Promotion Issues

sonic2000

I apologise if this is posted in the incorrect area, but I would like to get an opinion of others before I take any action.

I would like to seek advice in relation to a concern of mine. I recently applied for a promotion in my place of work and feel I was unfairly treated, to the extent I believe my employers are in breach of the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015.

I will provide a timeline of events.
Nov 12, 2019- Position of Junior Duty Manager advertised internally on canteen notice board, but also by email to all staff. This advertised that the hotel is “currently looking for a Part Time Junior Duty manager.” Both notices advertised that the closing date for applications is Sunday 24/11/2019

Nov 21, 2019- After consulting other employees and seeking advice for them and being encouraged to apply, I decided this promotion suited me, having undertaken the role of Restaurant and Bistro Supervisor for the last year, and being very successful. For this reason, I applied for the promotion through the email provided in promotion advertisement.

Nov 21, 2019- HR responded by email to say they would be delighted to meet me on Friday 29th November at 3pm for an interview. Having met with our HR Administrator at work on November 22nd, we decided to re-schedule the interview for Monday 2nd December due to a clash with college exams and the absence of our General Manager.

Nov 22, 2019- Through word of mouth I hear a current employee has already been promoted to the role of Junior Duty Manager [closing date for applications was 24th November]. I find this hard to comprehend considering not all applicants have been interviewed [*3 applicants] and the closing date had not passed. This is followed by an email from HR outlining that they are “thrilled to announce the promotion” of applicant A.

Dec 2, 2019- I attend an interview with our HR Administrator and General Manager. Overall, I was delighted with my interview, and felt from our discussion that this role suited me, and I would be the ideal candidate. Our HR Administrator concluded the interview outlining that “we have already made an appointment already as you may be aware of. However, we are considering a second appointment in the New Year.” I followed this up, clarifying it would be the same job that I previously applied for. This was clarified.

Dec 19, 2019- HR Administrator informs me in person that I was not successful this time round, stating “You are not ready for the role yet!” Naturally, this upset me and really affected my self-esteem and confidence.

*this employee that was promoted has mentioned to other staff that he was encouraged to apply by Senior Management. He stated he knew he was getting the job prior to being interviewed.
* 3 Applicants:
A) Successful Applicant
Myself
C) Internal applicant- also applied on Nov 21. Received an email saying applicants are now closed and she was not what they were looking for this time round.

My concerns are:
1) Can the hotel promote an applicant without interviewing all applicants and within the closing date as advertised?
2) Is the hotel in breach of Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015?
3) Have I been mistreated, and could I have a case?

I would appreciate if you could advise me on my rights and if I could have a case.

Turkish1

No advice to add really but this is often the way with internal role/promotions. It is already essentially confirmed but they go through the motions to tick the box - it's just that people (HR in particular) aren't usually dumb enough to leave a trail/be so open that this was purely an exercise in optics.

beauf

Why that act? Which of the 9 grounds applies?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/equality_in_the_workplace.html

CageWager

Private companies can hire/promote whoever they want. You lost out on a promotion to a junior management role and your first reaction is to “take a case”?? This kind of attitude is the exact opposite of what will win you promotion up the ranks.

Its always a knock to the confidence when you don’t get a promotion. Don’t let it derail you. Don’t be petty or resentful of the person who got the job. Put your head down, keep working hard and the promotions will come.

Professor Genius

sonic2000 wrote: »

I apologise if this is posted in the incorrect area, but I would like to get an opinion of others before I take any action.

I would like to seek advice in relation to a concern of mine. I recently applied for a promotion in my place of work and feel I was unfairly treated, to the extent I believe my employers are in breach of the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015.

I will provide a timeline of events.
Nov 12, 2019- Position of Junior Duty Manager advertised internally on canteen notice board, but also by email to all staff. This advertised that the hotel is “currently looking for a Part Time Junior Duty manager.” Both notices advertised that the closing date for applications is Sunday 24/11/2019

Nov 21, 2019- After consulting other employees and seeking advice for them and being encouraged to apply, I decided this promotion suited me, having undertaken the role of Restaurant and Bistro Supervisor for the last year, and being very successful. For this reason, I applied for the promotion through the email provided in promotion advertisement.

Nov 21, 2019- HR responded by email to say they would be delighted to meet me on Friday 29th November at 3pm for an interview. Having met with our HR Administrator at work on November 22nd, we decided to re-schedule the interview for Monday 2nd December due to a clash with college exams and the absence of our General Manager.

Nov 22, 2019- Through word of mouth I hear a current employee has already been promoted to the role of Junior Duty Manager [closing date for applications was 24th November]. I find this hard to comprehend considering not all applicants have been interviewed [*3 applicants] and the closing date had not passed. This is followed by an email from HR outlining that they are “thrilled to announce the promotion” of applicant A.

Dec 2, 2019- I attend an interview with our HR Administrator and General Manager. Overall, I was delighted with my interview, and felt from our discussion that this role suited me, and I would be the ideal candidate. Our HR Administrator concluded the interview outlining that “we have already made an appointment already as you may be aware of. However, we are considering a second appointment in the New Year.” I followed this up, clarifying it would be the same job that I previously applied for. This was clarified.

Dec 19, 2019- HR Administrator informs me in person that I was not successful this time round, stating “You are not ready for the role yet!” Naturally, this upset me and really affected my self-esteem and confidence.

*this employee that was promoted has mentioned to other staff that he was encouraged to apply by Senior Management. He stated he knew he was getting the job prior to being interviewed.
* 3 Applicants:
A) Successful Applicant
Myself
C) Internal applicant- also applied on Nov 21. Received an email saying applicants are now closed and she was not what they were looking for this time round.

My concerns are:
1) Can the hotel promote an applicant without interviewing all applicants and within the closing date as advertised?
2) Is the hotel in breach of Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015?
3) Have I been mistreated, and could I have a case?

I would appreciate if you could advise me on my rights and if I could have a case.

If you that easily upset and had your confidence and self esteem knocked so then you aren’t ready for a management role as per HR. You don’t have any case.

_Brian

while the company handled things poorly they didn’t nothing wrong.

There is definitely no equality breach that’s for sure.

You applied, you were interviewed, you were unsuccessful.

Yes someone else was appointed to a similar role during the process but you were interviewed for a subsequent role which you were unsuccessful for.

The very truth is many if not most internal roles are allocated before they are advertised. It’s really common and to my knowledge not breaking any rules either. The interviews can be a formality and also an opportunity for others to put themselves forward to be considered in the future.

You should never go for interview if your self esteem is going to be badly bruised from an unsuccessful outcome. This is work, a job, it’s not something to be measuring your self esteem by, amd if you are doing that I’d urge you to make changes and value yourself differently.

Dav010

sonic2000 wrote: »

My concerns are:
1) Can the hotel promote an applicant without interviewing all applicants and within the closing date as advertised?
2) Is the hotel in breach of Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015?
3) Have I been mistreated, and could I have a case?
.

1. Yes. The closing date is the final date that applications recieved will be considered, but the company are not bound to that date in making a decision on who to promote.
2. On what grounds do you feel you were discriminated?
3. Generally, only one applicant will get the job advertised, would you say all other applicants are mistreated because they weren’t successful?

Op, have you any reason to suspect you were discriminated against? You would want to have a good case if you make a claim in the WRC, if you make it just on the basis that you are upset you didn’t get a job you really wanted, it’s a career killer, what employer would risk employing someone who makes a complaint any time they don’t get the job advertised?

Augme

OP, not to be hard here but you need to have a think about your reaction and behaviour in all of this if you want to learn from it and take the positives out of it.

While the company after very foolishly in how they acted your reaction has been poor, at best. It's a good thing you posted here rather than contacting your company with your thoughts or complaint. That would have been a disaster.

Did you even do any decent research into the employment equality act? Because I can't see how you would think you have a case based on what you have said in the OP.

As mentioned, if failed interviews have such a negative impact in you then I would reconsider going forward for interviews until you can handle rejection better.

To sum up, how you reacted to this incident for me would confirm that you really aren't ready for a position as manager. I understand it is frustrating to fail and interview and the way they went about it was poor but welcome to the real world and the world of internal promotions. It is very rare for internal promotions in the private sector to be run on a level playing field tbh. You need to get used to that fact.

KevRossi

You'd be better off going back to HR/Management and asking for some analysis as to why you're not suited for the job right now. Ask them where you can improve and if there is anything that you can do (short course) to improve yourself in that area.

You should approach any interaction with HR/Management looking keen to improve yourself and not looking bitter or angry that you were rejected.

beauf

Turkish1 wrote: »

No advice to add really but this is often the way with internal role/promotions. It is already essentially confirmed but they go through the motions to tick the box - it's just that people (HR in particular) aren't usually dumb enough to leave a trail/be so open that this was purely an exercise in optics.

I have to agree. The interviews are just for show, they've already picked who they want. I don't really know why they bother with holding sham interviews. I don't know why people try to put a positive spin on it.

I guess it's good practise for interviews. If nothing else it tells you, they don't have the same opinion of you that you do of yourself. So time for some reflection that perhaps it's time to move somewhere else or change tack where you are.

I'm guessing the OP hasn't worked in many places because this is pretty normal in lot of places. It's hard not to get annoyed by it, but you shouldn't it's normal.

In our place you they put you through a long complicated and time consuming process (takes days) to do the same thing. A least you don't have to do that.

Batgurl

OP, you mentioned college exams. Is it possible that they don’t see you as a long term solution for this vacancy? ie when you finish college, you are going to go looking for a “real” job.

You should feel happy you got to the final three. It’s clear they think a lot of you as they still considered you for the role AFTER hiring someone else. Maybe they were trying to see if they could find a role for you that would suit.

There is no discrimination here and I hope you are over your disappointment now and can see this for the career-building experience this was.

the_syco

Batgurl wrote: »

OP, you mentioned college exams. Is it possible that they don’t see you as a long term solution for this vacancy? ie when you finish college, you are going to go looking for a “real” job.

This was my first thought as well.

OP; thread carefully. If you go nuclear on this option, it's doubtful they'd consider you for any promotions going forward.

Quigs Snr

Internal promotions are usually coronation ceremonies. Usually there is a "lead candidate identified" and if they apply its theirs. Sometimes you get someone even better surprise you by applying in which case it becomes a contest or a second role is created.

Nothing you can do. It happens. Keep demonstrating your ambition, keep doing the things that put you in the frame in the first place... things change... people change and move on.. you keep delivering the goods and make yourself the kind of person that makes your managers problem go away (not add to them with unwinnable cases)... your time will certainly come.

Saying this as someone who makes such decisions... but also spent many years being passed over by people unfit to so much as hold my coat. Do what i did. Bite your tongue, ace your job and be patient. Give them no choice.

OMM 0000

Professor Genius wrote: »

If you that easily upset and had your confidence and self esteem knocked so then you aren’t ready for a management role as per HR. You don’t have any case.

As harsh as the above sounds, I agree with it.

Also, if you take a case against the hotel over this, you can kiss any career there goodbye. They will think you're dangerous.

splinter65

OMM 0000 wrote: »

As harsh as the above sounds, I agree with it.

Also, if you take a case against the hotel over this, you can kiss any career there goodbye. They will think you're dangerous.

....and any career in any hotel in Ireland either. It’s a very small country like that very heavily relying on the hospitality trade. They all chat to one another. If the OP takes a pointless case to WRC the hotel will win easily, the OP will be looking for a new job and if he/she puts this hotel as a reference then you can kiss that job goodbye.
Hotels are hammered with staff making complaints to WRC.

Jim Root

I wouldn't spend too much time on this OP, move on for your own sake.