Just got fired

partyguinness

Sorry OP but if the place is willing to do this so readily you are probably better off out of it in the long run.

Do you really want to work somewhere like that?

beauf

partyguinness wrote: »

..It was not just the missing days that got you sacked- just a convenient story. They wanted rid of you full stop....

Exactly.

partyguinness

Seanachai wrote: »

I rarely use all of my sick days in a year but reading this makes me want to go off-grid and be done with companies for good.

Hold on "use all of my sick days in a year". Read that again and let it sink in.



Are you a public sector worker by any chance who see "sick days" as basically additional holiday?



I have sat and heard public sector friends of mine say "Oh sure I have sick days coming to me.". Cue Ricky Gervais side glance to the camera by me.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

OP,

It was not just the missing days that got you sacked- just a convenient story. They wanted rid of you full stop.

I have sat at both sides of the table.

So have I. It's an eye opener on both sides !

beauf

partyguinness wrote: »

Hold on "use all of my sick days in a year". Read that again and let it sink in.
Are you a public sector worker by any chance who see "sick days" as basically additional holiday?
I have sat and heard public sector friends of mine say "Oh sure I have sick days coming to me.". Cue Ricky Gervais side glance to the camera by me.

Happens in private sector too. Though to any private place decent enough to have sick leave, probably has a load of performance incentives to counter it. They can also sack people.

Though he could have meant never been sick enough to need them all.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

You want to see the legislation for terms and conditions that are entirely at the discretion of the employer?

You neglected to mention the discretionary part in your earlier post.

Some might consider that pertinent information in the context of the thread.

beauf

Graham wrote: »

You neglected to mention the discretionary part in your earlier post.

Some might consider that pertinent information in the context of the thread.

You'd think anyone with experience of working would be aware of that.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

Graham

beauf wrote: »

You'd think anyone with experience of working would be aware of that.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

I'm sure details of discretionary benefits which the OP doesn't appear to have will be very helpful.

mouthful

Get your union to put a claim in for four weeks pay due to their apparent disregard of your right to be issued with a contract in a timely manner

https://www.williamfry.com/newsandinsights/news-article/2019/03/04/the-employment-(miscellaneous-provisions)-act-2018

beauf

Graham wrote: »

I'm sure details of discretionary benefits which the OP doesn't appear to have will be very helpful.

Its was pointed out from the 2nd post and countless times since. By all and sundry. I wasn't posting for that.

I was posting that for policies and procedures. You can't really fire someone for not following procedure, if you either don't have one, or haven't make the employee aware of it.

Even if the op took a case and won. It would be a hollow victory. For various reasons. Others have already covered that.

However there is an opportunity here to become informed. That it's important to inform yourself of your terms and conditions. Follow them to the letter or they might be used against you.

mouthful

beauf wrote: »

Its was pointed out from the 2nd post and countless times since. By all and sundry.

The issue really is about having a policy in place. You can't really fire someone for not following procedure, if you either don't have one, or haven't make the employee aware of it.

Actually you can fire someone for any reason or none, the question is will the dismissal be fair or unfair.

This worker does not have the necessary service (one year) to take a case under the UD Act. There is also no apparent discrimination under the prescribed factors.

In this regard his/her union should ensure all holiday pay is secured (one week) adequate paid notice is received and the four weeks claim under the MP Act. That is why people join unions to protect themselves from bad employers

mouthful

BBM77 wrote: »

Not to make light of your problem but this does not seem too bad. At least you were given a reason based on things you did, even if it was harsh. I was let go during a probationary period on one job. I was not given an actual reason, I exceeded client’s expectations and did not miss a day. On one project I was able to progress it more in two weeks than it had been for years. Was just called into a meeting and told they were finishing up with me. My performance seemed to show my manager up as performing poorly so I had to go.

These things happen in the workplace you just have to put it down to experience and move on. Managers are just people at the end of the day. You don’t know what is going on in their head and they can have very fragile egos.

You have a legal right to a written explanation as to the formal reasons for your dismissal - failure to issue it allows the worker to take a case-

robtri

mouthful wrote: »

You have a legal right to a written explanation as to the formal reasons for your dismissal - failure to issue it allows the worker to take a case-

probation period is different. so this is not always true

most contracts of employment would have it stated in contract during probation you can be let go without any notice or reason.

Contracts do vary so its always worth checking

some good advice here
http://brophysolicitors.ie/probationary-periods-a-guide-for-employers-and-employees/

mouthful

robtri wrote: »

probation period is different. so this is not always true

most contracts of employment would have it stated in contract during probation you can be let go without any notice or reason.

Contracts do vary so its always worth checking

some good advice here
http://brophysolicitors.ie/probationary-periods-a-guide-for-employers-and-employees/

When in doubt go to the act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1977/act/10/section/14/enacted/en/html#sec14

Section 14.4 for ease of reference

gl0Rob

mouthful wrote: »

When in doubt go to the act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1977/act/10/section/14/enacted/en/html#sec14

Section 14.4 for ease of reference

Section 2 is also useful for exclusions to the act

mouthful

gl0Rob wrote: »

Section 2 is also useful for exclusions to the act

Would love to see an employer try that in the Labour Court.

Err Chairperson we did not give an explanation because we did not want to. We had a clause which denied the reasonable expectation that the employer would issue it.

work

Seanachai wrote: »

I rarely use all of my sick days in a year but reading this makes me want to go off-grid and be done with companies for good.

What is wrong with people in Ireland. If you don't like your employment situation then go somewhere else. If you don't like that or the next one or the next one then WORK FOR YOURSELF.
Try being an employer in Ireland it is difficult to say the least. I have great employees and look after them well. I thank God they do not have the caustic attitude of some here.
2 days off in 3 months is very significant OP and yes you are not "worth the risk" but I am sure it is a little more than that like motivation, ability, team player etc, you probably fail on lots of these but they do not need to discuss this with you. Move on and try harder.
Now my favorite bit form this post..."I rarely use all my sick days", Imagine being an employer in Ireland and dealing with that level of stupidity/entitlement, so much so the poster didn't even think its abnormal. We have a caustic environment for small business in Ireland. But don't worry because those of us running small businesses are too busy trying to run the show to deal with this.
Obviously Ive given the employer end and the employee end can be bad but at least its easier to move on.

oholly121

Wow you sound like a great employer – id love to work for you ( that was sarcasm by the way )

“I thank God they do not have the caustic attitude of some here”. – Really exercising their legal right against unfair and unfounded dismal – Right
Questioning an employers ethics around a potentially unfair dismissal – OK

“2 days off in 3 months is very significant OP and yes you are not "worth the risk" but I am sure it is a little more than that like motivation, ability, team player etc, you probably fail on lots of these but they do not need to discuss this with you. Move on and try harder.” - Is 2 days off in 3 months a catastrophic issue for any company even in probation id wager a No here and again if in your mad perception a company can’t operate on your above notion on the absence of 1 employee for a day or so then really you’d need to ask yourself “should I be running my own company and or recruiting

And now for MY favourite part of your post “ "I rarely use all my sick days", Imagine being an employer in Ireland and dealing with that level of stupidity/entitlement, so much so the poster didn't even think its abnormal “ Because it’s a legal requirement that you are entitled to sick days if your are indeed ill

Do you expect your employees to come to work if their sick? Really?

Again you sound like a great employer !

lainey_d_123

partyguinness wrote: »

Hold on "use all of my sick days in a year". Read that again and let it sink in.



Are you a public sector worker by any chance who see "sick days" as basically additional holiday?



I have sat and heard public sector friends of mine say "Oh sure I have sick days coming to me.". Cue Ricky Gervais side glance to the camera by me.

Yeah, God forbid people who are working 40 hours a week for years on end might take some time off for their health and mental wellbeing. Far better to have people slaving away like good little serfs so they can get home exhausted every night, cook dinner, go to bed, get up, do it all again and drop dead shortly after retirement.

Dodge

work wrote: »

What is wrong with people in Ireland. If you don't like your employment situation then go somewhere else. If you don't like that or the next one or the next one then WORK FOR YOURSELF.
Try being an employer in Ireland it is difficult to say the least. I have great employees and look after them well. I thank God they do not have the caustic attitude of some here.
2 days off in 3 months is very significant OP and yes you are not "worth the risk" but I am sure it is a little more than that like motivation, ability, team player etc, you probably fail on lots of these but they do not need to discuss this with you. Move on and try harder.
Now my favorite bit form this post..."I rarely use all my sick days", Imagine being an employer in Ireland and dealing with that level of stupidity/entitlement, so much so the poster didn't even think its abnormal. We have a caustic environment for small business in Ireland. But don't worry because those of us running small businesses are too busy trying to run the show to deal with this.
Obviously Ive given the employer end and the employee end can be bad but at least its easier to move on.

Fair bit of generalisation there. One poster mentioned they didn’t take ‘sick days’ and you’ve established that that person is representative of the whole public service and then all employees

We do not have a caustic environment for small business in Ireland. To give you your own advice, if you don’t like your situation l, move on

lainey_d_123

beauf wrote: »

You're implying that taking a sick day is never genuine.
That if someone says they are sick its never genuine.
Basically people never get sick enough not to go to work.

Maybe you should share some of your ideas on the long term illness forum and let us know how you get on.
Let them know they are not creating a "good impression"....

I know...the ableism on this thread is disgraceful. I'd love to know who the posters are to make sure I don't go anywhere near those workplaces.

Some people simply do not have good health, often through absolutely no fault of their own. People have Crohn's, ulcerative colitis and other illnesses which make it difficult or impossible go into the office on certain days. They might have mental health issues which flare up now and again.

The idea that 'good' workers never get time off sick is outdated, discriminatory and downright ridiculous. You might have an excellent employee who is good at their job but who suffers from a chronic illness and needs more time off sick than most. So what? Do you worry you're not getting enough value for money if you allow people the time off they need?

Graham

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Some people simply do not have good health, often through absolutely no fault of their own. People have Crohn's, ulcerative colitis and other illnesses which make it difficult or impossible go into the office on certain days. They might have mental health issues which flare up now and again.

Don't think the OP mentioned any of the above.

Morgans

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I know...the ableism on this thread is disgraceful. I'd love to know who the posters are to make sure I don't go anywhere near those workplaces.

Some people simply do not have good health, often through absolutely no fault of their own. People have Crohn's, ulcerative colitis and other illnesses which make it difficult or impossible go into the office on certain days. They might have mental health issues which flare up now and again.

The idea that 'good' workers never get time off sick is outdated, discriminatory and downright ridiculous. You might have an excellent employee who is good at their job but who suffers from a chronic illness and needs more time off sick than most. So what? Do you worry you're not getting enough value for money if you allow people the time off they need?

You aren't going to convince the hardliners on here, but you are continually making lots of sense. The 'employer who is always right' attitude is one of the main reasons why so many work environments are toxic and miserable. Often in smaller offices. The type who defend the employers who discriminate against women of a certain age, you know in case they might want kids in the future, anyone who discloses they have an illness at interview, and the type that believe employers are justified in not passing a staff member because of one sick day when under probation. Obviously, they are not so stupid to disclose this. The attitude of the employers are always right comes from a position of insecurity, and a lack of self-respect from the employee, but it causes huge damage. It gives employers licence to act accordingly. The best employers dont view their employees as mercenaries. Try to avoid working in those companies if at all possible.

Strumms

For all the people claiming two sick calls within the first 13 weeks isn’t good enough. Rubbish. If during that time something happens to your health whereby you are unable/unfit to attend work, you call in end of. 13 weeks is exactly a quarter of a year, and you missed 2 days, for valid reasons, that wouldn’t be excessive or unexpected. I’d be more disappointed in an employee who dragged their arse in coughing, sneezing or pale with migraines, the first two symptoms with the capacity and likelihood to pass it on to other employees who in turn could miss work.

The average annual sick days in Ireland in private sector is 6 days per year. Public sector 11.

Strumms

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

2 days taken off for separate reasons within the 1st 3 months....

They probably see it as a sign of things to come, and it just not being worth their hassle.

They missed 1.3% of work because of illness during their duration of employment , sign of things to come, you are dead right... better off out of there, not looking back, a bullet dodged.

Graham

The OP wasn't sick for 2 days. One of those days a tall-tale about a car breakdown was given.

An employer not in full possession of the full/real story might (correctly) question the legitimacy of that absence and by extension the reliability and/or trustworthiness of any employee. Never mind one that's only been there a few weeks.

While most people/employers would naturally be sympathetic knowing the real reason for the second absence, it's hardly reasonable to expect the same consideration from an employer unaware of the facts.

the_syco

Emilee wrote: »

I only started working for this company 13 weeks ago, called in sick once, then another time cause of car issues.

Emilee wrote: »

I live 25+ miles from work, they knew that when they hired me. I appreciate your response thank you.

I'm sure others have come from further away. In the 1st year, you don't have have many (any?) employment rights, and can be let go without reason.

lainey_d_123

Graham wrote: »

Don't think the OP mentioned any of the above.

Who cares? The employer doesn't know, and so what if OP was off with something less 'serious'? I can't stand people who come to work dying of the cold and infecting everyone around them.

There is no benefit to presenteeism whatsoever. It's fairly obvious if an employee is a p1ss taker or not. Number of days off sick doesn't automatically make someone a slacker.

mouthful

I guess the lesson is some employers are decent people, whilst others are getting squeezed by the thug employers who perceive us wage slaves as very dispensable, or are the thug employers themselves.

I am biased but my life experience has told me th bosses have their experts (accountants, HR legal etc) if we go into a workplace without being a union member we are at their mercy.

Even individual membership (if the others do not want to join) offers protection and a much stronger voice

lainey_d_123

Morgans wrote: »

You aren't going to convince the hardliners on here, but you are continually making lots of sense. The 'employer who is always right' attitude is one of the main reasons why so many work environments are toxic and miserable. Often in smaller offices. The type who defend the employers who discriminate against women of a certain age, you know in case they might want kids in the future, anyone who discloses they have an illness at interview, and the type that believe employers are justified in not passing a staff member because of one sick day when under probation. Obviously, they are not so stupid to disclose this. The attitude of the employers are always right comes from a position of insecurity, and a lack of self-respect from the employee, but it causes huge damage. It gives employers licence to act accordingly. The best employers dont view their employees as mercenaries. Try to avoid working in those companies if at all possible.

Exactly...employers with the attitude that their staff are going to screw them over and who treat their employees with contempt end up getting the employees they deserve. If someone treats me like this, I will give them the absolute bare minimum. Someone said about a man in their work who was pulled up about tea breaks when he was working an hour every day for free...so many bosses can't see the wood for the trees and are just total jobsworths.

No idea why it's so hard to grasp the fact that treating your staff as human beings is far more likely to result in happy, productive and loyal employees and everybody wins.