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US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

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    #1532
    X111111111111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Its real possibility Iran has hundreds of sleeper cells in US and Europe. If the US hit Iran cities and culture sites, then we may see events happening here?

    Trump lunacy will result in more damage. I still don't understand what actually happened to make Trump so mad. His plan was not get involved in new middle east war, now he all in. I thought he was doing well standing up to neocons for a while.I guess the finally got to him.

    Or maybe he got sick of letting disgusting murderers like Suleimani ran wild and continue to get away with terrorism. Sometimes you have to just kill the bad guys.


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    #1533
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    Fonny122 wrote: »
    I think he's just trying to push the post count beyond needing to be correct by many for literally not knowing Blackwater still exist under a name name, despite thinking of himself as some kind of military expert. :pac:

    I've seen him post some stuff here over the years, reminds me of my neighbour when he was a kid, all dressed in camo from army bargains, when you were playing army with him he always had to be the US and then he'd run home to watch Rambo, platoon or some arnie flick on the VCR


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    #1534
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭pearcider


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    I've actually come to the conclusion some people would be happy if the Iranians are stupid enough to attack and kill innocent westerner's in an attack by their proxies so they say "see told you so, orange man bad" etc...

    The same clowns would be crying out for American intervention if Iran got nuclear missiles and threatened Europe.

    Absolutely. They would rather see the West burn than admit Trump was absolutely right to take this lad out. I’m sure their tone would change if they were sitting on a flight that was hijacked by one of these jihadis. They’d be praying for the navy seals then.


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    #1535
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    I've actually come to the conclusion some people would be happy if the Iranians are stupid enough to attack and kill innocent westerner's in an attack by their proxies so they say "see told you so, orange man bad" etc...

    The same clowns would be crying out for American intervention if Iran got nuclear missiles and threatened Europe.

    If I was an American I'd be as much worried about the Trump/Putin destruction of my country.


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    #1536
    X111111111111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    alastair wrote: »
    It’s not a nil sum game. Trump is demonstrably an idiot, and this whole escalation has produced nothing but downsides for the US so far.

    Name a single downside.


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    #1537
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    Ruhani just raised Trump. I see your 52 and raise you 290.

    paper never refused ink


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    #1538
    Fonny122
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Fonny122


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    The same clowns would be crying out for American intervention if Iran got nuclear missiles and threatened Europe.
    pearcider wrote: »
    Absolutely. They would rather see the West burn than admit Trump was absolutely right to take this lad out. I’m sure their tone would change if they were sitting on a flight that was hijacked by one of these jihadis. They’d be praying for the navy seals then.


    Funny that, they have started their nuclear development again in direct response to this attack by Trump. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/01/05/world/middleeast/trump-iran-nuclear-agreement.amp.html

    So who's fault is it that Iran would have developed these nukes you are talking about?


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    #1539
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Or maybe he got sick of letting disgusting murderers like Suleimani ran wild and continue to get away with terrorism. Sometimes you have to just kill the bad guys.

    That’s primarily what Suleiman was doing - a bulwark against ISIS. That’s been his focus since Iraq fell apart post-invasion. The campaign against the US military was very much a secondary consideration.


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    #1540
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    alastair wrote: »
    Iran is well capable of causing years of grief for the US,

    Iran can cause issues no debate there ,

    But come on , what has Iran done militarily over the last few decades sent militias and terrorists into Iraq to butcher anyone insight who didn't believe in their book of fairy tales,
    Most ended up dead they killed more Iraqis civilians than they did coalition forces ,
    If America decided to pull out of the middle east tomorrow how long would it take before people begging them to go back when Iraqis say we don't want Iran anymore .

    Iran hasn't got the ability to fight full on wars in Iraq , Syria , Yemen and inside their own borders and keep any semblance of peace
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #1541
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Name a single downside.

    They’re being booted out of Iraq, leaving the void to be filled with Iranian, Turkish and Russian interests. As a consequence they’re being squeezed out of Syria - where they’re now at the mercy of Turkish patronage. They look like unreliable and inept partners internationally.


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    #1542
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ArchXStanton wrote: »
    Probably Bibi in his ear, Bibi is the greatest president the US public has ever had..

    It's strange, because his voter base don't call for new wars in the middle east. That why Trump kept saying i prefer to leave. Something happened all right just not positive what though. Only thing i think right now he saw intelligence ( real or fake) that moved him over the edge. Maybe the attack at the Iraq Embassy was enough to scare him, it hard to know.  Either way it is done now.

    There no doubt Israel glad US military will fight Iran.


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    #1543
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Name a single downside.




    I'll go for "oil"

    Oil prices top $70 a barrel amid fears over Suleimani retaliation


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/06/oil-prices-70-a-barrel-suleimani-retaliation-petrol-price


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    #1544
    Fonny122
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Fonny122


    Gatling wrote: »
    But come on , what has Iran done militarily over the last few decades sent militias and terrorists into Iraq to butcher anyone insight who didn't believe in their book of fairy tales,
    Most ended up dead they killed more Iraqis civilians than they did coalition forces ,

    The single least self aware thing I have read in quite some time.


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    #1545
    Beau Bennett
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭Beau Bennett


    alastair wrote: »
    What exactly would the Iranians be threatening Europe with nukes for? Are Israel, India, or Pakistan?

    Europe is definitely a target for Iran. Don't be fooled thinking we are exempt from responsibility for the carnage in the middle east when we've been at the US side pretty much.

    I think UK is going to get collateral damage in this.


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    #1546
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    It's strange, because his voter base don't call for new wars in the middle east. That why Trump kept saying i prefer to leave. Something happened all right just not positive what though. Only thing i think right now he saw intelligence ( real or fake) that moved him over the edge. Maybe the attack at the Iraq Embassy was enough to scare him, it hard to know.  Either way it is done now.

    There no doubt Israel glad US military will fight Iran.

    I seen a reporter that quoted 2 anonymous US military personnel as saying the evidence they had was "razor thin"


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    #1547
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Gatling wrote: »
    Iran can cause issues no debate there ,

    But come on , what has Iran done militarily over the last few decades sent militias and terrorists into Iraq to butcher anyone insight who didn't believe in their book of fairy tales,
    Most ended up dead they killed more Iraqis civilians than they did coalition forces ,
    If America decided to pull out of the middle east tomorrow how long would it take before people begging them to go back when Iraqis say we don't want Iran anymore .

    Iran hasn't got the ability to fight full on wars in Iraq , Syria , Yemen and inside their own borders and keep any semblance of peace

    They’ve ensured ISIS were defeated in Syria, they’ve built Hezbollah up into a force that can repeal the IDF, they’ve become the key influencer in Iraqi politics, they’ve provided meaningful aid to a diverse bunch of neighbouring countries and demonstrated far greater reliability and usefulness than US patronage. All while dealing with economic sanctions. They’re winning. They have been for some time.


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    #1548
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Name a single downside.

    Money, the cost of extra security
    Risk, the lives of Americans and allies
    Loss of freedom, due to increased security measures both domestically and internationally.
    Less cooperation from a potential scientific collaborator
    Less access to a region with high tourist and historic value.
    Increased levels of xenophobia and distrust domestically that reduce the standard of life for everyone.
    Lost opportunity to advance the civilisation and governance of a large country through mutual trust and respect.

    Was it really worth killing an incompetent general who will be easily replaced?


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    #1549
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Beau Bennett wrote: »
    Europe is definitely a target for Iran. Don't be fooled thinking we are exempt from responsibility for the carnage in the middle east when we've been at the US side pretty much.

    I think UK is going to get collateral damage in this.

    The Iranians and U.K. have been diplomatically aligned to a far greater degree for years now. It’s a nonsense to suggest that there’s any risk of Iran lobbing a nuke at them. Absolute nonsense.


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    #1550
    Achasanai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    His plan was not get involved in new middle east war, now he all in. I thought he was doing well standing up to neocons for a while.I guess the finally got to him.


    Plans change. There's a lot being said that the attack itself was an attempt to take the coverage away from his impeachment (which has worked if true, in fairness) as well as portraying himself as a war-time president in time for the real re-election campaign (the ongoing conflict in Syria wasn't giving him that kind of portrayal).


  • Options
    #1551
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    joseywhales wrote: »
    Money, the cost of extra security
    Risk, the lives of Americans and allies
    Loss of freedom, due to increased security measures both domestically and internationally.
    Less cooperation from a potential scientific collaborator
    Less access to a region with high tourist and historic value.
    Increased levels of xenophobia and distrust domestically that reduce the standard of life for everyone.
    Lost opportunity to advance the civilisation and governance of a large country through mutual trust and respect.

    Was it really worth killing an incompetent general who will be easily replaced?

    He was an extremely competent General. But he was also a long time in the game - most of his work will continue now that he’s set the mechanisms and connections in place. He’ll be replaced, and even if the replacements don’t quite match his abilities, the downsides of killing him are worse for the US than the upsides. What Iranian military figure is ever going to trust overtures from the US on meeting for de-escalation or mutually beneficial actions now?


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    #1552
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭pearcider


    Beau Bennett wrote: »
    Europe is definitely a target for Iran. Don't be fooled thinking we are exempt from responsibility for the carnage in the middle east when we've been at the US side pretty much.

    I think UK is going to get collateral damage in this.

    God sounds like you will take pleasure in having the jihadists dish out a bit of revenge for this. Let’s hope your daughter or sister is not at the Ariadne Grande concert when they do.

    Trump derangement syndrome knows no bounds.


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    #1553
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭pearcider


    alastair wrote: »
    They’ve ensured ISIS were defeated in Syria, they’ve built Hezbollah up into a force that can repeal the IDF, they’ve become the key influencer in Iraqi politics, they’ve lent meaningful did to a diverse bunch of neighbouring countries and demonstrated far greater reliability and usefulness than US patronage. All while dealing with economic sanctions. They’re winning. They have been for some time.

    They’re winning nothing. They’re economically bankrupt and their best people flee to the US or to Europe to escape their demented ayatollah and his backwards ideology.


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    #1554
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    pearcider wrote: »
    God sounds like you will take pleasure in having the jihadists dish out a bit of revenge for this. Let’s hope your daughter or sister is not at the Ariadne Grande concert when they do.

    Trump derangement syndrome knows no bounds.




    You are conflating Iranian Shia with extremist Sunni salafists


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    #1555
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭pearcider


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You are conflating Iranian Shia with extremist Sunni salafists

    Two sides of the same coin. They hate the west that’s for sure and they have done since Thermopylae.


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    #1556
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    pearcider wrote: »
    God sounds like you will take pleasure in having the jihadists dish out a bit of revenge for this. Let’s hope your daughter or sister is not at the Ariadne Grande concert when they do.

    Trump derangement syndrome knows no bounds.

    Comrade, Iranians are as much terrorists as the Americans. Trump is using such rhetoric to cover his ass. He attacked a high ranking General from another country. Now you can be cool with that but don't go shilling your spin as fact.


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    #1557
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    pearcider wrote: »
    They’re winning nothing. They’re economically bankrupt and their best people flee to the US or to Europe to escape their demented ayatollah and his backwards ideology.

    They’ve been under sanctions for years and achieved all of the above despite it. They’re winning. The regime is no more demented than it was in the ‘70s - less so in fact. Iranians have grown up in a theocratic society for 40 years - it’s not like it’s something new.


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    #1558
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    pearcider wrote: »
    Two sides of the same coin. ...........


    No, they are quite different, hence the hostility between them. I'm at something of a loss as to why anyone would conflate the two.


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    #1559
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    pearcider wrote: »
    Two sides of the same coin. They hate the west that’s for sure and they have done since Thermopylae.

    Not so. They'd a pretty nifty non-nuclear deal up until Trump pulled out and murdered their general, now all bets are off, for the US anyways.


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    #1560
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    pearcider wrote: »
    Two sides of the same coin. They hate the west that’s for sure and they have done since Thermopylae.

    If that’s the case, then the west has been hating the west too, and in doing so, causing way more strife. Nonsensical notion. Move on.


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    #1561
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Name a single downside.

    I'll name one , read this Twitter account from the US army page. They asked how did serving in the army effect you. PTSD suicide etc... It's makes for some interesting and depressing reading maybe you and pearcider wouldn't be so gung ho about war, if you knew what war was like. Maybe if Trump , Obama , bush, Cheney had served they wouldn't be so war hungry.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/USArmy/status/1131704927963766785?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-1254008688143304346.ampproject.net%2F1912201827130%2Fframe.html


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