US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

SafeSurfer

RoryMac wrote: »

What are you on about??

Is it so hard for you to admit that Soleimani was a justified target?

I wouldn't dispute any of those and that fact that US intervention in the middle East has been a complete disaster costing millions of lives but that not the point I'm arguing

I’m not sure what point you are arguing. If world leaders start openly ordering the assasination of anyone who acts against their interests, the whole world will be a battlefield.

America, the great democracy, responds to terror by terror? This is what lost the war for the Black & Tans etc. They eroded their own legitimacy.

threeball

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry I’m not counting all the tin pot dictators in Africa. Just the honest hard working blacks.

Oprah Winfrey is worth more than Dr Dre and she's still not the richest black person. We'll just file that along with the rest of the tosh you post.

Sonics2k

pearcider wrote: »

The Democrats owned the slaves. The Republicans fought to free them. So you should be voting for Trump if slavery still grinds your gears.

The rednecks are by definition poor and working class so the thought of them owning slaves is funny. Funny the only place slaves still exist are in Muslim countries. But try telling that to your typical leftie.

Jesus are people still trotting this out? The Democrat and Republican parties are not the same now as they were 100+ years ago. It's quite commonly known by anyone with any basic level of understanding and education of the US political parties that they effectively "switched" in 1930's.

The Democrats of today are not the same people who would have been Democrats in the 1800's, and the exact same can be said for the Republican party.

Here's a good read on it:

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2019/jun/27/fact-checking-larry-elders-reparations-chatter-fox/

pearcider wrote: »

You’re demented. The richest black man in the world is Dr Dre. So how exactly did he make his money if it’s such a discriminatory system.


https://youtu.be/O0dCvQdt5XI

Personal responsibility is a hard pill for you leftists to swallow.

So your claim against a systematic and factual basis of discrimination in the US is the fact that Dr Dre is a billionaire?

Maybe read up on Dre's upbringing a bit, because he can damn sure tell you all about the discrimination he faced growing up, and that still exists today.

Dre became a billionaire through literal decades of work, smart business and investments and quite frankly, bloody good marketing. Whether it's about the music industry he's been heavily influencing for years, clothing and of course the Beats brand which paid all of his fellow artists to use and promote in their videos until eventually Apple showed up and bought it out.

Dre wasn't even that close to being a billionaire, and to this day it's not sure if actually is one. His big payout was from when Apple bought Beats for $3 billion, but after splits, taxes, fee's he walked away with about €500 million (still nothing to complain about).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2019/06/18/dr-dre-net-worth-800-million-in-2019/#497db6057a26

RoryMac

threeball wrote: »

And i'll ask again, what members of the american administration are fair game in that case?

I'd guess that's up to Iran to decide just like the US decided Soleimani was fair game due to his terrorist activities

archer22

Just to show what a hypocrite Trump is, he recently pardoned a war criminal Eddie Gallagher and invited him to his home.

Gallagher was described by his comrades as "Toxic and evil" and they accused him not only of stabbing a prisoner to death but also of shooting a 12 year old girl and an old man for kicks.

SafeSurfer

pearcider wrote: »

Sorry I’m not counting all the tin pot dictators in Africa. Just the honest hard working blacks.

Like Oprah Winfrey? Or are you discounting her because she is a woman?

Dre isn’t even a billionaire. You are talking rubbish and have been caught out twice!

RoryMac

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’m not sure what point you are arguing. If world leaders start openly ordering the assasination of anyone who acts against their interests, the whole world will be a battlefield.

Well in Soleimani's case it's a little more than against their interests tbf or are you saying he wasn't responsible for hundreds of US troops dying?

SafeSurfer

RoryMac wrote: »

Well in Soleimani's case it's a little more than against their interests tbf or are you saying he wasn't responsible for hundreds of US troops dying?

I don’t have any proof that he was responsible for any US deaths. Do you?

RoryMac

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I don’t have any proof that he was responsible for any US deaths. Do you?

We'll leave it there so

threeball

RoryMac wrote: »

Well in Soleimani's case it's a little more than against their interests tbf or are you saying he wasn't responsible for hundreds of US troops dying?

He was responsible for knocking Isis back on their heels and starting the beginning of their end whilst the US stood about twiddling their thumbs but hey so what, Americans good, Middle easterns Bad.

SafeSurfer

RoryMac wrote: »

We'll leave it there so

I’ll take that as a no.

threeball

archer22 wrote: »

Just to show what a hypocrite Trump is, he recently pardoned a war criminal Eddie Gallagher and invited him to his home.

Gallagher was described by his comrades as "Toxic and evil" and they accused him not only of stabbing a prisoner to death but also of shooting a 12 year old girl and an old man for kicks.

Trump loves a war criminal, can't stand war hero's that were captured though.

ArchXStanton

RoryMac wrote: »

We'll leave it there so

All we have is the US word... And well... Err, we know how they like to cry wolf and fabricate things.. Cough cough WMDs

Pretty sure I seen a tweet today were a journalist said two anonymous us military sources said the evidence that Soleimani was on Iraq to plan attacks was "razor thin"

Cheerful Spring2

YFlyer wrote: »

Have not read through whole thread. Pence said Iraqi guy was involved in the 9/11 event. Any truth to that?

Nobody absolutely knows the full story about 9/11. Most individuals are not even aware 4 hijackers were affirmed to be on another flight that day ( flight 23) and 4 men fled when the planes got grounded.
 It was about to take off from New York leaving for Los Angeles. Was not even mentioned or talked about the 9/11 commission report!  Even though it is known Al Qaeda materials were found in the baggage when they fled. Why no manhunt for them?
 
Pence may be privy to intelligence but there no ambiguity the known 19 were men were born in Arab countries- 15 were Saudi, One was from UAE, ATTA was from Egypt and Jarrad 93 (pilot) was born in Lebanon. I will be suspicious of US intelligence linking 9/11 to Iran personally. 

robinbird

Anybody think that Iran will blink and back down.
Allow themselves to be publicly humiliated by a bully.
Particularly now that Trump has threatened further escalation.

Democrat slavery and Beats by Dre in a thread about an Iranian general.. Do yourselves a favour and go to bed.

Gatling

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If there were no USA at all involved in the Middle East Iran May well be the largest democracy in the area now, instead of just a belligerent Israel.

Highly unlikely it's would be **** hole of tribal and religious violence and no way to keep it under control ,

Ask why in Iran protesting results in the army slaughtering civilians while blaming outside agents .

It's always someone else's fault

Cheerful Spring2

J Mysterio wrote: »

Bunch of fatuous sycophants seems like. He is out of control. I think the impeachment may have put him over the edge. The bloody evangelical maniacs fawning over him doesn't help his egomania/ god complex. This is a very dangerous time, it is scary.

Trump surrounded himself with hawks, i suspicious when people determine its all him doing this. He was presented intelligence and i guess he overreacted here. Pompeo keeps claiming Iranian attacks were imminent, and they done this to stop that.   Its clear lot of advice was provided to Trump, and they perhaps beefed it up to sound scarier for Trump. Trump got deceived by the neocons i think.  Only a few months ago he wanted no wars now he not shy to take out Iranian generals. Something happened behind the scenes for Trump to be this bold.  

Impeachment is doomed to fail, Republicans have the senate? I not sure how impeachment would propel Trump to this decision? 

robinbird

Trump is not a hawk or a warmonger by nature.
But surrounded himself with hawks and swayed by their advice.
Carter said that he did the right thing in 1979 but it cost him the presidency.
Iran had been pushing US for months. Embassy was the last straw.
Trump felt he had to do something decisive or risk looking weak and ineffectual.
Don't think killing Suleimani and humiliating Iran was the right choice.
But watch his popularity in US skyrocket.
And there is a small chance Iran will back down and take the humiliation.
He's called their bluff. Balls now in Iran's court. Their move.

AllForIt

robinbird wrote: »

Anybody think that Iran will blink and back down.
Allow themselves to be publicly humiliated by a bully.
Particularly now that Trump has threatened further escalation.

Yes. I think so.

That was the whole point.

It was a single targeted operation, and if Iran isn't scared by that then they should be.

The idea that Iran are in any position to retaliate on some significant scale is simply ridiculous. They don't have the means or the power.

The Iranian gov are only thinking now how to look good to their people, rather than to actually do anything effectively against the US.

The whole point of the strike is to make them consider what they are doing that brought about this situation.

They have 2 choices, they can either change their activities or they can will damage themselves further both economically and further damage themselves in a social world sense.

I do find it odd, that when the Iranian's talk about hitting back at the US, and their citizen's, that noone point's out the belligerent attitude of such statements. As if, it's totally fine for the Iranians, to be so aggressive, but if one is not of of that country, one must conduct themselves to higher standards.

It's completely typical the way the loony media are portraying these turn of events.

AllForIt

AllForIt wrote: »

They have 2 choices, they can either change their activities or they can will damage themselves further both economically and further damage themselves in a social world sense.

Pride. They've sought to establish themselves in the M.East as a leader, and doing nothing here will erode that authority.

And the idea that those are the only two options is naive. They've got a history of dealing with many elements in the terrorist world, and have been dealing with US behavior for decades. I'm sure they've got a think-tank of gifted people who can determine a decent measured response that won't cost them too much. What that is, I have no idea. But then, such is not my career or part of my actual life. It is for them.

I do find it odd, that when the Iranian's talk about hitting back at the US, and their citizen's, that noone point's out the belligerent attitude of such statements. As if, it's totally fine for the Iranians, to be so aggressive, but if one is not of of that country, one must conduct themselves to higher standards.

Because the US since WW1 has promoted itself, and other western nations to be of a higher standard in behavior than other nations. The British added to that with the notion of fair play, and it's something that's been part of the indoctrination of most of us regarding western behavior.

The US since Bush Jnr, has dropped considerably away from the knight in shining armor here to save us all from communism or the other evils of the world. Successive US presidents have consistently lowered the expectation of people that the US will hold itself to the standards that they preach to others.

Personally, I feel that Iran has to respond, and respond aggressively because it doesn't matter what they do, the US will continue to be aggressive towards them. It matters for the allies and those sympathetic to the Iranian cause, and shows that bullies need to be stood up to. I don't like that there has to be violence/war in the region, but, it's just the way it is.

It's completely typical the way the loony media are portraying these turn of events.

The media has no credibility anymore. The loony media is no longer about the news, and just... meh.

Discodog

I abhor Trump but he was right in this case. The talk of it starting a new war is ridiculous.

is_that_so

Discodog wrote: »

I abhor Trump but he was right in this case. The talk of it starting a new war is ridiculous.

Trump was right for Trump. The timing suits him very well going into a re-election.

Cody montana

Discodog wrote: »

I abhor Trump but he was right in this case. The talk of it starting a new war is ridiculous.

Do you think Iran are going to retaliate?

is_that_so

Cody montana wrote: »

Do you think Iran are got going to retaliate?

Well, he's got another 52 reasons for them not to! They certainly want an excuse, himself and his new BFF. They will respond, in time, but who knows what form that will take.

X111111111111

AllForIt wrote: »

Yes. I think so.

That was the whole point.

It was a single targeted operation, and if Iran isn't scared by that then they should be.

The idea that Iran are in any position to retaliate on some significant scale is simply ridiculous. They don't have the means or the power.

The Iranian gov are only thinking now how to look good to their people, rather than to actually do anything effectively against the US.

The whole point of the strike is to make them consider what they are doing that brought about this situation.

They have 2 choices, they can either change their activities or they can will damage themselves further both economically and further damage themselves in a social world sense.

I do find it odd, that when the Iranian's talk about hitting back at the US, and their citizen's, that noone point's out the belligerent attitude of such statements. As if, it's totally fine for the Iranians, to be so aggressive, but if one is not of of that country, one must conduct themselves to higher standards.

It's completely typical the way the loony media are portraying these turn of events.

I've said from day one of President Trump being elected that the looney liberal left will be happy enough for a war to break out and millions to die just so they can turn around and say "see i told you so" about President Trump being a war monger. Some of the stuff they have being coming out with the last few days has been pathetic, you'd swear the Americans had just killed a mother Theresa/Gandi hybrid instead of a terrorist murderer.

X111111111111

is_that_so wrote: »

Trump was right for Trump. The timing suits him very well going into a re-election.

What are you talkng about? The election isn't until November. Americans don't care about foreign policy btw it's all about the economy. If the economy sinks President Trump is gone, if it stay as is or improves he'll win in a landslide.

handlemaster

(CNN)In media appearances prior to the 2012 election, Donald Trump repeatedly predicted that then-President Barack Obama would start a war with Iran in order to win reelection.

is_that_so

X111111111111 wrote: »

What are you talkng about? The election isn't until November. Americans don't care about foreign policy btw it's all about the economy. If the economy sinks President Trump is gone, if it stay as is or improves he'll win in a landslide.

Ah, an expert speaks!

Gringo180

Gatling wrote: »

Highly unlikely it's would be **** hole of tribal and religious violence and no way to keep it under control ,

Ask why in Iran protesting results in the army slaughtering civilians while blaming outside agents .

It's always someone else's fault

Sounds a bit like Libya. Wonder who intervened there and made it a failed state thats a breeding ground for the likes of Isis and other head chopping and heart eating Islamic fundementalists.

The Iranians are no saints, but you paint America as some sort of Utopian nation where none of the above happens. You should read up about the Kent state shootings in Ohio, where unarmed college students were shot dead like dogs for protesting against the Vietnam War.