US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

utyh2ikcq9z76b

keepalive213 wrote: »

How can a maniac like Trump be in a position to make decisions like that, its crazy.

When you win an election you are in that position

SortingYouOut

My cousin is based in Iraq at the minute, working as a contractor for some oil company.

I sent him a whatsapp to make sure he'll be alright and he's just got back to say that all western staff are flying out tonight as it may be too unsafe.

They're in constant radio contact with the military (didn't say which one) and they advised them to avoid a number of areas due to protests and unrest following this.

Snickers Man

GolfNut33 wrote: »

America will stand alone in this one as Trump has made enemies out if allies with all the tariff stuff over the past few years and I cant see the British getting involved with the whole Brexit thing. The last thing they need is a war.

Are you kidding? For some people, Brexit was ALL ABOUT a global strategic realignment with Britain and America cutting Europe loose from their commitments and asserting Pax Anglophonica on the rest of the world. (Or Bellum Aglophonica if necessary).

This is so obvious. What to you think they are going to offer all those militant sons and grandsons of miners who resolutely fought against the destruction of their livelihoods by Thatcher in the 1980s and then just a month ago kicked out the likes of Dennis Skinner and then voted in a Tory???????

Join the army and see the world guys. Plenty of ragheads to kill. Make Great Britain Great Again. MGBGA, ya bugga!

Couldn't be better timing. For these people, patriotism beats the welfare state any day. Welcome the new generation of Soldier Fs!!!

rockatansky

SortingYouOut wrote: »

My cousin is based in Iraq at the minute, working as a contractor for some oil company.

I sent him a whatsapp to make sure he'll be alright and he's just got back to say that all western staff are flying out tonight as it may be too unsafe.

They're in constant radio contact with the military (didn't say which one) and they advised them to avoid a number of areas due to protests and unrest following this.

I think Trump has caught many of his own Government Departments off guard with this one. The instruction for all Americans to leave immediately by any means possible tells you that there was no prep for this. It's a scary scenario. Almost the Australian Fire and Rescue text to the people in the path of the fire last week, if you haven't left already don't as it's too late. You really don't want to be a US citizen left behind after this one or Hollywood will be making a film about you in the near future.

NIMAN

The new generation are too lazy and pampered to join the army.

Sierra Oscar

NIMAN wrote: »

14th in the world?

Iraq was meant to be a great army too, look how much resistance they put up.

Useless comparison.

The makeup and capabilities of the Iraqi Armed Forces pre-2003 aren’t comparable to the current Iranian Armed Forces.

The Iraqi Armed Forces had been severely diminished in the decade leading up to 2003. It was destroyed following the Gulf War and never recovered due to sanctions and the fact that it could no longer rearm and regroup as it had historically relied on the US to equip it as was the case during the Iran-Iraq War in the 80’s.

Iran on the other hand has completely rearmed and strengthened its armed forces since the end of the Iran-Iraq War in 88. They also have their own domestic military industry which supplies their armed forces unlike Iraq.

Their military strength is obviously no where near that of the US, but they do have the capability to impose hefty casualties if the US attempted a large scale military intervention. There’s a reason the US haven’t engaged directly in a military confrontation with Iran to date.

J Mysterio

NIMAN wrote: »

Totally agree with that, but you think the US care?

They never have.

They will bomb Iran to pieces and destroy their military, and not give a toss about anything else.

And their population will celebrate a victory, just like they did with Iraq.

Not quite as simple as all that.

For one, Iran has it's own missile defence system (Bavar-373) which are fully developed and manufactured internally and by all accounts are quite modern and effective.

Also, the population at large do not have a particularly positive view of the US either, particularly as the US have sought to put targeted pressure on Iran for decades and have fucķed with the region for so long. The US have invaded Afghanistan on their Eastern border and Iraq on their western border. Iran has put a lof effort into cleaning up the mess left behind (e.g. Isis etc.). Up to a few years ago, there was actually coordination in some of this.

The US have also unilaterally pulled out of international agreements reached in good faith and placed sanctions on the country which cause internal suffering, against the advice and wishes of US allies.

Many Iranians are proud of their country and way of life and would most certainly not welcome an attack on their country.

o1s1n

NIMAN wrote: »

The new generation are too lazy and pampered to join the army.

You first, so.

igCorcaigh

I don't understand this idea of projecting power in the region, whether it be Iran or USA or whoever.

Wouldn't it make more sense for a country to focus its resources on improving its own economy and empowering its citizens, with education etc?

NIMAN

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Useless comparison.

The makeup and capabilities of the Iraqi Armed Forces pre-2003 aren’t comparable to the current Iranian Armed Forces.

The Iraqi Armed Forces had been severely diminished in the decade leading up to 2003. It was destroyed following the Gulf War and never recovered due to sanctions and the fact that it could no longer rearm and regroup as it had historically relied on the US to equip it as was the case during the Iran-Iraq War in the 80’s.

Iran on the other hand has completely rearmed and strengthened its armed forces since the end of the Iran-Iraq War in 88. They also have their own domestic military industry which supplies their armed forces unlike Iraq.

Their military strength is obviously no where near that of the US, but they do have the capability to impose hefty casualties if the US attempted a large scale military intervention. There’s a reason the US haven’t engaged directly in a military confrontation with Iran to date.

You're kinda making my point for me.
Yeah, the Yanks destroyed it.
Just like they would destroy the Iranian army, from the air, and take out all their factories and infrastructure.

James Brown

SortingYouOut wrote: »

My cousin is based in Iraq at the minute, working as a contractor for some oil company.

I sent him a whatsapp to make sure he'll be alright and he's just got back to say that all western staff are flying out tonight as it may be too unsafe.

They're in constant radio contact with the military (didn't say which one) and they advised them to avoid a number of areas due to protests and unrest following this.

He's fair game now, he should leave.

J Mysterio

keepalive213 wrote: »

When they say the Trump administration ordered the bombing im wondering if The Donald gave the order or was it some military commander.
How can a maniac like Trump be in a position to make decisions like that, its crazy.

Commander in chief

igCorcaigh

NIMAN wrote: »

The new generation are too lazy and pampered to join the army.

Good.

It's not 1914.

James Brown

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I don't understand this idea of projecting power in the region, whether it be Iran or USA or whoever.

Wouldn't it make more sense for a country to focus its resources on improving its own economy and empowering its citizens, with education etc?

It's about oil and security. If you have oil, they'll want to invade. If you are near oil or unhappy they are abusing your neighbours, they'll invade for security. Hard to concentrate on society surrounded by that and in the Palestinians case, trying to survive.

James Brown

NIMAN wrote: »

The new generation are too lazy and pampered to join the army.

Like the generations and current people that send them to their deaths so.
Trump, I mean, c'mon.

Sierra Oscar

NIMAN wrote: »

You're kinda making my point for me.
Yeah, the Yanks destroyed it.
Just like they would destroy the Iranian army, from the air, and take out all their factories and infrastructure.

I’m not really though. The ‘yanks’ were able to dismantle the Iraqi Armed Forces in 1990 as they had already been diminished, in terms of manpower and equipment, as a result of the Iran-Iraq War which ended just two years beforehand.

500,000 soldiers died during that war.

Iran hasn’t been fighting any such war in the last two years.

igCorcaigh

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's about oil and security. If you have oil, they'll want to invade. If you are near oil or unhappy they are abusing your neighbours, they'll invade for security. Hard to concentrate on society surrounded by that and in the Palestinians case, trying to survive.

I don't know how to respond to this, but I understand your comment.

Hard power.

But the region could come together and cooperate if it was only resources?

I don't know. I'm an idealist maybe, but I see such waste of money and lives in a resource rich region.

ArchXStanton

NIMAN wrote: »

The new generation are too lazy and pampered to join the army.

Maybe they're smart enough not to give their lives for big business interests and dubious reasons for war...

J Mysterio

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I don't understand this idea of projecting power in the region, whether it be Iran or USA or whoever.

Wouldn't it make more sense for a country to focus its resources on improving its own economy and empowering its citizens, with education etc?

For Iran it is a matter of life and death. The Israelis hate them, the Saudis hate them and the yanks have wanted regime change for some time. The US has military bases built up in a ring around the country. They see it as vital to influence their neighbours and contacts in Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc. and that this may benefit them in a war scenario.

I understand their military strategy is primarily defence orientated. What benefits them in this regard is the aforementioned topography of the country and the hormuz strait.

Edit
Yer man was targeted as his force was precisely about influencing and arming foreign groups

babybuilder

rossie1977 wrote: »

Trump wants regime change in Iran, Republicans in general have wanted one for four decades. You can't accomplish that without boots on ground.

Bomb the crap out of a sovereign country. They'll hope to destabilise Iran. Look for overthrow of government and stir ethnic groups to create a civil war and the usual basket case mess. Remember the axis of evil speech by Bush. These hawks in the pentagon are pure evil.

James Brown

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I don't know how to respond to this, but I understand your comment.

Hard power.

But the region could come together and cooperate if it was only resources?

I don't know. I'm an idealist maybe, but I see such waste of money and lives in a resource rich region.

You're talking about what the west would call 'an axis of evil' or similar.
It's western greed IMO. Look at Iran's history, riddled with US intervention, Iraq and Afghanistan too. Then you've Israel stealing land and butchering Palestinians, supported by the US.

mulbot

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Maybe they're smart enough not to give their lives for big business interests and dubious reasons for war...

Nah, it's usually the lower class uneducated inbreds fuelled by oxycontin, burgers and an inability to differentiate between real life and call of duty that are first in line to "serve"

igCorcaigh

J Mysterio wrote: »

For Iran it is a matter of life and death. The Israelis hate them, the Saudis hate them and the yanks have wanted regime change for some time. The US has military bases built up in a ring around the country. They see it as vital to influence their neighbours and contacts in Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc. and that this may benefit them in a war scenario.

I understand their military strategy is primarily defence orientated. What benefits them in this regard is the aforementioned topography of the country and the hormuz strait.

Edit
Yer man was targeted as his force was precisely about influencing and arming foreign groups

Sure, but why can't a country like Iran focus their energy internally and build up their own well-being? Wouldn't that make them more resilient and peaceful?

It's not just Iran I'm talking about.
I might as well ask the same question about Britain in 19C.

Maybe it's rhetorical.

igCorcaigh

I think there is a big pressure from the Iranian population to question why their leaders are focusing on Iraq, when their people need help at home.

Same with USA too.

James Brown

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Sure, but why can't a country like Iran focus their energy internally and build up their own well-being? Wouldn't that make them more resilient and peaceful?

It's not just Iran I'm talking about.
I might as well ask the same question about Britain in 19C.

Maybe it's rhetorical.

That's assuming the US, Russia and Israel are not the aggressors. Spoiler alert: They are.

Amirani

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Sure, but why can't a country like Iran focus their energy internally and build up their own well-being? Wouldn't that make them more resilient and peaceful?

Because the US under Trump has unilaterally applied sanctions to Iran and essentially banned any Western companies from trading with or operating within Iran. It's impossible in a modern globalised World to develop under such conditions.

After the deal with Obama, Iran was very much doing what you suggest.

igCorcaigh

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I think there is a big pressure from the Iranian population to question why their leaders are focusing on Iraq, when their people need help at home.

Same with USA too.

And this all feeds in to the story of people around the world questioning their leaders priorities. It's happening everywhere, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, even the west.

This is the background of what is happening on the ground, and it can't be ignored.

igCorcaigh

Amirani wrote: »

Because the US under Trump has unilaterally applied sanctions to Iran and essentially banned any Western companies from trading with or operating within Iran. It's impossible in a modern globalised World to develop under such conditions.

After the deal with Obama, Iran was very much doing what you suggest.

For sure.

They have made the Iranian people now defend their leaders opposite of previous policy.

Edit.

James Brown

igCorcaigh wrote: »

And this all feeds in to the story of people around the world questioning their leaders priorities. It's happening everywhere, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, even the west.

This is the background of what is happening on the ground, and it can't be ignored.

'even the west'.
You'll note Lebanon, Iraq, Iran etc. often have issues in their back yard because of the west.

igCorcaigh

Matt Barrett wrote: »

'even the west'.
You'll note Lebanon, Iraq, Iran etc. often have issues in their back yard because of the west.

Totally agree.