US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

BloodBath

notobtuse wrote: »

Thank God Trump is in the White House and not the warmonger Hillary Clinton... Ms "We came, we saw, he died."

As if it makes a difference. We have seen US foreign policy does not change regardless of leader or party. When a plan laid out in 2003 is executed under 3 presidents and 2 parties you would have to be very naive to believe the president has any say in any of this.

partyguinness

charlie14 wrote: »

Just in relation to this,


There has been a lot of noise here about the number of Iranian missiles that hit or missed, but I haven`t seen anything claiming the US shot any down.
Some of our resident military/civil aviation authority experts were at great pains prior to this attack by the Iranians to explain to us all the defensive capabilities the US possessed.


Especially with ample warning I find it curious as to there being no mention, (unless I missed it), of any of these missiles being intercepted.


If I was living in the UAE or Saudi where US warplanes are based, when Iran has said they will attack any state that facilitates strikes against them, then I would be more than just a little curious as to why it appears none of those missiles were intercepted last night.

Perhaps the US do not have that particular hardware in the vicinity or perhaps as most people suspect it was face saving- if Iran wants to chuck a few missiles at us with no causalities then that's fine. Iran gets to vent some anger and the US does not get to ship home dead soldiers in an election year.

All a bit of a phoney conclusion.

ArchXStanton

NIMAN wrote: »

Well the mighty Iranian military war machine really showed them Americans, didn't they?

Consider it a warning, if it does come to war... Every country around Iran gets it including Israel

Yurt2

partyguinness wrote: »

A nuke is guaranteed safety and the only sure fire way you will not be invaded or attacked.

Like all bullies, the US doesn't pick fights or attack countries that can actually fight back.

Iran has been acting the maggot in the region and beyond for decades. From funding and orchestrating the activities of Shia militias in countries it wishes to destabilise, to assassinations on the streets of Europe and bombing Jewish community centres in Argentina.

The US have always been clumsy and sometimes act foolishly and hubristically in the Middle East, but the Iran regime is a pile of dog crap.

Are people forgetting that up to 1'500 protestors (Reuters) were gunned down in cities just last month by the Revolutionary Guard?

pearcider

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Consider it a warning, if it does come to war... Every country around Iran gets it including Israel

Iran’s military would be wiped out in a few days of it came to war. Don’t pretend otherwise. The mullahs know full well their grip on power wouldn’t last a month under US bombardment.

partyguinness

notobtuse wrote: »

Thank God Trump is in the White House and not the warmonger Hillary Clinton... Ms "We came, we saw, he died."

So who was the last US President not to launch a military attack?


It is not entirely clear what you are thankful to Trump for especially considering he escalated matters (or rather did what he was told) to this point after last week.

ArchXStanton

Yurt! wrote: »

Iran has been acting the maggot in the region and beyond for decades. From funding and orchestrating the activities of Shia militias in countries it wishes to destabilise, to assassinations on the streets of Europe and bombing Jewish community centres in Argentina.

The US have always been clumsy and sometimes act foolishly and hubristically in the Middle East, but the Iran regime is a pile of dog crap.

Are people forgetting that up to 1'500 protestors (Reuters) were gunned down in cities just last month by the Revolutionary Guard?

Are you forgetting the US meddling in Iran down through the decades and the regimes they installed, the US is no good guy here

BloodBath

Yurt! wrote: »

Iran has been acting the maggot in the region and beyond for decades. From funding and orchestrating the activities of Shia militias in countries it wishes to destabilise, to assassinations on the streets of Europe and bombing Jewish community centres in Argentina.

The US have always been clumsy and sometimes act foolishly and hubristically in the Middle East, but the Iran regime is a pile of dog crap.

Are people forgetting that up to 1'500 protestors (Reuters) were gunned down in cities just last month by the Revolutionary Guard?

What about Saudi Arabia? Double standards much? This has nothing to do with how Iran treats it's citizens.

briany

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Consider it a warning, if it does come to war... Every country around Iran gets it including Israel

Aren't rockets already the second most likely thing to come out of an Israeli sky after rain?

Igotadose

pearcider wrote: »

Iran’s military would be wiped out in a few days of it came to war. Don’t pretend otherwise. The mullahs know full well their grip on power wouldn’t last a month under US bombardment.

We've heard that tune before. "Mission Accomplished," remember that?

ArchXStanton

pearcider wrote: »

Iran’s military would be wiped out in a few days of it came to war. Don’t pretend otherwise. The mullahs know full well their grip on power wouldn’t last a month under US bombardment.

So you keep claiming, if it was that easy I'm sure the US would have taken them out by now, it would be like kicking a hornets nest with proxy forces all across the middle east, attacks in the US itself and hezbolloh with missiles pointed at Israel

alastair

charlie14 wrote: »

Just in relation to this,


There has been a lot of noise here about the number of Iranian missiles that hit or missed, but I haven`t seen anything claiming the US shot any down.
Some of our resident military/civil aviation authority experts were at great pains prior to this attack by the Iranians to explain to us all the defensive capabilities the US possessed.


Especially with ample warning I find it curious as to there being no mention, (unless I missed it), of any of these missiles being intercepted.


If I was living in the UAE or Saudi where US warplanes are based, when Iran has said they will attack any state that facilitates strikes against them, then I would be more than just a little curious as to why it appears none of those missiles were intercepted last night.

The LA Times reported a pentagon source saying that they didn’t try to intercept the missiles. Now that’s really only happening if A. They don’t have kit there capable of hitting the missiles, or B. They decided to let the missiles hit for whatever reason. They certainly used their rapid fire gun turret things on them at the base, and they didn’t have any obvious effect. There’s also phone footage from the base of loud bangs as the missiles were incoming, which presumably are some form of defensive system, but again, they don’t appear to have had any success either. You can’t really see anything, so it’s just sharp bangs and lads getting over-excited.

If I was a cynical I’d be inclined to suggest that it’s implausible that they would just shrug at missiles headed towards their base, which cost all that money, and their service people who were at some risk, and that it’s more likely that whatever they had to counter such an attack simply didn’t work. It’s not like we haven’t been here before.

mondeo

Nice to see Trump with a cool head for a change. If it came to war, of course Iran wouldn't stand a chance anyways. They are lucky they got away with their 22 missed missiles.

quokula

BloodBath wrote: »

Except it has almost nothing to do with Trump. This is part of a long term plan that was laid out in 2003 as detailed by general Wesley Clarke. 7 countries in 10 years was the plan ending with Iran. They have invaded or regime changed 6 of the 7 with Iran left.

This happened under 3 presidents including lord Obama. The presidents have almost no say in US foreign policy.

It was seven countries in 5 years, starting in 2001. So that period ended in 2006, while Bush was still in office - i.e. it was entirely a plan for that administration, and Clarke attributed the plan to Donald Rumsfeld, who also retired from politics in 2006. Clarke also clarified that it wasn't necessarily officially put into action but was the idea Rumsfeld was pushing.

The US also demonstrably haven't invaded or regime changed the other 6 countries in the intervening years.

Cheerful Spring2

Comparison before and after the strike at one area of the base. The missiles were precision to launch 900 miles from Iran and hit inside the base and on target.

NIMAN

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Consider it a warning, if it does come to war... Every country around Iran gets it including Israel

Aye, but it was a bit of a sh1t warning, wasn't it?

Like slapping the ass of an elephant.

Yurt2

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Are you forgetting the US meddling in Iran down through the decades and the regimes they installed, the US is no good guy here

Whataboutery. I'm not claiming they're a 'good guy' but they're a hell of a lot better than a regime that cuts down 1500 people in a month over protests over fuel prices.

If the US didn't exist, this regime would still be intolerable, and it would be someone else that would have to put it up to them.

The US inherited the Middle East's security issues from the British and French, and lord knows they've made a hames of it from time to time - it does however need to be acknowledged that there are some extremely bad actors in the region, much worse than what comes out of Langley and the Pentagon, and the Iranian regime and the Revolutionary Guard thugs are one of them.

partyguinness

Yurt! wrote: »

Iran has been acting the maggot in the region and beyond for decades. From funding and orchestrating the activities of Shia militias in countries it wishes to destabilise, to assassinations on the streets of Europe and bombing Jewish community centres in Argentina.

The US have always been clumsy and sometimes act foolishly and hubristically in the Middle East, but the Iran regime is a pile of dog crap.

Are people forgetting that up to 1'500 protestors (Reuters) were gunned down in cities just last month by the Revolutionary Guard?

Indeed it has been 'acting the maggot'. Absolutely. But no different to how the US has acted and continues to act all around the world. The US trains and supplies weapons and has Special Forces littered around every continent- it does not make to news. The US is fighting several proxy wars including Iraq and Syria.

If the Iranian regime is pile of dog crap then so what- let them at it. There are plenty of crap regimes around the world.

Anyway, isn't it curious that it is a "regime" in Iran or Iraq or whatever country is not flavour of the month but it is not a regime in say, France or Brazil or the US. Amazing how subtle propaganda works.

This whole 'proxy war' phrase been thrown around liberally in the last week but lets not forget the US have been the masters (in the very very loosest sense of the word) of proxy wars for decades.

charlie14

partyguinness wrote: »

Perhaps the US do not have that particular hardware in the vicinity or perhaps as most people suspect it was face saving- if Iran wants to chuck a few missiles at us with no causalities then that's fine. Iran gets to vent some anger and the US does not get to ship home dead soldiers in an election year.

All a bit of a phoney conclusion.

Perhaps, but I would be very surprised if they did not have that equipment guarding bases in what is effectively a war zone.


You may be correct on the face saving aspect but, especially with prior warning, if they had the capability they could have intercepted those missiles and still have the same outcome.
If the tech is as good as some here have been assuring us then there should not have been any risk to US soldiers either.


Just struck me as a bit of an anomaly with all this talk of missiles missing their target there was nothing about any being intercepted.

notobtuse

One thing you’ve got to admit is if this was gist of Iran’s response then the killing of Soleimani was a major victory for Trump.

ArchXStanton

partyguinness wrote: »

Indeed it has been 'acting the maggot'. Absolutely. But no different to how the US has acted and continues to act all around the world. The US trains and supplies weapons and has Special Forces littered around every continent- it does not make to news. The US is fighting several proxy wars including Iraq and Syria.

If Iranian regime is pile of dog crap then so what- let them at it. The are plenty of crap regimes around the world.

Anyway, isn't it curious that it is a "regime" in Iran or Iraq or whatever country is not flavour of the month but it is not a regime in say, France or Brazil or the US. Amazing how subtle propaganda works.

This whole 'proxy war' phrase been thrown around liberally in the last week but lets not forget the US have been the masters (in the very very loosest sense of the word) of proxy wars for decades.

People have been protesting on the streets over the Macron regime for months now, a lot losing eyes and limbs in what I'd call deliberately targeting them, no regime change for him though over human rights abuses, he's a "strategic partner" or whatever bull**** they call it

alastair

pearcider wrote: »

Iran’s military would be wiped out in a few days of it came to war. Don’t pretend otherwise. The mullahs know full well their grip on power wouldn’t last a month under US bombardment.

When are the Taliban getting the news about the invincibility of the US military? Or the Vietnamese fir that matter? The US wouldn’t get anywhere hear a month of bombardment, they don’t have any allies in this except for the Saudis, and the International blowback from that degree of pig-headedness would be a serious problem for them.

Yurt2

partyguinness wrote: »

If Iranian regime is pile of dog crap then so what- let them at it. The are plenty of crap regimes around the world.

Anyway, isn't it curious that it is a "regime" in Iran or Iraq or whatever country is not flavour of the month but it is not a regime in say, France or Brazil or the US. Amazing how subtle propaganda works.

Let them at it? If they kept their nonense within their borders there may not be such an issue. Tell the families of the 85 dead in Argentina your warm thoughts, or the families of Iranian dissidents shot dead in suburbs of European cities, or in the provinces of Lebanon, Iraq and Syria that have been destabilised by Iran militias.

You know the distinction between France and Iran. I don't need to explain it to you or anyone reading this.

Yurt2

ArchXStanton wrote: »

People have been protesting on the streets over the Macron regime for months now, a lot losing eyes and limbs in what I'd call deliberately targeting them, no regime change for him though over human rights abuses, he's a "strategic partner" or whatever bull**** they call it

Send me postcard when Macron orders them to be shot and we'll talk.

Cheerful Spring2

The missiles clearly were precise, just unsure what facilities and buildings they blew up

ArchXStanton

Yurt! wrote: »

Let them at it? If they kept their nonense within their borders there may not be such an issue. Tell the families of the 85 dead in Argentina your warm thoughts, or the families of Iranian dissidents shot dead in suburbs of European cities, or in the provinces of Lebanon, Iraq and Syria that have been destabilised by Iran militias.

You know the distinction between France and Iran. I don't need to explain it to you or anyone reading this.

Syria was destabilised by ISIS and US funded militias, Iran and Russia were the clean up crew

notobtuse

In a foreign policy speech yesterday Joe Biden is now worried our troops will kicked out of Iran.

"Iran's parliament, Iran's parliament voted to eject all Americans and coalition forces from the country…"

But Orange Man Bad.

mulbot

charlie14 wrote: »

Perhaps, but I would be very surprised if they did not have that equipment guarding bases in what is effectively a war zone.


You may be correct on the face saving aspect but, especially with prior warning, if they had the capability they could have intercepted those missiles and still have the same outcome.
If the tech is as good as some here have been assuring us then there should not have been any risk to US soldiers either.


Just struck me as a bit of an anomaly with all this talk of missiles missing their target there was nothing about any being intercepted.

Who knows but the US looks fairly foolish now with the big talk of hitting Iran hard etc with shiny new weapons if they attempted to attack US bases. Maybe it'll put some manners on the US.

ArchXStanton

Yurt! wrote: »

Send me postcard when Macron orders them to be shot and we'll talk.

Really, you consider that acceptable treatment of people protesting over worsening living conditions? In a supposed first world country, They were quick to hold Venezuela to account

pearcider

ArchXStanton wrote: »

So you keep claiming, if it was that easy I'm sure the US would have taken them out by now, it would be like kicking a hornets nest with proxy forces all across the middle east, attacks in the US itself and hezbolloh with missiles pointed at Israel

The US wants peace and stability for the region as that way the economy grows and everybody does well. Trump is a business man. He has carefully avoided war and sought to bring Russia and North Korea back into the fold unlike the true war monger Hilary Clinton. He called off a massive air strike on Iran a few weeks ago when the planes were in the air. This despite numerous provocative actions by Iran in 2019.

In May they attacked several oil tankers.
In June they shot down a US drone.
In July they seized a civilian oil tanker.
In September they attacked a Saudi oil refinery.
In December they attacked the US embassy in Iraq.

They’re a bad neighbour and have been a rogue state since they took over the US embassy 40 years ago. What you see is exactly what you get from an Islamic theocracy. They don’t even hide their extremist views and their hatred for the west and our way of life. They’re anti women, anti lgbt and against a free press and political opposition. They’re a problem for the free world which sooner or later will have to be solved. Most probably by Uncle Sam since nobody else has the capability.