US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

Curious_Case

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

yeah that doesn't really answer the question.

Apologies, "Hawks" as opposed to "Doves" would be those within the tight circle of state government that favour aggressive foreign policy, and enforcing it militarily.

ohnonotgmail

Curious_Case wrote: »

Apologies, "Hawks" as opposed to "Doves" would be those within the tight circle of state government that favour aggressive foreign policy militarily.

i know what a hawk is in this context thanks. i wasn't looking for a definition.

alastair

pearcider wrote: »

What happened to the German POWS captured by the Russians? Nearly all of them were killed. Contrast that with how the yanks treated their POWS. Don’t even get me started on the Japanese. The US is on a different level to most nations morally speaking. They have been the greatest force for freedom that has ever existed.

Lefties always overplay the Russian involvement in fighting the Nazis. They lost huge amounts of soldiers because they weren’t trained or equipped and their leadership had been purged by Stalin. The Nazis would’ve wiped the floor with them if it wasn’t for US air campaign against Germany. They left wingers and communist sympathizers that shockingly populate Western Europe today can’t admit WW2 was won by American industry and ingenuity.

Ehh, 3 million German POWs went to Russia at the end of the war. Lots died, but nowhere near a majority.

alastair

TeaBagMania wrote: »

nope, use your own time to find it

It’s not there. So I’m assuming you’ve nothing.

Manic Moran

smurfjed wrote: »

So if the USA pulled all their troops out of Iraq, how long would it be before civil war broke out?

A question I have no doubt that the Iraqis are asking themselves as well.

That said, much of the US (to include a lot of soldiers) are past caring. The attitude for a lot of people is "We've invested over a decade into trying to help the Iraqis sort themselves out. It's time they sank or swam on their own". If the US is asked to leave, I can't imagine too many Americans complaining.

Cuba is doing a hell of a lot better than Iraq! Remarkably Venezuela is too[/i]

Cuba's doing OK. Not incredibly, but OK. I'm not sure I'd share your assessment about Venezuela though.

Curious_Case

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i know what a hawk is in this context thanks. i wasn't looking for a definition.

Well then you must be requesting the names of the "hawks" within Trump's close circle ??

ohnonotgmail

Curious_Case wrote: »

Well then you must be requesting the names of the "hawks" within Trump's close circle ??

well done.

Curious_Case

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well done.

It was, wasn't it !!!

cosybeach

a iranian can holiday in america
an american cannot holiiday in iran

modern world would be safe with an obliterated iran

alastair

Manic Moran wrote: »

Cuba is doing a hell of a lot better than Iraq! Remarkably Venezuela is too[/i]

Cuba's doing OK. Not incredibly, but OK. I'm not sure I'd share your assessment about Venezuela though.

Not my assessment. It’s public GDP per capita rankings, infant mortality rates. Venezuela is a mess, hence my surprise.

alastair

cosybeach wrote: »

a iranian can holiday in america
an american cannot holiiday in iran

modern world would be safe with an obliterated iran

Iranian-Americans are having a tricky time getting back into the US at the moment. So I guess the the US should be obliterated too? I’m not clear on how this works.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-01-06/la-na-iranians-questioned-canada-border

circadian

cosybeach wrote: »

a iranian can holiday in america
an american cannot holiiday in iran

modern world would be safe with an obliterated iran

Classy.

Gerry T

pearcider wrote: »

What happened to the German POWS captured by the Russians? Nearly all of them were killed. Contrast that with how the yanks treated their POWS. Don’t even get me started on the Japanese. The US is on a different level to most nations morally speaking. They have been the greatest force for freedom that has ever existed.

Lefties always overplay the Russian involvement in fighting the Nazis. They lost huge amounts of soldiers because they weren’t trained or equipped and their leadership had been purged by Stalin. The Nazis would’ve wiped the floor with them if it wasn’t for US air campaign against Germany. They left wingers and communist sympathizers that shockingly populate Western Europe today can’t admit WW2 was won by American industry and ingenuity.

You need to rethink the Russian involvement. Of the 3.9m German soldiers dead/missing/pow in WW2, 2.1m were on the Eastern Front fighting Russia.

America joined the fight in 1942, not because it was the right thing, more because Japan bombed them. It wasn't until Nov '42 when the first US operation Torch saw US troops enter the fight. Their quick to invade all around the world when it suits them but a little sluggish when the opposition has some muscle.
Yes America played a central role, but Russia was the country that hit Germany with the killer blow, crippling Germany.
This should be a reminder of what can happen, what if China or Russia support Iran, now suddenly the world is in a very dangerous place.
The US have refused Iran diplomats entering the US to attend UN security council meetings, the aggressor is plain and simply the US, no country should attack another the way the US did. What the hell are they doing half way around the world in the first place. These countries hate USA because of all the interference. Maybe what's needed is for countries to put sanctions on the USA to put manners on them. They need to know they can't unilaterally do whatever they want.

MadYaker

Manic Moran wrote: »

A question I have no doubt that the Iraqis are asking themselves as well.

That said, much of the US (to include a lot of soldiers) are past caring. The attitude for a lot of people is "We've invested over a decade into trying to help the Iraqis sort themselves out. It's time they sank or swam on their own". If the US is asked to leave, I can't imagine too many Americans complaining.

Cuba is doing a hell of a lot better than Iraq! Remarkably Venezuela is too[/i]

Cuba's doing OK. Not incredibly, but OK. I'm not sure I'd share your assessment about Venezuela though.

“We’ve invested over a decade trying to help the Iraqis” give me a fcuking break. You invaded their country and bombed them back to the Stone Age, lied to the entire world about them having WMDs and killed their leader who although he was a despot he was at least providing some stability. Iraq is a basket case because of US intervention and your take on it is that you spent 10 years to help them? It’s like talking to someone from North Korea. How many Iraqis have died? Is it in the milllions yet?

Trump might pull out but I don’t think he will. He won’t start a war with Iran either. Foreign intervention doesn’t play well with his base.

ArchXStanton

MadYaker wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

A question I have no doubt that the Iraqis are asking themselves as well.

That said, much of the US (to include a lot of soldiers) are past caring. The attitude for a lot of people is "We've invested over a decade into trying to help the Iraqis sort themselves out. It's time they sank or swam on their own". If the US is asked to leave, I can't imagine too many Americans complaining.



“We’ve invested over a decade trying to help the Iraqis” give me a fcuking break. You invaded their country and bombed them back to the Stone Age, lied to the entire world about them having WMDs and killed their leader who although he was a despot he was at least providing some stability. Iraq is a basket case because of US intervention and your take on it is that you spent 10 years to help them? It’s like talking to someone from North Korea. How many Iraqis have died? Is it in the milllions yet?

Trump might pull out but I don’t think he will. He won’t start a war with Iran either. Foreign intervention doesn’t play well with his base.

Thanks for putting it into words, I've literally sat her for the last few minutes re-reading that post in dis-be-fcuking-lief

alastair

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Thanks for putting it into words, I've literally sat her for the last few minutes re-reading that post in dis-be-fcuking-lief

In fairness - he didn’t say that was his own opinion.

seamus

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's time they sank or swam on their own

This is largely true in any case. Countries will rarely, if ever, see foreign troops as heroes, especially if they've been around a while and aren't under the command of the local military.

The right to self-determination is generally pretty strong with human communities and a foreign entity seen to be acting in place of the national military will always be outsiders, no matter how well intentioned they are.

Eventually a withdrawal has to take place and a country allowed to stand on its own two feet.

X111111111111

cosybeach wrote: »

a iranian can holiday in america
an american cannot holiiday in iran

modern world would be safe with an obliterated iran

They don't need to be obliterated. Just kill the commanders and let the reformers win out.

Funeral was a perfect opportunity lost.

is_that_so

New boss same as the old boss?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51008996

cosybeach

X111111111111 wrote: »

They don't need to be obliterated. Just kill the commanders and let the reformers win out.

Funeral was a perfect opportunity lost.

ok with iran leaders inside there borders it is the arming of small armies outside were leadership vacuums appear and then to threaten western interests well one sided in the modern day

charlie14

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Do you actually read anything? check the quote on post 1844

Not only are you seemingly not able to comprehend, (or more likely ignore what doesn`t suit), you have now resorted to making it up as you go along.


There is no quote from you on post 1844.
Their is clear evidence there though that you haven`t a clue as to the US constitution or their Supreme Court ruling on the subject.
Or indeed what the word "alien" signifies in their ruling.


In fact you are so tied up in your own little narrow narrative that you cannot even see that it was the US Supreme Court that used the word alien.


Standards of posting have really hit rock bottom by some here.

charlie14

X111111111111 wrote: »

They don't need to be obliterated. Just kill the commanders and let the reformers win out.

Funeral was a perfect opportunity lost.

Great plan.
It is working so well in Iraq and Libya.
Was going great in Syria as well. Right up until America found out they were arming fundamentalists.
Really worked brilliantly in Afghanistan where the Taliban are still using weapon against the US that the US supplied them with as well.



Do you make any attempt to think through anything before you post, or do you just rattle off the first thought that enters your head.


Your not Donald J Trump by any chance ?
The similarities in posting style are uncanny.

4068ac1elhodqr

Maybe all this pressurised man love for their leader of sorts, is going a bit over the top:
"Stampede kills 40 mourners at funeral of Qassem and leaves more than 200 injured after huge crowds gathered in his home town ahead of his burial"

ArchXStanton

Lena Muscular Headphones wrote: »

Maybe all this pressurised man love for their leader of sorts, is going a bit over the top:
"Stampede kills 40 mourners at funeral of Qassem and leaves more than 200 injured after huge crowds gathered in his home town ahead of his burial"

Iran love their Martyrs, they even have a street named after Bobby Sands

TeaBagMania

charlie14 wrote: »

Or indeed what the word "alien" signifies in their ruling.

You said it, i didnt. but by all means keep back pedaling

Cheerful Spring2

notobtuse wrote: »

Could you imagine what would happen to Trump if it was learned there was an imminent threat to US personnel and he did nothing? I’d imagine a whole new impeachment inquiry by the Democrats would be undertaken claiming him unfit for duty.

The whole episode is crazy. A murderous thug with the death of some 600 US servicemen on his hands, and who was planning more mayhem, is taken out with a surgical strike and Trump is the bad guy. Trump Derangement Syndrome is sweeping the world.

US narrative not conclusive. During the insurgency, Shia and Sunni Iraq factions battled each other and Iranian firearms and explosive devices may have got supplied to Iraqi Shia groups to defend themselves. Once their weapons are supplied,  different groups receive them. There know actual evidence Soleimani at his direction ordered Iraq Shia groups to strike US troops in Iraq. It was more urgent to stop the violent Sunni insurgency back then to fight the US occupation. US politicians insist he was implicated in the murder of 600 US soldiers, least for me, that's complete rubbish, it just another excuse to designate another enemy a terrorist here.

Soleimani it is true backed the Assad government action against terror groups, and this is when he actually becomes a target.  I bet the Kurds see Soleimani differently; they often witnessed him in the foxholes with the Kurds when they were fighting ISIS for their own survival.  In my view, his came to help a race of people who deparately needed his help!

There know real evidence Iran was arranging this major war against the US in Iraq after 2003. This narrative an Israel one.  Iran was fighting to keep Assad in power and last thing on their mind years ago was fighting the US military across the region. When you allow Israel to attack Iran backed groups in Syria with no substantial threat about to happen, then you change the battle scene and Iran obviously will start to become more hostile towards the US. Israel acts on impulse and attacks based on threats they believe will come someday. That kind of war is very dangerous. 

alastair

“So if you are looking for imminence you need look no further than the days that led up to the strike that was taken against Suleimani.”
Pompeo.

Seems credible.

Meanwhile: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/qassem-soleimani-death-iran-baghdad-middle-east-iraq-saudi-arabia-a9272901.html

alastair

TeaBagMania wrote: »

You said it, i didnt. but by all means keep back pedaling

Says the poster unable to point to any evidence of the killing being legal.

MonkeyTennis

Surely Kushner is on the verge of sorting this out any day now?

TeaBagMania

alastair wrote: »

Says the poster unable to point to any evidence of the killing being legal.

says the person to lazy to go look for it