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Australia bushfires
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mandrake04 wrote: »First your map is wrong, total fires have burnt 12.35 m Ha...Ireland is only 8.4m Ha
Not really that big, really only a camp fire in terms of size. There’s been bigger fires than this in the past.
You keep pedaling the line that it is not much in the grand scheme of Australia, but what you are failing to mention is huge fecking chunks of the country are deserts or as good as a desert.
Where these fires are mainly occurring is either agricultural areas or forestry of some sort and in the areas where most Australians live.
And because it is in forests and agricultural land there is way more wildlife.
You could have a bush fire say West of Alice Springs with feck all effect because the camels, horses, dingos and Red kangaroos could probably move out of the way and the snakes might burrow underground.
And there are shag all people living there to effect.
Thing is there aren't fires there because there is shag all to burn in the first place.
The koala population has been decimated.
A third of koalas in NSW have been wiped out and a third of their habitat has been destroyed.
And probably a huge chunk of grey kangaroos, wombats, wallabies, potoroos have also been affected.I am not allowed discuss …
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You keep pedaling the line that it is not much in the grand scheme of Australia, but what you are failing to mention is huge fecking chunks of the country are deserts or as good as a desert.
Where these fires are mainly occurring is either agricultural areas or forestry of some sort and in the areas where most Australians live.
And because it is in forests and agricultural land there is way more wildlife.
You could have a bush fire say West of Alice Springs with feck all effect because the camels, horses, dingos and Red kangaroos could probably move out of the way and the snakes might burrow underground.
And there are shag all people living there to effect.
Thing is there aren't fires there because there is shag all to burn in the first place.
The koala population has been decimated.
A third of koalas in NSW have been wiped out and a third of their habitat has been destroyed.
And probably a huge chunk of grey kangaroos, wombats, wallabies, potoroos have also been affected.
I already posted in this thread that these current fires have a huge human, property and wildlife cost but other than that bush fires are not unusual and are part of life.
Black Saturday was smaller but deadlier
Black Thursday although 1/2 size burnt at greater rate (entirely in an afternoon)
But as just fires go these current fires are pretty unremarkable, in power, speed and size. Sure desert and rainforest don’t burn but lets compare apples with apples...There seems to be a lot ignorance when it come to size of these fires as being huge or monstrous in fact they are piss all.
Now let’s look at the facts:
Current bushfire 12.34 million Ha
1974/1975 117 million Ha
https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-wales-1974/0 -
mandrake04 wrote: »I already posted in this thread that these current fires have a huge human, property and wildlife cost but other than that bush fires are not unusual and are part of life.
Black Saturday was smaller but deadlier
Black Thursday although 1/2 size burnt at greater rate (entirely in an afternoon)
But as just fires go these current fires are pretty unremarkable, in power, speed and size. Sure desert and rainforest don’t burn but lets compare apples with apples...There seems to be a lot ignorance when it come to size of these fires as being huge or monstrous in fact they are piss all.
Now let’s look at the facts:
Current bushfire 12.34 million Ha
1974/1975 117 million Ha
https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-wales-1974/
Black Thursday was bigger. 15.illion hectares in one day0 -
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mandrake04 wrote: »I already posted in this thread that these current fires have a huge human, property and wildlife cost but other than that bush fires are not unusual and are part of life.
Black Saturday was smaller but deadlier
Black Thursday although 1/2 size burnt at greater rate (entirely in an afternoon)
But as just fires go these current fires are pretty unremarkable, in power, speed and size. Sure desert and rainforest don’t burn but lets compare apples with apples...There seems to be a lot ignorance when it come to size of these fires as being huge or monstrous in fact they are piss all.
Now let’s look at the facts:
Current bushfire 12.34 million Ha
1974/1975 117 million Ha
https://knowledge.aidr.org.au/resources/bushfire-new-south-wales-1974/
For someone that complains about comparing apples with apples you are comparing a fire in 1851 where there were no means of fighting it's spread with fires today where you have aircraft, fire engines and thousands of firefighters.
Also the other thing you are completely ignoring is the time of the season of most of those fires.
Black Thursday was Feb 6th 1851.
1926 bushfires were Feb/March.
Black Friday were Dec/Jan 1938/1939
Even though the 1974/1975 bushfires burned much greater area there were only 6 fatalities in total.
And 45,000,000 of those hectares were in NT and 29,000,000 were in Western Australia.
Basically in the middle of nowhere.
Ash Wednesday Feb 16th 1983.
Black Saturday was Feb 7th to March 2009.
These fires first started in September/October 2019 and were going in earnest throughout December.I am not allowed discuss …
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For someone that complains about comparing apples with apples you are comparing a fire in 1851 where there were no means of fighting it's spread with fires today where you have aircraft, fire engines and thousands of firefighters.
Also the other thing you are completely ignoring is the time of the season of most of those fires.
Black Thursday was Feb 6th 1851.
1926 bushfires were Feb/March.
Black Friday were Dec/Jan 1938/1939
Black Saturday was Feb 7th to March 2009.
These fires first started in September 2019 and were going in earnest throughout December.
(a) Black Thursday is not even my argument... that’s just you looking foolish and throwing in a red herring. But on a side note even if you had modern firefighting equipment on Black Thursday would have been useless, the fire more or less burnt itself out in an afternoon anyway.
(b) I’m comparing 12.34m Ha fire against 117m Ha fire. That’s apple for apples bushfire for bushfire when it comes to comparing size.
Will current fire burn to that size? I seriously doubt it.
The human, property and animal cost have already been addressed, this fire is very costly. But my point was purely on size.
We can carry on if you want.0 -
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The most poignant image is of a tiny girl, no more than a toddler, in a white dress, and a large man in a resplendent uniform pinning a medal on her chest. In the background her father's coffin covered in flowers. One of the voluntary firefighters killed in the fire..The second such award. Sheer heroism
An Irish paramedic living and working over there wrote movingly of the sheer dedication of voluntary firefighters in this ongoing disaster Working long hours until they literally dropped, curling up on the ground with a folded jacket as a pillow, catching a few hours sleep then up and at it again .
And now they are culling thousands of camels.. cannot post links.
The ramifications of the fires are infinite. And no end in sight.0 -
The most poignant image is of a tiny girl, no more than a toddler, in a white dress, and a large man in a resplendent uniform pinning a medal on her chest. In the background her father's coffin covered in flowers. One of the voluntary firefighters killed in the fire..The second such award. Sheer heroism
An Irish paramedic living and working over there wrote movingly of the sheer dedication of voluntary firefighters in this ongoing disaster Working long hours until they literally dropped, curling up on the ground with a folded jacket as a pillow, catching a few hours sleep then up and at it again .
And now they are culling thousands of camels.. cannot post links.
The ramifications of the fires are infinite. And no end in sight.
The real sad thing is how their sacrifices are being dismissed by their own federal government.
The sheer stupidity and arrogance of Morrison to dismiss the firies is going to finish him and rightly so.
To claim that they wanted to be risking their lives, often abandoning their own property to save others and for most at their own expense coming up to christmas, was quite mind boggling.
He has had to be forced to offer the over 60% of them self employed some form of compensation.
Then he basically insults the NSW Fire Cheif Shane Fitzsimmons, who along with the NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian are coming out of this with enhanced reputations.
And in the process Morrison manages to p*ss off the armed forces to boot.
He is a lesson in how not to manage a catastrophic disaster.
Hell he makes George W look like a genius.
BTW the camels are being culled because of drought.
It is like how lots of stations out in the outback have gotten rid of most of their stock over the last few years simply because they can't afford to feed and water them or else watch them die.
The outback is going to be devoid of animals.I am not allowed discuss …
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These men do not think of any of this. And do not see it as sacrifice either. They just see a need and pitch in. NB I do not listen to politiicans, ever .
Courage like that needs no reward, NO heroism does
We honour these men, deeply and fully. Many owe their lives to their sheer selfless courage and really no reward could "reward" that.
Yes I understand re the camels but it is heartbreaking as all loss of critters is. They are not native to Australia and should never been introduced there. At least our rogue rhodies do not bleed. Just loss and death and more loss and death.
When we had that spate of serious gorse arson fires in Kerry I lived alongside the national park and early one morning the sky was fired red in all directions. Just a hint of what is in Australia And today worse than ever
We pray on. .The real sad thing is how their sacrifices are being dismissed by their own federal government.
The sheer stupidity and arrogance of Morrison to dismiss the firies is going to finish him and rightly so.
To claim that they wanted to be risking their lives, often abandoning their own property to save others and for most at their own expense coming up to christmas, was quite mind boggling.
He has had to be forced to offer the over 60% of them self employed some form of compensation.
Then he basically insults the NSW Fire Cheif Shane Fitzsimmons, who along with the NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian are coming out of this with enhanced reputations.
And in the process Morrison manages to p*ss off the armed forces to boot.
He is a lesson in how not to manage a catastrophic disaster.
Hell he makes George W look like a genius.
BTW the camels are being culled because of drought.
It is like how lots of stations out in the outback have gotten rid of most of their stock over the last few years simply because they can't afford to feed and water them or else watch them die.
The outback is going to be devoid of animals.0 -
These men do not think of any of this. And do not see it as sacrifice either. They just see a need and pitch in. NB I do not listen to politiicans, ever .
Courage like that needs no reward, NO heroism does
We honour these men, deeply and fully. Many owe their lives to their sheer selfless courage and really no reward could "reward" that.
When I say reward I mean that they get some sort of financial compensation for the fact that they are not able to earn a living and pay their bills.
The fact that a lot of them were not able to earn in December would be difficult come Christmas.
Well meaning wishes, thoughts and prayers do not pay bills and even worse when lots of these guys (men and women - don't think this is all just your good old Aussie blokes) will be facing financial losses themselves due to the fire damage.
And worse still it is an insult when the leader of your country thinks that they are just out there for the hell of it.
They have no choice as there is no one else to protect their communities.
And to add insult to injury the same leader fooks off on a nice holiday break whilst they get to spend the week inhaling smoke, the same amount as someone on maybe 50 to 100 cigarettes a day, with very little support in terms of equipment.
Some of those guys have one fire suit, one mask, often and ill fitting basic one at that.
They deserve better from their country's leader.I am not allowed discuss …
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So will anything he done to manage the forests that have burnt? Things such as fire brakes or choke points ? Or will it be handier to blame climate change and just let the forests regrow and wait for.the inevitable.0
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I know what you meant; but that is not how they see it clearly.
We have no powers; only prayers and wishes which we give as freely as they give their work
And you will see that Australia is more than capable and appreciative in practical ways than you give them credit for.
Over and out from me.When I say reward I mean that they get some sort of financial compensation for the fact that they are not able to earn a living and pay their bills.
The fact that a lot of them were not able to earn in December would be difficult come Christmas.
Well meaning wishes, thoughts and prayers do not pay bills and even worse when lots of these guys (men and women - don't think this is all just your good old Aussie blokes) will be facing financial losses themselves due to the fire damage.
And worse still it is an insult when the leader of your country thinks that they are just out there for the hell of it.
They have no choice as there is no one else to protect their communities.
And to add insult to injury the same leader fooks off on a nice holiday break whilst they get to spend the week inhaling smoke, the same amount as someone on maybe 50 to 100 cigarettes a day, with very little support in terms of equipment.
Some of those guys have one fire suit, one mask, often and ill fitting basic one at that.
They deserve better from their country's leader.0 -
You are aware that fighting fires is the responsibility of the individual state governments. The NSW liberal party and the Victorian labor party have been very slow. Why are they not being hammered?The real sad thing is how their sacrifices are being dismissed by their own federal government.
The sheer stupidity and arrogance of Morrison to dismiss the firies is going to finish him and rightly so.
To claim that they wanted to be risking their lives, often abandoning their own property to save others and for most at their own expense coming up to christmas, was quite mind boggling.
He has had to be forced to offer the over 60% of them self employed some form of compensation.
Then he basically insults the NSW Fire Cheif Shane Fitzsimmons, who along with the NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian are coming out of this with enhanced reputations.
And in the process Morrison manages to p*ss off the armed forces to boot.
He is a lesson in how not to manage a catastrophic disaster.
Hell he makes George W look like a genius.
BTW the camels are being culled because of drought.
It is like how lots of stations out in the outback have gotten rid of most of their stock over the last few years simply because they can't afford to feed and water them or else watch them die.
The outback is going to be devoid of animals.0 -
Harry Palmr wrote: »There are probably some ****, because pyromania is quite a powerful compulsion for people.
On the other hand it's probably good to know how fires start in such an environment - the air is full of what are basically mini fire bombs being carried by a high wind and lighting, which is created by the fire, have you seen those fire tornadoes? It's a whole environment of its own
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://barenakedislam.com/2020/01/07/turns-out-at-least-some-of-the-australian-arsonists-are-muslims/&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1579160758945000&usg=AFQjCNFiO-yAAze1COls4Ko7RAX8vNYowQ
Any chance some of the arsonists were jihadi types? According to that yes. Little coverage of that aspect
https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/01/is-there-really-a-bushfire-jihad-taking-place/
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-calls-massive-forest-fires-montana/story?id=16263981
https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/australia/item/34568-aussie-fires-are-caused-by-man-it-s-called-arson-and-green-policy0
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