US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

Timberrrrrrrr

pearcider wrote: »

Says the lad defending the rogue state that just blew up a civilian airliner.

You know the Americans did this not too long ago themselves right?

Cheerful Spring2

GM228 wrote: »

Air on the side of caution, wait (unlike some of us) for more conclusive/verified evidence before making claims, to be fair as I pointed out from the outset there was hints of a shoot down, or rather that it wasn't a simple engine fire/failure.

US military likely detected a fire of a rogue missile from this position on the day? The US on the day denied Iran launched a rogue missile.  
This is a problem, you don't know who the trust, since US and Iran despise each other. When events like this happen elsewhere, we don't have to distrust what each side is revealing!

pearcider

cameramonkey wrote: »

Many states blow up aircraft by accident , its more common than we would like.

I’m sure that will comfort the dead.

pearcider

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You know the Americans did this not too long ago themselves right?

So that gives the Iranians carte blanch. The logic of the anti American socialist in all its glory.

Timberrrrrrrr

pearcider wrote: »

So that gives the Iranians carte blanch. The logic of the anti American socialist in all its glory.

No

I'm just pointing out your blatant hypocrisy;)

TheValeyard

It would seem like a missile strike does make most logical sense. Maybe some nervous missile commander expecting a US strike made a serious error of judgement and a lot of innocent people lost their lives.

charlie14

osarusan wrote: »

Obviously I haven't a clue.

Perhaps that was premilinary intel data, and now they have a more definite picture.

Perhaps they are talking crap, though I can't see why they'd make such claims unless they are confident they can back it up, as it would be a massive own goal otherwise.

We had CNN with a report from military and intelligence sources saying no missile. Now we have CBS saying there were two and Trump saying he thought something.
If he actually knows something then why does he not say, or at the very least as his own people what evidence they have before waffling about his thoughts ?

Btw for those that may be interested, or even for those that may wish it was otherwise, the Iranian Civil Aviation Authority are carrying out the investigation to the letter on internationally agreed regulation requirements

alastair

pearcider wrote: »

Says the lad defending the rogue state that just blew up a civilian airliner.

I’m doing nothing more than defending the truth, in the face of certain jingoistic armchair generals.

pearcider

pearcider wrote: »

So that gives the Iranians carte blanch. The logic of the anti American socialist in all its glory.

Bizarre person.

alastair

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You know the Americans did this not too long ago themselves right?

Clearly if they did shoot at the plane by accident they should follow the moral lead of the US and award those who shot it down medals.

cameramonkey

pearcider wrote: »

I’m sure that will comfort the dead.

I'm not sure you care too much about the dead except to score points.

pearcider

alastair wrote: »

I’m doing nothing more than defending the truth, in the face of certain jingoistic armchair generals.

No you’re defending the Iranians who have once again showed their complete disregard for civilian life. But hey orange man bad.

alastair

pearcider wrote: »

No you’re defending the Iranians who have once again showed their complete disregard for civilian life. But hey orange man bad.

I’m doing no such thing, except where inaccurate claims are made in relation to the Iranians. And sure - Trump is an awful person, and an equally poor president. No argument there.

Cheerful Spring2

pearcider wrote: »

So that gives the Iranians carte blanch. The logic of the anti American socialist in all its glory.

If the Iranians blew an airline out of the sky (by mistake it just another reason for US to just pile on extra pressure against Iran.

US intelligence-  same individuals from Iraq WMD days who produced photographs of factories in Iraq and declared they were biological and chemical factories 100 percent. When US marines went to investigate during the war, they discovered a baby milk factory!

I not going to claim this can't be true, but I Am highly suspicious when its US intelligence making the claim after they already said they detected no launch yesterday. 

Either way it was a catastrophe and should not be used for point scoring. If Iran shot it down it was not calculated and if you want to think otherwise believe it., knock yourself out. 

Gatling

1962 Aeroflot Flight 902 shot down by Russia

1978 Korean Air Lines Flight 902 shot down by Russia

september 1983
Korean Air Lines Flight 007 shot down by Russia


Iran Air Flight 655 1988 shot down by America

September 1993
three airliners belonging to Transair Georgia were shot down by missiles and gunfire in Sukhumi, Abkhazia, Georgia. The first, a Tupolev Tu-134, was shot down on 21 September 1993 by a missile during landing approach. The second plane, a Tupolev Tu-154, was shot down a day later also during approach all three shot down by Russia

2001 Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 shot down by Russia

2014 Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Aka MH-17 shot down by Russia.

2020 Ukrainian flight 752 shot down by Iran.




And to think posters on here act and think America are the only ones to shoot down a civilian airliner before iran

Melanchthon

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

If the Iranians blew an airline out of the sky (by mistake it just another reason for US to just pile on extra pressure against Iran.

US intelligence-  same individuals from Iraq WMD days who produced photographs of factories in Iraq and declared they were biological and chemical factories 100 percent. When US marines went to investigate during the war, they discovered a baby milk factory!

I not going to claim this can't be true, but I Am highly suspicious when its US intelligence making the claim after they already said they detected no launch yesterday. 

Either way it was a catastrophe and should not be used for point scoring. If Iran shot it down it was not calculated and if you want to think otherwise believe it., knock yourself out. 

There was a lot of talk about this immediately after the crash though as it's a strange crash for a fairly new 3 year old plane with a good safety record (its not a max)

charlie14

pearcider wrote: »

No you’re defending the Iranians who have once again showed their complete disregard for civilian life. But hey orange man bad.

I`m confused by this constant reference to a bad orange man.


Is that they the latest target for Trump and this is the quote/war cry, or is it your own ?


I know not everyone here has a love for the Orange Order, but a bit extreme to be shouting this and creating religious/ethical tensions whichever one of you thought it up.

Fonny122

charlie14 wrote: »

I`m confused by this constant reference to a bad orange man.

It's the latest in a line of cult like group think being pushed by and on Trump supporters. By parroting this, or "fake news" (even in response literal direct quotes and video of Trump), or the "npc" meme, or "deep state" in response to all the things Trump has ruined within his own administration, it gives them an easy line to parrot without having to think about it in any real way whatsoever, or engage in any discussion over it. It's no different to "la la la I can't hear you la la la la la la!"

That really is all there is to it, and it is telling that it is so much more prevalent in the less articulate or educated (on current matters) elements of his base. In non cult terms, it translates to "I cannot defend this position so I will actively choose to ignore it".

LillySV

osarusan wrote: »

LillySV has no problem describing Iran like this:



This is petty point-scoring dressed up as some kind of moral argument, nothing more.

Iran is far from democratic... country has access to some of the worlds greatest resources but majority of people haven’t a pot to piss in as their leaders going around spending all their money on weapons and on themselves .**** all spent for the benefit of the country citizens ...
As regards human rights... their leaders and official would hang ya out there if ya even hinted that you were gay... as regards women’s rights ... their dogs probably have more ...

All cause of these great Iran leaders you and your leftie buddies want to stand up for ...

Someone tried to change something I said earlier to hint I said the plane was shot down when I hadn’t said anything about the plane at all... fairly sad ****e ... ye have to make stuff up ....

Anyways hope I don’t see u and your pals on boards anytime soon shouting about women or lgbt rights cause when you think Iran’s leaders are perfect then u clearly reckon they have no rights

And as regards the plane issue... I will now comment ... majority of experts now coming out and saying it was a Russian missile fired by Iran ... although no one doubts it was an accident

Beasty

Seriously guys and gals - you continue discussing other posters and I'll continue dishing out cards and bans

It's quite plainly there in the OP warning (and has been there for nearly a week)

Any questions, PM me

charlie14

Fonny122 wrote: »

It's the latest in a line of cult like group think being pushed by and on Trump supporters. By parroting this, or "fake news" (even in response literal direct quotes and video of Trump), or the "npc" meme, or "deep state" in response to all the things Trump has ruined within his own administration, it gives them an easy line to parrot without having to think about it in any real way whatsoever, or engage in any discussion over it. It's no different to "la la la I can't hear you la la la la la la!"

That really is all there is to it, and it is telling that it is so much more prevalent in the less articulate or educated (on current matters) elements of his base. In non cult terms, it translates to "I cannot defend this position so I will actively choose to ignore it".

To be honest, I did realise that, but thanks all the same for putting it so distinctly.


I reality I was bored with some of the comical rubbish being posted and thought I might as well post in kind.

Manic Moran

Nickolas Nutty Dunce wrote: »

https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-44406101/natural-killers-turning-the-tide-of-battle

This is a journal paper that was written by a US officer. It advocates the utility of psychopaths as combat soldiers. They are fearless and happy to kill enemies, while non-psychopaths experience fear and a reticence to kill.

One of the points he makes is that the average IQ of a regular combat soldier is significantly lower than average, but the average IQ of psychopath combat soldiers is the same as the national average.

I wouldn't call them inbred hillbillies. I would say that the army is a viable career path for people whose options might be limited for one reason or another

Article behind a paywall, so I can't comment to the specifics, especially with regards to the IQ issue. I know the Army's never measured my IQ.

He seems to be continuing the work of Grossman, which is fair enough, though he does make the same mistake as Gossman of relying on the now-discredited SLA Marshall claim of the amount of soldiers who actually shoot at the enemy. As I'm interpreting the combination of your assessment and the article preview, he's advocating that choosing psychopaths may reduce the requirements for conditioning in order for soldiers to actually shoot which is fair enough, though there is no indication that the Army actually screens for such at this time.

Cheerful Spring2

Melanchthon wrote: »

There was a lot of talk about this immediately after the crash though as it's a strange crash for a fairly new 3 year old plane with a good safety record (its not a max)

Sure i agree. Here though no one of the officials has had their names published by Newsweek. It again anonymous sources. If US believes a missile brought it down, why do they not reveal who saying this? It just muddy the waters of learning the truth!

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

. It again anonymous sources. If US believes a missile brought it down, why do they not reveal who saying this? It just muddy the waters of learning the truth!

We know the truth since yesterday Iranian military shot it down ,

Iran has been lying trying to spin this every which way they ****ed up royally along with anyone who supported the Iranian fairy tales

charlie14

LillySV wrote: »

Iran is far from democratic... country has access to some of the worlds greatest resources but majority of people haven’t a pot to piss in as their leaders going around spending all their money on weapons and on themselves .**** all spent for the benefit of the country citizens ...
As regards human rights... their leaders and official would hang ya out there if ya even hinted that you were gay... as regards women’s rights ... their dogs probably have more ...

All cause of these great Iran leaders you and your leftie buddies want to stand up for ...

Someone tried to change something I said earlier to hint I said the plane was shot down when I hadn’t said anything about the plane at all... fairly sad ****e ... ye have to make stuff up ....

Anyways hope I don’t see u and your pals on boards anytime soon shouting about women or lgbt rights cause when you think Iran’s leaders are perfect then u clearly reckon they have no rights

And as regards the plane issue... I will now comment ... majority of experts now coming out and saying it was a Russian missile fired by Iran ... although no one doubts it was an accident

The US do not seem to share your concerns when it comes to who they sell weapons too.


We have two conflicting claims from two US news networks supposedly from the same expert sources. US military and intelligence, plus a thought from Trump.
I have not heard any from experts from the crash site, where the Iranian Aviation Authority are carrying out their investigation according to agreed international best practice.
Until we hear from the experts on the ground then speculation is pointless chatter imho

charlie14

Gatling wrote: »

We know the truth since yesterday Iranian military shot it down ,

Iran has been lying trying to spin this every which way they ****ed up royally along with anyone who supported the Iranian fairy tales

It really is a terrible shame.
If only we all had the proper security clearance you could share that evidence with us.:rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

We know the truth since yesterday Iranian military shot it down ,

Iran has been lying trying to spin this every which way they ****ed up royally along with anyone who supported the Iranian fairy tales

I not going to point score about a tragedy. Use the other thread for that.

skepticalme

On the night of the missile strike, I posted a link to a tweet claiming Iran had shot down an American aircraft. It was deleted shortly afterwards so I deleted the post. Truth will out eventually.

Beasty

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I not going to point score about a tragedy. Use the other thread for that.

In fact, please use the other (new) thread for all further discussion of the crashed airliner. There is no point in running conversations on the same topic in parallel

However the warnings in this thread apply equally over there

Thanks

s7ryf3925pivug

Manic Moran wrote: »

Article behind a paywall, so I can't comment to the specifics, especially with regards to the IQ issue. I know the Army's never measured my IQ.

He seems to be continuing the work of Grossman, which is fair enough, though he does make the same mistake as Gossman of relying on the now-discredited SLA Marshall claim of the amount of soldiers who actually shoot at the enemy. As I'm interpreting the combination of your assessment and the article preview, he's advocating that choosing psychopaths may reduce the requirements for conditioning in order for soldiers to actually shoot which is fair enough, though there is no indication that the Army actually screens for such at this time.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122853261&page=2

If you're interested, the article was copied and pasted into the above thread. It's without proper formatting. I read it a long time ago when it was either freely available or I had access to paid journal sites. Just found that link by googling. I'd find it a bit tedious to pick through it myself in that format.