US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

Gatling

Mean while in Iraq American drone struck another convoy in Iraq in the last while killing 6 (likely to rise )
No details of who or what the actual target was


Airstrikes targeting Iraq’s Popular Mobilisation Forces umbrella grouping of Iran-backed Shi’ite militias near camp Taji north of Baghdad have killed six people and critically wounded three, an Iraqi army source said late on Friday.

Two of the three vehicles making up a militia convoy were found burned, the source said, as well as six burned corpses. The strikes took place at 1.12am local time, he said.”

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

Apparently in this case no they weren't even operating in the area .

Not true. Google it;) There was four batteries, but many analysts are unsure if Iran went around them or shifted the missile trajectory in flight to avoid detection? US claims they were looking the wrong way? Doesn't make lot of sense to me. I think the Patriot system got exposed for the first time by a capable missile.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I think the Patriot system got exposed for the first time by a capable missile.

No again the patriot is far from perfect not for the first time it's well documented

jmreire

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It’s actually Trump who has been poked by Iran for the past six months since they started lashing out at shipping lanes. He’s been quite reluctant to do anything in response until now. Remember when he called off an air strike on Iran because he thought it would kill too many people?

“Economic terrorism”. He’s been treating them with kid gloves.

If Iran wants the sanctions lifted it can happen very rapidly. They have to cease being the primary sponsor and leader of Shia terrorism and they have to abandon their dreams of getting nukes, both of which they failed to do under the Iran Deal so Trump tore it up and applied sanctions.

100% correct.
I'd say that Trump's main plan was to full fill as many of his election promises as he could, one of which was to finish all involvement in foreign wars, and to get the troop's home, and at the very least, if he could not do that, not to start any new wars. And in fairness, so far he has done that, even when he had to desert the Kurd's. But when the US contractor and some of his colleagues were killed, Trump had to respond, and he did this by bombing a hideout used by Al Qaeda / Iranian Quds forces. Iran retaliated by attacking the US Embassy, that finished the "Diplomatic" targeted response, and Trump gave the Green Light to kill the General. So it can be said, that Iran over calculated or mis calculated the American reaction when they attacked the Embassy. There was no way Trump could have "brushed "this under the carpet. To do so, would have finished him off completely in the coming election. Now it will have the opposite effect. The question now is how will Iran respond? because respond they will, or else appear weak to their own supporters, and this they cannot afford to do either. So it will be a case of What, When and Where.

Cheerful Spring2

Gatling wrote: »

No again the patriot is far from perfect not for the first time it's well documented

Thats the point, can it stop all incoming fire- I doubt it. 
Regards tonight.
US military denies the strike. Next suspect is Israel, or some rival hit the convoy. They all at it. 

Reuters is revealing that Iranian Ambassador to the United Nations,has stated to CNN that the response to military action is military action.

Iran to bend now would demoralise their fighters and resistance factions in the region. 

Gatling

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Thats the point, can it stop all incoming fire- I doubt it. 

No system can or ever will ,


The first gulf war was a prime example heavily defended air and ground spaces and America flew straight through as if nothing was there with impunity,

Georgia was another example russians suprise attack suddenly stopped after several days when russian aircraft started to get taken out easily from anti air systems

cameramonkey

Gatling wrote: »

Georgia was another example russians suprise attack suddenly stopped after several days when russian aircraft started to get taken out easily from anti air systems

It is believed that Georgia shot down only two Russian aircraft. The Russians shot down 4 of their own aircraft.



Georgian air defense was almost completely ineffective only matched by the Russian air forces ability to miss their targets and their inability to distinguish friend from foe.

alastair

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Yeah and you didn't even know they had oilfields in Syria...

Obviously he knew - he referenced the comparative oil output figures for Syria and Iraq. And his point about the military presence around the oilfields being primarily Russian hardware is supported by your links - which make clear the US military had not been deployed to oilfields yet, and that some arrangements would need to be made locally with the Russians if they were to attempt such a thing.

ArchXStanton

alastair wrote: »

Obviously he knew - he referenced the comparative oil output figures for Syria and Iraq. And his point about the military presence around the oilfields being primarily Russian hardware is supported by your links - which make clear the US military had not been deployed to oilfields yet, and that some arrangements would need to be made locally with the Russians if they were to attempt such a thing.

Obviously you and greenpilot at the time missed the pictures of soldiers standing guard beside oil derricks and armoured vehicles beside them, the stars and stripes flag in full view....

alastair

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Not true. Google it;) There was four batteries, but many analysts are unsure if Iran went around them or shifted the missile trajectory in flight to avoid detection? US claims they were looking the wrong way? Doesn't make lot of sense to me. I think the Patriot system got exposed for the first time by a capable missile.

It seems to me that the patriot system has never been able to deal with missiles - capable or otherwise. It did no good whatsoever against Scuds in Israel during the Gulf war, and the only successes it’s had in subsequent years, with upgraded software etc, has been against drones and one ‘70s vintage jet. The IDF certainly seem to consider it an anti-aircraft system now, rather than an anti-missile system.

alastair

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Obviously you and greenpilot at the time missed the pictures of soldiers standing guard beside oil derricks and armoured vehicles beside them, the stars and stripes flag in full view....

I certainly missed that in the links you provided. Because they weren’t in them.

An Ri rua

NIMAN wrote: »

Other than the price of oil rocketing, how is this going to affect us in Ireland?
I'm guessing not at all.

Plus, how are Iran going to have a war with the US? Its not like they can have a land battle, so surely sponsoring terrorist attacks on US targets is all they can do?

Just wait till Leo the Lion steps up and gives a few US diplomats their marching orders for breaking international law and breaching the sovereignty of a nation state (according to that nation state's PM).
The US of A will cop itself ****ing on then. Just you wait.

An Ri rua

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't really see how this airstrike will affect his impeachment - which isn't going to happen anyway.

You can't really follow politics and not be cynical but what I see as a possibility here is something big was always going to happen re Iran regardless, and Trump decided to go with it in a 'timely' fashion.

But I don't think that's what your suggesting, I think your suggesting he carried out an airstrike because of the impeachment proceedings where he never would have otherwise. I don't believe that, and I desperately hope I'm right about this, not for the sake of being right but because if I'm wrong the world is truly screwed.

You're so far wrong that it feels right but no, the world isn't screwed or ****ed, that's politics.

In this roll of the dice, however, the Iraqis are once again ****ed.

An Ri rua

Gatling wrote: »

The world knows where American bases are but nobody touches them why ,

Is it something like we might get lucky and lob a missile close to an American facility ,only to be hammered by land ,air and sea 24/7 365 days including launching bombing runs from America to anywhere on the planet ,
Iran would lose an substantial amount of their military infrastructure if they got a lucky shot on target ,
Iran hits America it's an act of war , that comes with consequences
Proxies can only get you so far

Are you implying by the above that the act of assassinating a commissioned officer on a 3rd country's soil ISN'T an act of war?

To all logical bystanders it certainly is. If any foreign power did so here, they would declare themselves legitimate targets.
Clearly they had just cause to want him dead, but that **** is not the way of nation states. It belongs in Hollywood only.

completedit

Trump knows the score. Simple game theory. Iran can’t move, anything they can do, USA can do way better. Trump calling the big shots and getting them right, this will be much to do about nothing overall.

Das Reich

Funny thing: all of my leftwing friends that are posting sh*t about Trump since few years are just silent now. They kind agree with war against Iran and Russia, if that woman were elected we would already be on war now. These left wingers seems to hate Russia and China and recently also Brazil.

Manic Moran

alastair wrote: »

It seems to me that the patriot system has never been able to deal with missiles - capable or otherwise. It did no good whatsoever against Scuds in Israel during the Gulf war, and the only successes it’s had in subsequent years, with upgraded software etc, has been against drones and one ‘70s vintage jet. The IDF certainly seem to consider it an anti-aircraft system now, rather than an anti-missile system.

That's because the Israelis and the US aren't using the same system. They share the same name and launch vehicles, but that's about the end of it.

Israel is using the older missile system, which was originally designed as an anti-aircraft system. A few modifications were made to enable it to at least engage ballistic missiles, becoming the first ground-based missile to have a shot at them (as demonstrated in 1991) but it remains an air defense missile at its core. For the anti-ballistic missile role, Israel has other systems such as Arrow to deal with them.

The Patriots in US service are far smaller, faster and more maneuverable, with sixteen missiles per launcher as opposed to four in the older system. It's optimised for the anti-missile role as opposed to the anti-aircraft role.

Of interest, it's cruise missiles which are the bigger threat. It's easy enough for the US Navy to shoot those down if they cross over the Gulf, but ground-based radars have serious difficulty acquiring them over terrain. As a result, the US relies mainly on airborne assets to intercept them en route. The point defense at possible targets is conducted by Avenger and C-RAM systems, not Patriots.

I wouldn't read too much into the Patriots only shooting at drones and old jets. They haven't really been given any modern targets to shoot at.

cosybeach

Haven’t heard many condolences been sent to Iran except the usual Russian, he was a terrorist and it was an appropriate message many in the civilized world would quietly applaud.
The sooner that dinosaur of a leader komemi kicks the bucket the better, his suppression of many Iranian peoples lives should end.

if this gamble pays off 4 more years ahead for the Donald and a nervous North Korea.

Am sure somebody has had a big payment delivered to there account on the confirmation

igCorcaigh

And all this sorry mess has been created by.... Men.

It's time for women to take over.

It's time for Iran to get their nuclear weapons programs up and running again. I'm tired of worrying about Iran. I'm pretty sure I was predicting a war 17 years ago when I was 15.

cosybeach

Deleted User wrote: »

It's time for Iran to get their nuclear weapons programs up and running again. I'm tired of worrying about Iran. I'm pretty sure I was predicting a war 17 years ago when I was 15.

Iran to get nukes ha ha your still 15

cosybeach

cosybeach wrote: »

Iran to get nukes ha ha your still 15

?

X111111111111

cosybeach wrote: »

Haven’t heard many condolences been sent to Iran except the usual Russian, he was a terrorist and it was an appropriate message many in the civilized world would quietly applaud.
The sooner that dinosaur of a leader komemi kicks the bucket the better, his suppression of many Iranian peoples lives should end.

if this gamble pays off 4 more years ahead for the Donald and a nervous North Korea.

Am sure somebody has had a big payment delivered to there account on the confirmation

It doesn't matter what happens and if it pays off or not President Trump is getting reelected in a landslide. American's vote on the economy

X111111111111

igCorcaigh wrote: »

And all this sorry mess has been created by.... Men.

It's time for women to take over.

In Iran :pac: Good luck with that

Manic Moran

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/petraeus-on-qassem-suleimani-killing-says-trump-helped-reestablish-deterrence/

Interesting interview with Petraeus on the matter. He opines it was a needed attention- getter and that the Iranians have a more limited set of options than most think.

s7ryf3925pivug

Manic Moran wrote: »

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/petraeus-on-qassem-suleimani-killing-says-trump-helped-reestablish-deterrence/

Interesting interview with Petraeus on the matter. He opines it was a needed attention- getter and that the Iranians have a more limited set of options than most think.

Cyber attack or attacks strike me as likely.

I guess someone has already mentioned the 50 billion barrels of oil they discovered a couple of months ago.

Voltex

Manic Moran wrote: »

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/petraeus-on-qassem-suleimani-killing-says-trump-helped-reestablish-deterrence/

Interesting interview with Petraeus on the matter. He opines it was a needed attention- getter and that the Iranians have a more limited set of options than most think.

Would that interview have been approved by the Pentagon? If so, its clearly sending a message to Tehran.

It almost reminds of the Yamamoto "sleeping Giant filled with terrible resolve" quote

Donald Trump

Das Reich wrote: »

Funny thing: all of my leftwing friends that are posting sh*t about Trump since few years are just silent now. They kind agree with war against Iran and Russia, if that woman were elected we would already be on war now. These left wingers seems to hate Russia and China and recently also Brazil.

Username checks out

KWAG2019

Funerals began in Baghdad and Iranian dead will have funeral in Tehran on Tuesday.

Thinking about air power and responses to it I saw last year that NATO pilots, Dutch I think, received threatening phone calls direct to them following NATO manoeuvres in Eastern Europe. Pilots were known by name and personal and family details. Another layer of Russian response in the grey area they are creating and exploiting ruthlessly. And where one leads, others follow.

s7ryf3925pivug

I don't get how a major general in the armed forces of a recognized state is considered a terrorist.