Australia bushfires

Muahahaha

Ineedaname wrote: »

You can thank Rupert Murdoch for that. It's scary the control he has over the Aussie media. He has a massive influence on who gets elected.

The coal industry has massive clout too. Think it was Labour/Julia Gillard who tried to introduce a 10% tax on them to pay for a school and hospital building program and the lobbyists from the coal industry managed to scupper it. 10% was nothing in the context of the billions of profit theyve had during the mining boom but they still worked hard to shut it down and won out in the end.

JJayoo

Das Reich wrote: »

Didn't see Macron or any country blaming the Australian government like they did with Brazil. Strange.

Because they set the fires in Brazil deliberately to clear forest for cattle grazing and to cover areas that were illegally logged.

Maybe it's not strange, maybe you're just not getting your info from an unbiased source

Das Reich

JJayoo wrote: »

Because they set the fires in Brazil deliberately to clear forest for cattle grazing and to cover areas that were illegally logged.

Maybe it's not strange, maybe you're just not getting your info from an unbiased source

The NGOs? They not not farm cattle there, they just there for what's under the soil. Anyway, nothing to do with topic, why Macron not provoking and critisizing Australia government if they are so worried with global warming? Where are all those NGOs? It seems the fires were not really the problem then.

kildare lad

Das Reich wrote: »

Didn't see Macron or any country blaming the Australian government like they did with Brazil. Strange.

That's because the Brazilian president was actively encouraging deforestation.

Pauliedragon

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There are firefighters from NZ in Oz every year.

There was more sent yesterday.

rossie1977

Das Reich wrote: »

The NGOs? They not not farm cattle there, they just there for what's under the soil. Anyway, nothing to do with topic, why Macron not provoking and critisizing Australia government if they are so worried with global warming? Where are all those NGOs? It seems the fires were not really the problem then.

What are you talking about?

The Brazilian government encouraged farmers to set the Amazonian fires, the Australian government didn't. They are two completely different things altogether.

Amazonian fires were important ecause Brazil is destroying a huge part of this planets ecology that can never be replaced. As bad as the Australian government and PM are they aren't doing that and the massive fires raging across aren't their fault but the result of humans dumping unsustainable amounts of co2 into the atmosphere over the past 120 years.

ChikiChiki

JJayoo wrote: »

These towns that have been hit by the fires are they situated in the middle of forests?

Periously close to Sydney are the Blue Mountains fires. There were active fires earlier in Whetherill Park which is in the Sydney suburban area and very built up.

Penrith in Western Sydney reached a record high temp of 48 degrees today.

European aerial firefighting resources should be dispatched right away imo.

Mooooo

rossie1977 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

The Brazilian government encouraged farmers to set the Amazonian fires, the Australian government didn't. They are two completely different things altogether.

Amazonian fires were important ecause Brazil is destroying a huge part of this planets ecology that can never be replaced. As bad as the Australian government and PM are they aren't doing that and the massive fires raging across aren't their fault but the result of humans dumping unsustainable amounts of co2 into the atmosphere over the past 120 years.

I understood the reason for the scale of these fires is that controlled burning, which had even been carried out by aboriginal people before European settlement, to remove any build up of dead scrub had been banned which lead to a tinder box scenario on a massive scale

Das Reich

rossie1977 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

The Brazilian government encouraged farmers to set the Amazonian fires, the Australian government didn't. They are two completely different things altogether.

Amazonian fires were important ecause Brazil is destroying a huge part of this planets ecology that can never be replaced. As bad as the Australian government and PM are they aren't doing that and the massive fires raging across aren't their fault but the result of humans dumping unsustainable amounts of co2 into the atmosphere over the past 120 years.

Encouraging? They were actually spending a lot with thousands of men fighting the fires and arresting criminals payed by foreigners NGO to destabilize the country. Also, what's the proportion on Australian land covered by forests in comparison to Brazil? Near nothing. It means the effect is much bigger there. Also, most of the tiny Australian forest in fire are close to Ocean, while the fires in Brazil were mostly thousands of km inside, in low populated areas without resources to fight the fire. Its inadmissible that rich countries like Australia or USA, with very small forested areas, and close to the Ocean, get a lot of fires and the environmentalists NGO just stay silent.

Guy:Incognito

ChikiChiki wrote: »

European aerial firefighting resources should be dispatched right away imo.

Is that even an option? Presumably these things are not built to fly around the world? How long would it take to get them there?


EDIT. just realised there was a "not" missing in there changing the whole meaning

mikhail

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is that even an option? Presumably these things are built to fly around the world? How long would it take to get them there?

Over a month by ship. I don't know if they're transportable any other way. It'd be nice if it's possible - they're not much needed in Europe in winter.

mandrake04

ricero wrote: »

What's it like in Sydney? Is the air pollution bad ? I say plenty of work is being disrupted if it is.

I live in Sydney.

There were a few bad days I think 10th Dec in particular was very bad it was like a fog that irritate your throat, but mostly its more just smell of smoke and it’s not every day.

Discodog

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is that even an option? Presumably these things are not built to fly around the world? How long would it take to get them there?


EDIT. just realised there was a "not" missing in there changing the whole meaning

The problem is water not aircraft. Helicopters have even been using swimming pools. Firefighting needs huge amounts of water. These fires burn at such a temperature that most of the water just turns to steam.

rossie1977

rossie1977 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

The Brazilian government encouraged farmers to set the Amazonian fires, the Australian government didn't. They are two completely different things altogether.

Amazonian fires were important ecause Brazil is destroying a huge part of this planets ecology that can never be replaced. As bad as the Australian government and PM are they aren't doing that and the massive fires raging across aren't their fault but the result of humans dumping unsustainable amounts of co2 into the atmosphere over the past 120 years.

This has happened before to this scale, if it's climate change what amount do you apportion to it?

mandrake04

rossie1977 wrote: »

As bad as the Australian government and PM are they aren't doing that and the massive fires raging across aren't their fault but the result of humans dumping unsustainable amounts of co2 into the atmosphere over the past 120 years.

As bad as this is it’s purely the scale of human and property loss this is a disaster, when it comes to fauna and indigenous animals it’s it can recover... it’s actually beneficial Australia would be worse off without fire. Fire produces regeneration and diversity.



I took this picture today just off the PAC Hwy North of Yamba NSW this burned last month, I stopped of here about 6 months ago and you couldn’t see never mind walk through the bush as you can see the trees are burned but they have evolved to tolerate fire and will survive to be burned many times again. From an animal point of view a lot of animals have been lost but when the area regenerates the wildlife will backfill more quickly as the ground bush is more accessible this ensures diversity in the gene pool. This has been going on for 1000’s of years, bushfires used to happen ore frequently as Black fella would manage the land, as I said earlier in this thread some of the areas burned back in 2013 and before that 2002/2003 yet they burned again and will in the future.

Fires like this have been happening since before Black Fella set foot on this land, plants don’t evolve to weather fire in just 50,000 years.

Andrew00

There's been so little talk about this really when you think about it? Just look at this forum for example this thread was only made 2 days ago

500 million animals killed. I never get upset by stuff online etc but I've shed a tear at some of the pictures of this.

Why isn't UK, USA or the EU sending aid or assistance

mandrake04

Andrew00 wrote: »

Why isn't UK, USA or the EU sending aid or assistance

NZ, Canadian and US fire fighters already been here since last month.

Sheridan81

I don't know why they're bothering with so many of these helicopters dumping water and stuff. They should be going to church and praying the rosary for rain. Seems like they've just panicked and ignored God. It's a sad, secular time we live in.

drunkmonkey

Don't build your house in a bush, same story as here, don't build your house on a flood plain and expect it not to flood.
I've driven through a bush fire somewhere between Cairns and Darwin, scary experience as I was in the middle of no where. Only went on for a few miles and a road truck was a bit in front of me, scariest thing was wondering would a road truck come the other direction through the smoke and clean us off.
It was close to 50 degrees by the time we arrived in Darwin, literally didn't open the windows once indoors as it was like opening an oven door. The lightning was unreal.
I don't buy the people pointing to what's happening and saying it's a result of climate change. It's nature.

aido79

Sheridan81 wrote: »

I don't know why they're bothering with so many of these helicopters dumping water and stuff. They should be going to church and praying the rosary for rain. Seems like they've just panicked and ignored God. It's a sad, secular time we live in.

Is that you Scott?

silverharp

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213640126955307011

there is an arson element for sure

https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/01/we-dont-just-have-a-bushfire-crisis-we-have-an-arson-crisis-too/

According to my calculations and estimates, the number of individuals around Australia whose arson has contributed to the current bushfire crisis has now passed 200.


This figure is not presented as a counter-argument to those who blame the fires on climate change. Most people (I hope) understand that trees tend not to spontaneously combust, no matter what the air temperature is; when we talk about bushfires starting naturally, we are talking about lightning strikes igniting tinder. The climate change argument posits that the more extreme weather conditions – higher temperatures, drought and so forth – make fires, however started, much more destructive and much more difficult to control and extinguish. These are debates to be had between climatologists, forestry experts and firefighters.


What is painfully clear, however, that Australia has a firebug crisis. It will no doubt be up to future royal commissions and inquiries to calculate exactly what proportion of the current loss and destruction can be attributed to human action, but I suspect it will be a significant one. Mankind may be causing climate change, but man is most definitely making fires start.


Where’s the proof, you ask? Below is a sample of news reports from around the country over recent months.

Idbatterim

I’m just back from southern Australia. This is so upsetting

Thousands of koalas 'key to future of species' feared dead after bushfires sweep Australian sanctuary https://jrnl.ie/4954040

They can’t reverse the effects of climate change quickly. Assuming they will just have to be far more proactive in future. Get army involved and spend far more money on firefighting planes and equipment...

I wonder are there drone helicopters etc , that could just nearly twenty four hours a day ...

Discodog

Idbatterim wrote: »

I’m just back from southern Australia. This is so upsetting

Thousands of koalas 'key to future of species' feared dead after bushfires sweep Australian sanctuary https://jrnl.ie/4954040

They can’t reverse the effects of climate change quickly. Assuming they will just have to be far more proactive in future. Get army involved and spend far more money on firefighting planes and equipment...

I wonder are there drone helicopters etc , that could just nearly twenty four hours a day ...

There aren't really effective ways to fight these fires. You have to evacuate & let areas burn themselves out. In the high winds these fires will jump huge gaps. Normal firebreaks are useless. Back burning is the only really effective way & that depends on favourable conditions.

There will have to be big changes in allowing regrowth in inhabited areas.

mandrake04

Discodog wrote: »

There aren't really effective ways to fight these fires. You have to evacuate & let areas burn themselves out. In the high winds these fires will jump huge gaps. Normal firebreaks are useless. Back burning is the only really effective way & that depends on favourable conditions.

There will have to be big changes in allowing regrowth in inhabited areas.

That’s most people feelings

Seen this the other day

Alrigghtythen

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/accused-firebug-36-is-arrested-for-sparking-a-blaze-in-victorias-east-gippsland-the-day-after-horrific-bushfires-tore-through-the-area/ar-BBYwK6r


A homeless man has been charged with sparking a bushfire in Victoria's devastated East Gippsland region.

The 36-year-old man was arrested on Punt Road at Johnsonville in the state's east before 7pm on Wednesday.

He has been charged with recklessly cause a bushfire along with drug-related offences and he will appear at Bairnsdale Magistrates Court on Thursday.

Discodog

Arson is a big issue. Apparently, when we had a substancial bog fire, a young guy was spotted on a moped lighting a fire.

Idbatterim

Arson should carry a life sentence! sick bastards !

flazio

I see a lot of posts about a lot of people donating money to the firefighting efforts.
I can't help but think that they might as well load that money onto a plane and dump it on top of the fire for all the good it will do at this stage. What Australia needs is more firefighting equipment and firefighters from other territories.

US2

flazio wrote: »

I see a lot of posts about a lot of people donating money to the firefighting efforts.
I can't help but think that they might as well load that money onto a plane and dump it on top of the fire for all the good it will do at this stage. What Australia needs is more firefighting equipment and firefighters from other territories.

What they need is a change in weather full stop