One in nine children brought up in home with no working adult

ILoveYourVibes

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-nine-children-brought-up-in-home-with-no-working-adult-38828357.html

That's a shocking figure. Why is there so many jobless households? Is it because the benefits are too high to give up for a job or because of a demotivated workforce?

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ireland-s-economy/
Ireland’s economy is outperforming most other Eurozone countries with almost full employment and rising real wages.

I for one would be grateful if people would stop patronizing people who are unemployed or long time unemployed.

I mean i would respect it more if people erupted into hatred and lemon sucking in a twisted on going loop that they could never escape from.

People are long term unemployed because they never got skills that they could use. They are carers who are needed at home. They are housewives looking after children. They are people with social issues. People whose own parents never worked. They are single mothers looking after children.

Now you know. You can stop being so curious.

suicide_circus

What happened to these people prior to social welfare?

Irishphotodesk

suicide_circus wrote: »

What happened to these people prior to social welfare?

They died and were unable to vote.

Welfare was brought in as a short term measure, if there was a proper root and branch analysis (of civil service pay structures and welfare payments) it would astound many of you.

Personally, I think it's about time a full review of various tax loopholes/dodges and extras our civil servants can claim, then move on to review the social classes and their payment system.

How many people out there believe a politician earning approx €80k a year should also be permitted to claim a new mobile phone every 12/18months, how many politicians should be in receipt of dry cleaning allowances, clothing allowances, not to mention claiming mileage to goto work, the system is a complete farce.

I see many people willing to bash the social class, yet many are ignorant of the many other drains on public finances.

I'm self employed and do not qualify for any benefits, I work 6 days a week and have been doing so for about 15years. My take home is about 37k a year.... I work my a$$ off to put food on the table for my family and yes, it pi$$es me off to hear of the many different types of people using the systems to maximize their personal situation, there are too many people lining their own pockets and too many blind eyes turned within the system.

Eric Cartman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I for one would be grateful if people would stop patronizing people who are unemployed or long time unemployed.

I mean i would respect it more if people erupted into hatred and lemon sucking in a twisted on going loop that they could never escape from.

People are long term unemployed because they never got skills that they could use. They are carers who are needed at home. They are housewives looking after children. They are people with social issues. People whose own parents never worked. They are single mothers looking after children.

Now you know. You can stop being so curious.

People are long term ubemployed are usually their through their own inaction and poor decisions, especially anyone under the age of 40 now, weve had a robust training framework for decades now, contraception has been legal for over 20 years, theres very little excuse

AulWan

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

If there was a proper root and branch analysis (of civil service pay structures and welfare payments) it would astound many of you.

Personally, I think it's about time a full review of various tax loopholes/dodges and extras our civil servants can claim, then move on to review the social classes and their payment system..

Please elaborate on all these extras that civil servants can apparantly claim.

I've been a civil servant for over 30 years, some of them working in the department of social welfare itself, and yet I'm unaware of these "extras" you speak off.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

In regards to being lazy, laziness is actually natural as an animal, take dogs and lions for example, they lay about most of the day preserving their energy, I don't know why humans are expected to run themselves into the ground. It is natural and sensible to take the easier option just like what those single mothers do.

In my case, I do have to work, so I can keep my parents off my back as they are old school hard working types plus I would like to go on some expensive holidays, etc which isn't possible with the dole. Another obstacle is my depression, I have brutal morning depression, my mind is in tatters in the morning and the only way I will be able to hold down a job is with anti depressants. Working in the evening isn't as bad though, it is a more relaxed life style that isn't as hectic however I still would need anti depressants to hold down an evening job long term too. I never even told the dole about my depression, I wonder what they would say.

This is why a universal basic income would be great for me. I had to take time off work recently for stress leave and how productive I was actually astonished me. I had two weeks at first that my doctor recommended and then I had to jump through hoops and show Medmark I was fit to work, so their appointment was another fortnight coming. It was the most enjoyable month of my life and I have art, music, experiences and writing to show for it. I'm very sad to be back to work but there's no escape from working life to be able to do what I really want. It's just not immediately profitable.

I get the same way as you in that during the journey to my job, I get intensely depressed, apprehensive, sometimes even have panic attacks. I don't get medication for it but I'm going to counselling. I still don't think counselling will help me to reconcile what I feel is a societal flaw we're all subjected to, everyone having to just work until we're ****ing basically dead.

Ush1

Stephanie Clever Igloo wrote: »

This is why a universal basic income would be great for me. I had to take time off work recently for stress leave and how productive I was actually astonished me. I had two weeks at first that my doctor recommended and then I had to jump through hoops and show Medmark I was fit to work, so their appointment was another fortnight coming. It was the most enjoyable month of my life and I have art, music, experiences and writing to show for it. I'm very sad to be back to work but there's no escape from working life to be able to do what I really want. It's just not immediately profitable.

I get the same way as you in that during the journey to my job, I get intensely depressed, apprehensive, sometimes even have panic attacks. I don't get medication for it but I'm going to counselling. I still don't think counselling will help me to reconcile what I feel is a societal flaw we're all subjected to, everyone having to just work until we're ****ing basically dead.

How would that help you(or anyone actually)?

Jinglejangle69

Stephanie Clever Igloo wrote: »

This is why a universal basic income would be great for me. I had to take time off work recently for stress leave and how productive I was actually astonished me. I had two weeks at first that my doctor recommended and then I had to jump through hoops and show Medmark I was fit to work, so their appointment was another fortnight coming. It was the most enjoyable month of my life and I have art, music, experiences and writing to show for it. I'm very sad to be back to work but there's no escape from working life to be able to do what I really want. It's just not immediately profitable.

I get the same way as you in that during the journey to my job, I get intensely depressed, apprehensive, sometimes even have panic attacks. I don't get medication for it but I'm going to counselling. I still don't think counselling will help me to reconcile what I feel is a societal flaw we're all subjected to, everyone having to just work until we're ****ing basically dead.

Ah would you give it over.

You want us all to work and pay for your art lifestyle because your depressed in work?

Jesus I've heard it all now.

lainey_d_123

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I am from Northern Ireland, we had Job Seekers Allowance up until last year when the English Universal Credit system was brought in, it is quite different to the old system and the job centre even closed for a while for renovation for it. It is all online now, you have to record 35 hours of job search online whereas in the past you wrote it down in booklets.

I have been on the dole on and off for 5 years, during that time I've had 8 jobs, the longest lasting 7 months. It is harder that you think to hold down a minimum wage manual labor job because you need to be fit and work at a fast pace for 8 hours, if you are not much use then the bosses (usually europens) get fed up with you and they just ring the recruitment agency who then text you saying the company aren't in need of you anymore, it is all very sneaky and underhand. They don't have patience because they can just bring in another European to do the job, a low skilled native isn't needed by society anymore even though our ancestors built the country.

I get £317 per month on dole as a single man, in my case working is a financial advantage because I would get at least £260pw working whereas on dole it is around £75pw. I live in fathers house so I don't get the housing credit payments or child benefit payments.

My uncle is an alcoholic and hasn't been able to work for 10 years, the government give him extra money for his alcohol problem, I don't know what it is, my mother told me that. I am surprised they don't force you to go into rehab if you are in that situation. In his case going back to work would be terrible as he would be working for less than he got over those 10 years.

My sister said that her brother in law scams the system, him and his wife pretend that they are separated and they have the letters delivered to the mothers address. He must have told the government that he lives in mothers house when he doesn't.

In regards to being lazy, laziness is actually natural as an animal, take dogs and lions for example, they lay about most of the day preserving their energy, I don't know why humans are expected to run themselves into the ground. It is natural and sensible to take the easier option just like what those single mothers do.

In my case, I do have to work, so I can keep my parents off my back as they are old school hard working types plus I would like to go on some expensive holidays, etc which isn't possible with the dole. Another obstacle is my depression, I have brutal morning depression, my mind is in tatters in the morning and the only way I will be able to hold down a job is with anti depressants. Working in the evening isn't as bad though, it is a more relaxed life style that isn't as hectic however I still would need anti depressants to hold down an evening job long term too. I never even told the dole about my depression, I wonder what they would say.

I'm sorry but I will never, ever understand this attitude.

You said yourself, you're not much use compared to the 'Europeans' but instead of seeing it as your own problem (which it is), you blame them?

You've chosen to remain unskilled and uneducated but at the same time are unwilling to put in the physical labour required in these kinds of jobs to be productive and competitive? You think you should get special treatment because your ancestors built the country (who gives a flying feck)?

You're basically admitting that you think the world owes you a living here, tbh. Those of us who worked hard and worked through physical and mental health issues and all kinds of other problems to be able to better our situation and contribute to society understandably have little patience with attitudes like this.

lainey_d_123

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ah would you give it over.

You want us all to work and pay for your art lifestyle because your depressed in work?

Jesus I've heard it all now.

Ah but he's speshul, doncha know?

The rest of us never get sick or depressed or fed up with work...we should all be happy to work our arses off so special people like him can enjoy art and music on our dime.

Pawwed Rig

AulWan wrote: »

Please elaborate on all these extras that civil servants can apparantly claim.

Mileage and subsistence rates are better than most private companies. Pensions are better, leave entitlements are better, tolerance of poor performance is widespread. Sick days are expected.......

AulWan

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Mileage and subsistence rates are better than most private companies. Pensions are better, leave entitlements are better, tolerance of poor performance is widespread. Sick days are expected.......

30 years, never once claimed mileage or subsistence, which actually isn't that great. If a civil servant does have to travel they are entitled to be reimbursed for this. (travel is not part of every role). I deal with paying private companies for services all the time who charge far higher rates for both.

Pensions are great - another absolute myth and there is a specific thread about that at the moment.

Annual Leave is average. There is an intensive performance management system in place, and sick leave is strictly monitored.

And NONE of this has anything to do with "extra claims". I repeat, utter bull**** and just the usual civil service bashing.

I've been listening to this bull**** for 30 years, yet when I was processing claims in social welfare, there were some claimants with the same family circumstances as mine, taking home more then I was being paid for working full time.

ILoveYourVibes

suicide_circus wrote: »

What happened to these people prior to social welfare?

Maggie laundries workhouses death etc.

CrankyHaus

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Maggie laundries workhouses death etc.

I think rather than looking at as a question of workhouses vs what we have now we should look at it as a matter of what we have vs comparable European countries with better social safety nets but less of a culture of lifelong multi-generational welfare dependancy. Study what they do different and consider emulating it.

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

What happened to these people prior to social welfare?

By 'these people' you mean you and me.

Likely we'd see an upsurge in crime as people struggle to feed themselves.

Imagine the income lost to private landlords and vulture funds if we took away rent subsidies and/or social housing buys/leases? Business would need up their minimum wage so workers could function for example. We'd need do away with retirement. Just let people work until they dropped, then leave them in a ditch. The same for the sick.

Eric Cartman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Maggie laundries workhouses death etc.

For a tiny minority, most worked.young people in romania have almost no welfare options and most either find work or create themselves jobs with a bit of initiative, have seen it first hand and explaining to them what we get here they think its lazy.

CrankyHaus

Matt Barrett wrote: »

By 'these people' you mean you and me.

Likely we'd see an upsurge in crime as people struggle to feed themselves.

Imagine the income lost to private landlords and vulture funds if we took away rent subsidies and/or social housing buys/leases? Business would need up their minimum wage so workers could function for example. We'd need do away with retirement. Just let people work until they dropped, then leave them in a ditch. The same for the sick.

We could have a better social safety net that does more for all of us, including working people, and does not incentivize lifelong welfare dependancy and one parent families (which themselves are two major contributors to crime) and does not subsidize the profits of Private Landlords and Vulture Funds.

strandroad

CrankyHaus wrote: »

We could have a better social safety net that does more for all of us, including working people, and does not incentivize lifelong welfare dependancy and one parent families (which themselves are two major contributors to crime) and does not subsidize the profits of Private Landlords and Vulture Funds.

Agreed, it's the lifelong nature of some supports that perpetuates the dependency culture across generations. Unless you are disabled, there should be no lifelong unemployment support (see many European countries, where it start high as a percentage of income lost, and then tapers off).
There should be no houses handed for life either, instead we should have basic sturdy cost rentals where you are reassessed every 10 or 15 years so that accommodation size is matched to needs and this lunacy of single occupancy 3 bed social houses is eliminated (see the stats for that, it's mind boggling).

dodderangler

Well sometimes child care is too expensive so if one parent makes enough money to support them all then the other parent doesn't need to work. Saves getting g kids minded to work.
Not everyone is a lazy fcuker

Boggles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

For a tiny minority, most worked.young people in romania have almost no welfare options and most either find work or create themselves jobs with a bit of initiative, have seen it first hand and explaining to them what we get here they think its lazy.

Yes we should aspire to be Romania.

Pawwed Rig

AulWan wrote: »

30 years, never once claimed mileage or subsistence, which actually isn't that great. If a civil servant does have to travel they are entitled to be reimbursed for this. (travel is not part of every role). I deal with paying private companies for services all the time who charge far higher rates for both.

Pensions are great - another absolute myth and there is a specific thread about that at the moment.

Annual Leave is average. There is an intensive performance management system in place, and sick leave is strictly monitored.

Civil service mileage rates are the maximum allowable before BIK kicks in. I work in a tax practice and they are far in excess of what any of the 500 or so companies I come across pay.

Pensions are phenomenal. Try and price how much a equivalent pension would cost were you to finance it yourself.

Holidays are out of this world when you include flexidays. Bear in mind the statutory minimum is 20 days. Including flexi days I have family members who come out with 40!

It is a mass delusion if you think you are hard done by. And performance management is a joke. You would want to be a complete cabbage to ever lose your job. The only way you could actually do this is to try very hard to be as useless as possible.

I won't even go into the popping back into work to clock out that seems to exist in certain sections.

James Brown

CrankyHaus wrote: »

We could have a better social safety net that does more for all of us, including working people, and does not incentivize lifelong welfare dependancy and one parent families (which themselves are two major contributors to crime) and does not subsidize the profits of Private Landlords and Vulture Funds.

Agreed. I just think it's a waste of time whinging about the recipients of welfare like they set the eligibility criteria themselves.

James Brown

strandroad wrote: »

Agreed, it's the lifelong nature of some supports that perpetuates the dependency culture across generations. Unless you are disabled, there should be no lifelong unemployment support (see many European countries, where it start high as a percentage of income lost, and then tapers off).
There should be no houses handed for life either, instead we should have basic sturdy cost rentals where you are reassessed every 10 or 15 years so that accommodation size is matched to needs and this lunacy of single occupancy 3 bed social houses is eliminated (see the stats for that, it's mind boggling).

This is what we have now.
There is a problem that some game or defraud the system that could be policed better. Again, on the state and LA's not the recipients IMO.
Look at Dara Murphy, he did nothing wrong. Blaming him or Margret Cash might look good but achieves absolutely nothing as they did nothing illegal.

Eric Cartman

Boggles wrote: »

Yes we should aspire to be Romania.

Their work ethic absolutely yes.

AulWan

CrankyHaus wrote: »

We could have a better social safety net that does more for all of us, including working people, and does not incentivize lifelong welfare dependancy and one parent families (which themselves are two major contributors to crime) and does not subsidize the profits of Private Landlords and Vulture Funds.

As long as while they are at it, they also stop incentivizing two parent families by allowing one of them to voluntarily opt out of the workforce completely (no questions asked) while the other half sticks in a claim for WFP to supplement the second lost income.

And they are allowed to do this from the day the children are born until their 23rd birthday, unlike one parent families, who were told that it was unacceptable to be a stay at home parent after their children were age 7, and they had to look for work. Yet no such condition is put on two parent families claiming WFP.

Also, I'd be interested in a link to prove your claim about one parent families being major contributors to crime.

splinter65

suicide_circus wrote: »

What happened to these people prior to social welfare?

They went to England mostly and initially got jobs labouring(the men) or in the hospitality industry (the women). There were literally 1000s of factory type jobs too. There was never any problem getting a job in the uk for Irish people irregardless of your talents abilities experience or qualifications.

splinter65

AulWan wrote: »

As long as while they are at it, they also stop incentivizing two parent families by allowing one of them to voluntarily opt out of the workforce completely (no questions asked) while the other half sticks in a claim for WFP to supplement the second lost income.

And they are allowed to do this from the day the children are born until their 23rd birthday, unlike one parent families, who were told that it was unacceptable to be a stay at home parent after their children were age 7, and they had to look for work. Yet no such condition is put on two parent families claiming WFP.

Also, I'd be interested in a link to prove your claim about one parent families being major contributors to crime.

Absolutely nothing to stop a OPF claimant from getting a job 20 hours a week and claiming WFP as well as the OPF.
A lone parent can work 20 hours @minimum wage =€200, claim OPF of €221.50 and WFP of €66. That’s income of €487 per week for working 20 hours.
Also OPFP claimants with the youngest child aged < 7 don’t have to be available for work. They do have to engage with SW as regards training and education but all the courses and training are fitted around primary school schedules so it shouldn’t be a problem.

splinter65

Boggles wrote: »

Yes we should aspire to be Romania.

What’s wrong with Romania?

runawaybishop

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Civil service mileage rates are the maximum allowable before BIK kicks in. I work in a tax practice and they are far in excess of what any of the 500 or so companies I come across pay.

Pensions are phenomenal. Try and price how much a equivalent pension would cost were you to finance it yourself.

Holidays are out of this world when you include flexidays. Bear in mind the statutory minimum is 20 days. Including flexi days I have family members who come out with 40!

It is a mass delusion if you think you are hard done by. And performance management is a joke. You would want to be a complete cabbage to ever lose your job. The only way you could actually do this is to try very hard to be as useless as possible.

I won't even go into the popping back into work to clock out that seems to exist in certain sections.

I am public sector now, used to be private. Lot of nonsense spouted about this.


Milage rates are great, but you must take public transport so its irrelevant. Overnight rate is 147 euro, that is for accomodation and food.

Pension is great if you started years ago, not so great for relatively new joiners.

Holidays are like 23 days for most people, rising to 29 for senior management. Senior management do not get flexitime. Flexitime for those that have it must be worked up. It's not free holidays.

Much like in the private sector, once you pass probation you'd have to be an idiot to get fired.

Sick leave is heavily monitored. Excess days in a year means you fail probation or your increment is stopped. You can be let go for excessive sick leave.

No idea about clocking, firing offense as far as I know.

aaakev

dodderangler wrote: »

Well sometimes child care is too expensive so if one parent makes enough money to support them all then the other parent doesn't need to work. Saves getting g kids minded to work.
Not everyone is a lazy fcuker

That's my exact situation, 3 kids, wife at home running the house and looking after kids and I work. Suits us perfect and we count ourselves lucky to be able to do it!

Not sure that's what anyone is saying is wrong though.....