US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

Cheerful Spring2

Manic Moran wrote: »

I think people have forgotten the US's power projection capability because it's not in the news. There's a reason the US is considered the world's only Hyperpower. We use neighboring countries for airfields and logistics support because we can and it's cheaper and easier, not because we have to. The US Air Force has one tanker aircraft for every three fighters. It can create harbours in a couple of days with purpose-built ships for handling its supply chain to offload transport ships in the interim (Seabasing). Things have advanced a little since the Mulberries of WW2. You don't see them because they're not glamorous, we're not using them, but we have them.

That's accurate if all functions without a hitch, yet Iran knows where the US bases are and they're all in a range of their missiles. I not asserting this the action Iran will take, but full-scale war the possibly be the first targets on the list to stop America from having air dominance over Iran. America is heavily reliant on those bases in middle east remain functional and operational for war. 

Sean.3516

threeball wrote: »

Not worth responding to because you can't argue the point.

And to say the Americans don't have imperialist ambitions is absolute b.s. of the highest order. They invade where ever they feel like, take control of the country, plunder their resources (mainly oil) and even retain control of these resources after they leave. Nothing like an imperialist country at all.

It wasn’t worth responding to because it was an unintelligible hyperbole fused word salad filled with infantile clichès about evil America.

You repeat these silly tropes bereft of all explanation or context in your next post.

Really, it’s just a rant by someone who watches too much news and reads too few books.

At least I try to be somewhat coherent in my posts and explain my reasoning. You guys have nothing but slogans and talking points.

Spanish Eyes

I think Trump needs somewhere for the minimum wagers to go now, besides Walmart.

War? Perfect for sign ups to the Military, and it fits in with patriotism and serving your country too.

I don't mean to be mean, but think about it in an election year. Jobs for everyone.

threeball

Sean.3516 wrote: »

As I’ve said, the Saudi’s are a-holes in a region filled with a-holes and the US is making a moral compromise by forming a coalition with them in order to stop Iran from getting a nuke they might actually use.

It’s a calculation you or I will never have to make from our keyboards.

As for the killing of Jamal Kashoggi, it was unconnected to terror. He was an outspoken critic of the Saudi govt and they had him killed.

If you were to draw any terror related narrative from this (which I don’t) it would be that Saudi govt was anti-terror considering the fact that Kashoggi was a radical with ties to the Islamic Brotherhood and the Bin Ladens.

No the Saudis are the ultimate a holes in the region. Twice I've posted how they were the main sponsor of Isis and twice you ignored it. The Americans aligned to them due to oil deals done in the 70s and remain aligned to them as Saudi money is critical to keeping the US afloat. If thèy pulled funds in the morning the US would likely default.

You also ignored the posts from me and others outlining the Saudi involvement in 9/11 in personnel, planning and finance. It's the Saudis and Israelis who destabilise the region. Had the Iranians bent over and handed the Americans resources in the 70s they would be America's best buddy instead but they didn't and they're not. The US then created a bogeyman which brings me to the other question you ignored. If Iran is such a threat who or what have they targeted in the last 20yrs that's not American.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

yet Iran knows where the US bases are and they're all in a range of their missiles. I not asserting this the action Iran will take,

The world knows where American bases are but nobody touches them why ,

Is it something like we might get lucky and lob a missile close to an American facility ,only to be hammered by land ,air and sea 24/7 365 days including launching bombing runs from America to anywhere on the planet ,
Iran would lose an substantial amount of their military infrastructure if they got a lucky shot on target ,
Iran hits America it's an act of war , that comes with consequences
Proxies can only get you so far

Gringo180

Hopefully this is the end of the puppet regimes in the UAE and Saudi Arabia who are complicit in attacks against Iran and the economic terrorism been waged against Tehran by Washington.

You cant keep poking the Iranians and expect them to sit back an do nothing.

Cheerful Spring2

greenpilot wrote: »

Ok, let me explain this in another way for you, Syria's " oilfields" are negligible, which was my point. I know this as I spent six months working in the Eastern part of the country next to them. My point is, they are not worth guarding. Like some of the posters here, I have lived in the ME, have knowledge of the countries, their people and the Geo-political situations. This is not a competition. Maybe you've been to the ME, I dont know, but what a person Googles and what a person experiences at first hand are two very different things....ah. why bother.

Trump admitted they send US military to secure the oil fields. Even boasted about taking oil if they invade countries. Trump acknowledging what the power elite truly believes and the nice laugh and work suits fools a lot of people into thinking this all about fighting the bad guys. When you have a 600 billion dollar defence budget, you invariably need an enemy to fight and keep the gravy train ticking over. 

threeball

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It wasn’t worth responding to because it was an unintelligible hyperbole fused word salad filled with infantile clichès about evil America.

You repeat these silly tropes bereft of all explanation or context in your next post.

Really, it’s just a rant by someone who watches too much news and reads too few books.

At least I try to be somewhat coherent in my posts and explain my reasoning. You guys have nothing but slogans and talking points.

Laughable from a guy who ignores every post he can't argue and labels them hyperbole when he doesn't have an answer.

The premise was simple, many others read it and understood. What makes America so special that they think they have the right to invade countries and kill who they like then pass it off with your argument that if they didn't do it someone else would. Would we accept that excuse from Nazi war criminals, or the Chinese or north Koreans. Or do you just accept it from the Americans as they are an acceptable face to you, mainly ran by white, English speaking people who eat the same kinda foods and live in a similar manner.

pablo128

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So is this drone attack on Sulamenlie or whatever he's called dangerous for us?

Just wondered would the repercussions affect Brexit lol. You know, collateral damage.

Anything oil based goes up in price for a start. Heating oil, petrol, diesel etc.

threeball

Gatling wrote: »

The world knows where American bases are but nobody touches them why ,

Is it something like we might get lucky and lob a missile close to an American facility ,only to be hammered by land ,air and sea 24/7 365 days including launching bombing runs from America to anywhere on the planet ,
Iran would lose an substantial amount of their military infrastructure if they got a lucky shot on target ,
Iran hits America it's an act of war , that comes with consequences
Proxies can only get you so far

So the American air strike wasn't an act of war but a retaliation would be?
When do the international community take america to task for the constant war mongering. Made up stories of WMDs, probably more stories made up to justify this attack.

Fonny122

Gatling wrote: »

Run along there ted

Responsibility isn't a strong point with you obviously. Carry on proverbially flapping away to the thoughts of more terror attacks and lots of dead people on both sides. It seems like something you're fond of.

robertpatterson

That oil isn't going to free itself!!!

Sean.3516

threeball wrote: »

No the Saudis are the ultimate a holes in the region. Twice I've posted how they were the main sponsor of Isis and twice you ignored it. The Americans aligned to them due to oil deals done in the 70s and remain aligned to them as Saudi money is critical to keeping the US afloat. If thèy pulled funds in the morning the US would likely default.

You also ignored the posts from me and others outlining the Saudi involvement in 9/11 in personnel, planning and finance. It's the Saudis and Israelis who destabilise the region. Had the Iranians bent over and handed the Americans resources in the 70s they would be America's best buddy instead but they didn't and they're not. The US then created a bogeyman which brings me to the other question you ignored. If Iran is such a threat who or what have they targeted in the last 20yrs that's not American.

I didn’t ignore you. I said that there is a distinction to be made between terror supporting elements within the country of Saudi Arabia and the Saudi govt. itself with some overlap.

The issue of where exactly the money and terror support is coming is extremely ambiguous. Especially in a monarchic regime with different competing interest groups. I don’t have all the answers and neither do you.

The reason Iran turned on the USA in 1979 was only tangentially about resources. The Shah’s govt. that preceded the ayatollahs was secular and progressive and Iran was a much better country for it. The ayatollahs were theocratic and fascistic and despised the West for ideological reasons. Not economic reasons.

America has been a net exporter of oil for quite some time now. They aren’t as economically dependent on the Middle East as they used to be.

Who has Iran targeted? Israel, Saudi and countless other nations far from the Middle East through shipping in the Gulf of Oman like Panama, Japan and Norway. They go a bit easier on us Europeans because we trade with them.

Europe is leaving Iran alone and visa versa because we want their money. And you’re saying America is attacking them for the same reason?

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

The world knows where American bases are but nobody touches them why ,

Is it something like we might get lucky and lob a missile close to an American facility ,only to be hammered by land ,air and sea 24/7 365 days including launching bombing runs from America to anywhere on the planet ,
Iran would lose an substantial amount of their military infrastructure if they got a lucky shot on target ,
Iran hits America it's an act of war , that comes with consequences
Proxies can only get you so far

Why would other countries touch them if there not at war?
America supposed primary rival for last 30 years is Al Qeada, Iraq and Taliban., US military has never truly shown they are dominant and  can destroy all enemies?
Iran is a middle ground opposition, not as great as the Chinese and Russians, but they can hit back outside their border.

You're a clueless if you think Iran missile defence is just fire and hope for the best. There cruise missiles have same capabilities as Israel and American versions.  Saudi radar ( American manufactured) defense systems failed to identify Iranian cruise missiles entering their airspace.  The cruise missiles flew over 1000 miles according to military experts estiminations and seemly hit the targets accurately.

Gringo180

robertpatterson wrote: »

That oil isn't going to free itself!!!

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

KWAG2019

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't really see how this airstrike will affect his impeachment - which isn't going to happen anyway.

Trump IS impeached. He was impeached by vote of the House of Representatives. He IS the 3rd President to be impeached. His impeachment will forever stay on his record as President.

To be clear: Trump is impeached.

Sean.3516

Gringo180 wrote: »

Hopefully this is the end of the puppet regimes in the UAE and Saudi Arabia who are complicit in attacks against Iran and the economic terrorism been waged against Tehran by Washington.

You cant keep poking the Iranians and expect them to sit back an do nothing.

It’s actually Trump who has been poked by Iran for the past six months since they started lashing out at shipping lanes. He’s been quite reluctant to do anything in response until now. Remember when he called off an air strike on Iran because he thought it would kill too many people?

“Economic terrorism”. He’s been treating them with kid gloves.

If Iran wants the sanctions lifted it can happen very rapidly. They have to cease being the primary sponsor and leader of Shia terrorism and they have to abandon their dreams of getting nukes, both of which they failed to do under the Iran Deal so Trump tore it up and applied sanctions.

Gatling

threeball wrote: »

So the American air strike wasn't an act of war but a retaliation would be?

Probably a bit of Both ,

Actually(US /Iran) both are as bad as each other only on different levels , nobody knows what Iran's game is they can't and won't win a war with America ,they will cause casualties but end up in a worse position ,a weakened Iranian military could end in regime falling from within I doubt anyone under 30 in Iran believes in the revolution ,or what the revolution was supposed to change ,

America is not the only country to interfere in another state it's been happening since time began , remember the annexation of Crimea or the actual invasion and occupation of eastern Ukraine , Georgia ,Serbia , russia can say and do what it wants based off direct threats to it's neighbours ,
Everyone seems to blame America for the current state of Afghanistan seems people ignore what actually happened once the Kremlin got involved in Afghanistan and bombed the country into the stone age long before American boots hit the ground,

What is Iran's goal in the middle East exactly kick America out and what they take over despite having next to nothing to offer other states allied with America and the rest of the world,they can't bring prosperity ,they cant bring security and they definitely don't have the money to rebuild the middle east ,
They want to fight Israel but yet are too chicken **** to have a real go at taking out or taken on , happy to have Palestinian families loose their kids to Israeli bullets and strikes ,
the same with Saudi they both want each other gone but yet neither will come out and fight each other directly .

So how does this end .

America moves out and Iran takes over till the Russians takes over or wait till the Chinese come and take everything .

Will iran bring peace to the middle East absolutely not a hope no

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

There cruise missiles have same capabilities as Israel and American versions.

Sorry no your wrong .

Sean.3516

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Trump IS impeached. He was impeached by vote of the House of Representatives. He IS the 3rd President to be impeached. His impeachment will forever stay on his record as President.

To be clear: Trump is impeached.

Yes but he’s not going to be removed. He’ll be acquitted in the Senate and you’ll find this has no effect on the 2020 election. Most voters are as set in their opinions of Trump as they have been since 2016. It’ll come down to moderates/independents in the swing states as always.

AllForIt

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Trump IS impeached. He was impeached by vote of the House of Representatives. He IS the 3rd President to be impeached. His impeachment will forever stay on his record as President.

To be clear: Trump is impeached.

Not really clear what impeachment means if your don't actually loose your position of power.

I mean you can't really say you've been sacked from your job if your still doing the job.

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry no your wrong .

This was an Iranian cruise missile strike- shock and awe:)

Sean.3516

threeball wrote: »

Laughable from a guy who ignores every post he can't argue and labels them hyperbole when he doesn't have an answer.

The premise was simple, many others read it and understood. What makes America so special that they think they have the right to invade countries and kill who they like then pass it off with your argument that if they didn't do it someone else would. Would we accept that excuse from Nazi war criminals, or the Chinese or north Koreans. Or do you just accept it from the Americans as they are an acceptable face to you, mainly ran by white, English speaking people who eat the same kinda foods and live in a similar manner.

Yes, now you’ve got me. This is a WHITE thing.

Huzzah for the white, English speaking peoples!!!!!!




Or it might have something to do with moral motivations vs immoral motivations.

KWAG2019

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes but he’s not going to be removed. He’ll be acquitted in the Senate and you’ll find this has no effect on the 2020 election. Most voters are as set in their opinions of Trump as they have been since 2016. It’ll come down to moderates/independents in the swing states as always.

I was correcting an error that is also pushed by Trumpists that he hasn't been impeached. The violation of their oaths and the exposure of the GOP as utter hypocrites is an entertainment in itself. It remains to be seen if some true conservatives can rescue the party from Evangelical lunacy, white supremacy, criminals, Russian colluders and 1%ers.

Trump has been impeached and will forever be known as such. #impotus

J Mysterio

Sean.3516 wrote: »

As I’ve said, the Saudi’s are a-holes in a region filled with a-holes and the US is making a moral compromise by forming a coalition with them in order to stop Iran from getting a nuke they might actually use.

khamenei issued a fatwa against the development of nuclear weapons. He is against nukes as a weapon of war.

ArchXStanton

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry no your wrong .

He's not Gatling... But that doesn't suit the rambo movie that goes on in your head

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/world/middleeast/iran-isis-missile-syria.amp.html

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This was an Iranian cruise missile strike

And



As I said your wrong you've repeatedly made claims about Iran's prowess and capabilities based off a twatter account post ,

Setting fire at a petroleum production facility isn't a hard thing to do ,isn't it already back up and running ?

Edgarfrndly

AllForIt wrote: »

Not really clear what impeachment means if your don't actually loose your position of power.

I mean you can't really say you've been sacked from your job if your still doing the job.

Impeachment aside, do you defend holding an ally hostage with the threat to withhold military aid if they don't give assistance against a political rival?

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

And



As I said your wrong you've repeatedly made claims about Iran's prowess and capabilities based off a twatter account post ,

Setting fire at a petroleum production facility isn't a hard thing to do ,isn't it already back up and running ?

Patriot missile batteries and Saudi radar system protected saudi oil facilities. The Iranian missiles came in below radar coverage and missiles may have been computed to shift flight in the air to hit the targets. The patriot protects US bases in the region.. Unless you defending the US have some special sauce firepower to shoot down every missile Iran got? 

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Patriot missile batteries and Saudi radar system protected saudi oil facilities.

Apparently in this case no they weren't even operating in the area .