslips are almost irrelevant now with PAYE modernisation as you can go online to My Account and check on a weekly/monthly basis, your gross earnings, tax/usc/prsi, er prsi deductions. If an employee does not see this information in their My Account online, you can be sure the employer is not operating payroll in any way correctly.

The new PAYE system is very user friendly for both the employer (if he is operating correctly) and for the employee to keep a constant check that their pay and taxes are correct. At the end of the day, it is solely the responsibility of the employee to ensure they are paying the correct taxes and while Revenue are helpful in working out repayment plans, they will want the money paid.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I've been thinking.

Are you sure you're really an employee?

If you're the only employee in Ireland, then are you really working under their direction, in their premises, using their tools etc (full criteria here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/self-assessment-and-self-employment/documents/code-of-practice-on-employment-status.pdf )


Could it be that they're treating you as a self-employed contractor instead? Even if they haven't asked you to invoice them before getting paid (which in most places, they should)?

CiarraiAbu2

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

I'm an employer. The payment of tax is the sole responsibility of the employee. Employers do have responsibilities to employees, revenue and CRO in this regard, however, if the correct tax is not being deducted, or (as it appears in this case) no tax is being deducted, it is the responsibility of the employee to ensure that this is addressed.

Not once in 25 years have I seen an employee been brought up for this, it's the employers problem not the employees if no tax is been deducted. If the wrong credits were used or cut off than the employee would have been responsible for what small amount is due but with the new system those days should be gone.

IITYWYBMAD

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

Not once in 25 years have I seen an employee been brought up for this, it's the employers problem not the employees if no tax is been deducted. If the wrong credits were used or cut off than the employee would have been responsible for what small amount is due but with the new system those days should be gone.

You're incorrect in what you say above. As an aside,what you say is not what I claimed. Tax can be deducted form the employee on a weekly/monthly basis and not handed over to revenue. This does not absolve the employer from action. However, it is the employees responsibility to ensure that the correct deductions are being made and paid to revenue. Ask your accountant.

ahnowbrowncow

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

You're incorrect in what you say above. As an aside,what you say is not what I claimed. Tax can be deducted form the employee on a weekly/monthly basis and not handed over to revenue. This does not absolve the employer from action. However, it is the employees responsibility to ensure that the correct deductions are being made and paid to revenue. Ask your accountant.

You are incorrect. It is the employer's obligation to deduct tax but you are correct in saying that it can be deducted from the employee in certain situations such as
"Revenue Commissioners, on being satisfied that the employer took reasonable care to comply with the provisions of these regulations and that the under deduction was due to an error in good faith, may direct that the amount of excess shall be recovered from the employee"

Have a read of these.

S.I. No. 559/2001 - Income tax regulations, 2001
S.I. No. 345/2018 - Income tax (employments) regulations 2018
TCA 1997 part 42

And as the previous poster has said, I also have not seen an employee being pursued for under payment of tax except for incorrect credits/ cut off point being claimed.

It is in the employee's interest to get this sorted but it is certainly the employer's responsibility to ensure the correct deduction of tax.

I don't see anything to suggest the OP is a contractor, or the employer is treating them as one. The OP is not invoicing them, no mention of IT returns, previously employed before taking this current role. Employer likely paying them with regular frequency with consistent amounts.