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US take out Suleimani - mod warning in OP

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    #2642
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭circadian


    I'll reserve judgement until it becomes clearer what happened. I can't see why Iran would intentionally shoot down a civilian aircraft.

    Possible air defence **** up? Yeah maybe. Technical fault due to someone not doing the pre flight checks properly and missing something given the day that's in it? Possible. This flight was delayed for an hour.

    Iranian military shooting down a Ukrainian civilian aircraft for ****s and giggles? I have some tinfoil for sale if this is what you believe.


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    #2643
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Iran said a dark day is coming for America. Instead they blew up a plane full of Canadians and bombed an empty air field.

    They must be working for team Trump 2020/with that logic

    Lets wait for the investigation of the flight data.
    The missile strike should keep the US and the Iranian citizens happy.
    circadian wrote: »
    I'll reserve judgement until it becomes clearer what happened. I can't see why Iran would intentionally shoot down a civilian aircraft.

    Possible air defence **** up? Yeah maybe. Technical fault due to someone not doing the pre flight checks properly and missing something given the day that's in it? Possible. This flight was delayed for an hour.

    If it was deliberate, I can't see the logic behind it. The missile strike was very logical so why do something that makes no sense?

    Iranian military shooting down a Ukrainian civilian aircraft for ****s and giggles? I have some tinfoil for sale if this is what you believe.

    I expect the flight data to come back and show a mechanical failure. Then we can have a long thread about it on the conspiracy theories forum.

    The missile strike was very logical and makes perfect sense, so why would they follow up with something that does not help them at all.


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    #2644
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    titan18 wrote: »
    Why would the Ukrainian embassy lie about it?

    Still think it's a mere engine failure?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1214829683147235329?s=19

    You don't open criminal investigations for engine failure.


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    #2645
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,598 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    GM228 wrote: »
    Still think it's a mere engine failure?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1214829683147235329?s=19

    You don't open criminal investigations for engine failure.

    You do, if someone's asked you to do them a favor, though.


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    #2646
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Iran said a dark day is coming for America. Instead they blew up a plane full of Canadians and bombed an empty air field.

    They must be working for team Trump 2020/with that logic

    More likely the US done it. They have form in that sort of terrorism.


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    #2647
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,593 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    GM228 wrote: »
    Still think it's a mere engine failure?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1214829683147235329?s=19

    You don't open criminal investigations for engine failure.

    What if it's against Boeing?


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    #2648
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    Stood up by blowing a plane full of innocent civilians out of the sky, some the people on here cheering on Iran last night then, clowns.

    This.

    There were many posters here, literally exploding in their pants at the thought of the Iranians giving the Ol Big Satan a bloody nose.

    Instead, they killed 70 odd of their own and 70 odd Canadians among others.
    Useful idiots.


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    #2649
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    GM228 wrote: »
    Still think it's a mere engine failure?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1214829683147235329?s=19

    You don't open criminal investigations for engine failure.
    You do open an investigation. As others have said it's more likely to be engine failure.


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    #2650
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    markodaly wrote: »
    This.

    There were many posters here, literally exploding in their pants at the thought of the Iranians giving the Ol Big Satan a bloody nose.

    Instead, they killed 70 odd of their own and 70 odd Canadians among others.
    Useful idiots.

    So you have decided 100% that Iran shot down the airliner based on?


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    #2651
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    markodaly wrote: »
    This.

    There were many posters here, literally exploding in their pants at the thought of the Iranians giving the Ol Big Satan a bloody nose.

    Instead, they killed 70 odd of their own and 70 odd Canadians among others.
    Useful idiots.

    What about the posters salivating at the idea that Iran shot the plane down?


    There's jizz feckin everywhere in this thread, and it's coming from all angles


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    #2652
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What if it's against Boeing?

    Boeing don't make the engines, and you don't open criminal investigations into (well proven) technology failures unless you have evidence of negligence etc, it simply does not happen that quick.


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    #2653
    X111111111111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    smurgen wrote: »
    More likely the US done it. They have form in that sort of terrorism.

    :pac: Jesus Christ i know it's early in year but have the supermarkets ran out of foil hats already.


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    #2654
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    is_that_so wrote: »
    You do open an investigation. As others have said it's more likely to be engine failure.

    Yes you open an investigation, not a criminal investigation.


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    #2655
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Boggles wrote: »
    So you have decided 100% that Iran shot down the airliner based on?

    Most likely cause at this stage until we know all the facts.
    I would not be saying they did it on purpose, but someone somewhere ****ed up.

    If indeed it was engine failure or something of the sorts, the odds of that happening on the night, with all the military activity going on, would be in the tens of thousands to one.


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    #2656
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    GM228 wrote: »
    You open an investigation, not a criminal investigation.
    Maybe that's how they do it in Ukraine. Not a leap to a conspiracy story.


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    #2657
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    markodaly wrote: »

    If indeed it was engine failure or something of the sorts, the odds of that happening on the night, with all the military activity going on, would be in the tens of thousands to one.


    Q: What do you reckon the odds for catastrophic engine failure leading to a crash is - normally away from military activity?

    A: higher than tens of thousands to one.




    Hold off 'till we hear more I reckon, too early to say.


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    #2658
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Maybe that's how they do it in Ukraine. Not a leap to a conspiracy story.

    Yes but there are other facts which can not be disputed, the real time ADS-B data recorders do not correspond to ANY engine fire/failure situation, the crew made no emergency declaration or squawking code, the ADS-B transmitter stopped suddenly at over 7,000ft in the air, the plane was accelerating and ascending until it's very last second, none of that happens for an engine fire or failure.

    It simply does not happen and anyone with knowledge in the industry knows this.


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    #2659
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    markodaly wrote: »
    Most likely cause at this stage until we know all the facts.

    The only "fact" you seem to have is some theory on coincidence.

    Correct?

    Maybe best let the air crash investigation bunch do their job before 100% deciding on what happened.

    I'm sure Boeing would love it was a missile though, the 737-800 is from the same family as the 737 Max 8.

    Hey what do you know, another coincidence.

    :rolleyes:


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    #2660
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭jmreire


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    How on earth can Soldiers survive 15 ballistic missiles

    '' 15 missiles hit us, but we're fine, ''

    makes no sense.

    Sure they can, especially if (A) they are not where the missiles hit, and (B) in hardened defence's, deep underground. This is a military installation. Remember all the missiles and bombs that hit Damascus, Aleppo, Homs etc...reduced to rubble, and killed many, but still people survived.


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    #2661
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Boggles wrote: »
    The only "fact" you seem to have is some theory on coincidence.

    Correct?

    Maybe best let the air crash investigation bunch do their job before 100% deciding on what happened.

    I'm sure Boeing would love it was a missile though, the 737-800 is from the same family as the 737 Max 8.

    Hey what do you know, another coincidence.

    :rolleyes:

    The MAX is a very different plane than the 737-800 though. Otherwise, they would be grounded as well.

    Sure, it may well be engine failure or something, but at this moment, it's looking like it was knocked out of the sky by something.

    We will see in the next few hours/days. Looking like it will be a repeat of the MH-17.


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    #2662
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,373 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Honestly doubt we will get the truth. Judging by the Ukrainian Embassy statement the cover up/clean up is well underway.

    I don't think Boeing are sending a team of investigators as they usually would.

    So irrespective of what comes out following investigation (and the aviation industry is the gold standard for getting to the bottom of such things and being forthright when they aren’t allowed necessary access to do so) you’ll just call it a cover up and hold to your original theory?

    Airplanes do fail and coincidences do happen. It may well have been an accidental / deliberate missile strike but there’s a huge amount of hot takes and instant reaction here off very limited snippets of information.


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    #2663
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    markodaly wrote: »
    The MAX is a very different plane than the 737-800 though. Otherwise, they would be grounded as well.

    Sure, it may well be engine failure or something, but at this moment, it's looking like it was knocked out of the sky by something.

    We will see in the next few hours/days. Looking like it will be a repeat of the MH-17.

    There are pictures of the wreckage which has punctures in the fuselage which is consistent with the MH17 attack.

    Whilst I would not normally jump into the conspiracy theory world there is simply zero evidence at this stage to suggest a simple engine fire/failure brought the plane down, and an awful lot of evidence which suggests otherwise, or at least does not correspond to any known course of events in such a situation.


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    #2664
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,223 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    GM228 wrote: »
    There are pictures of the wreckage which has punctures in the fuselage which is consistent with the MH17 attack.

    Whilst I would not normally jump into the conspiracy theory world there is simply zero evidence at this stage to suggest a simple engine fire/failure brought the plane down, and an awful lot of evidence which suggests otherwise, or at least does not correspond to any known course of events in such a situation.

    Can you link some evidence that suggests it was an attack?


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    #2665
    X111111111111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    So irrespective of what comes out following investigation (and the aviation industry is the gold standard for getting to the bottom of such things and being forthright when they aren’t allowed necessary access to do so) you’ll just call it a cover up and hold to your original theory?

    Airplanes do fail and coincidences do happen. It may well have been an accidental / deliberate missile strike but there’s a huge amount of hot takes and instant reaction here off very limited snippets of information.

    Oh come on. The chances of this being a coincidence are off the scale. I understand the caution and not wanting to rush to judgement but sometimes it's just blindingly obvious what's transpired.

    This plane was shot down by Iran either intentionally or by accident.


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    #2666
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Can you link some evidence that suggests it was an attack?

    Read through the thread.

    In the last few minutes Ukrain International Airlines has stated at a press conference there was no issues with the plane before take off and it was "one of their best".


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    #2667
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,223 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Oh come on. The chances of this being a coincidence are off the scale. I understand the caution and not wanting to rush to judgement but sometimes it's just blindingly obvious what's transpired.

    This plane was shot down by Iran either intentionally or by accident.

    Why do you think they would they would shoot down a civilian aircraft with Iranians on board a few miles from their own international airport?


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    #2668
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    GM228 wrote: »
    Read through the thread.

    In the last few minutes Ukrain International Airlines has stated at a press conference there was no issues with the plane before take off and it was "one of their best".

    Have you a link to that?

    Either way that is not evidence, that is damage limitation from the company that owned the plane.


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    #2669
    X111111111111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Why do you think they would they would shoot down a civilian aircraft with Iranians on board a few miles from their own international airport?

    Who knows. Sure they murdered 1500 of their own citizens for protesting a short while back. They are completely insane.


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    #2670
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,223 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    GM228 wrote: »
    Read through the thread.

    In the last few minutes Ukrain International Airlines has stated at a press conference there was no issues with the plane before take off and it was "one of their best".

    I can’t find this press conference, where did you see it? Nothing on their site and nothing in this thread either.


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    #2671
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,373 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    X111111111111 wrote: »
    Oh come on. The chances of this being a coincidence are off the scale. I understand the caution and not wanting to rush to judgement but sometimes it's just blindingly obvious what's transpired.

    This plane was shot down by Iran either intentionally or by accident.

    The investigation and eventual final report on MH17 - a shoot down conducted by unaccountable rebels in the middle of an active warzone and with full weight of the Russian disinformation machine attempting to obfuscate what happened - was incredibly declarative and conclusive. So we will find out exactly what happened in due course.


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