Heart Rate Training - beginners guide

Murph_D

ctlsleh wrote: »

Is there a pinned post on HR training, I’m 52 and 34mins is the best I can do for 5K, running/walking and would like to get sub 30mins......my max heart rate should be 169, I tend to be in zone 4 and 5 for most of the 5k......
Sorry for a stupid question, I was hoping to find somewhere to start on HR training, I actually find the breathing is what’s really holding me back rather than legs, I also spin cycle so have some fitness.

Why not go back to the start of this thread and take it from there. Post back with specific questions. There is no ‘should be’ max Hr. The 220-age rule is useless. If you are breathing too hard on easy runs you are simply running too fast and won’t improve.

Best of luck!

Seve OB

ctlsleh wrote: »

Is there a pinned post on HR training, I’m 52 and 34mins is the best I can do for 5K, running/walking and would like to get sub 30mins......my max heart rate should be 169, I tend to be in zone 4 and 5 for most of the 5k......
Sorry for a stupid question, I was hoping to find somewhere to start on HR training, I actually find the breathing is what’s really holding me back rather than legs, I also spin cycle so have some fitness.

You sound exactly like me.
I’ve posted a thread, take a look.
I think you might find that your HR zones could be wrong

partyguinness

All my running is to HR. Had a VO2 max test done in a lab with a sports scientist and he then set all HR rates/zones which I manually fed into my Garmin. All runs planned with Training Peaks. Massive improvement over the past 6-9 months.

Eg. Was limited to 134bhp to begin wihth and was crawling along at 6:30 minute per km. Now that is down to 4:50 minute per km with the same HR.

skyblue46

partyguinness wrote: »

All my running is to HR. Had a VO2 max test done in a lab with a sports scientist and he then set all HR rates/zones which I manually fed into my Garmin. All runs planned with Training Peaks. Massive improvement over the past 6-9 months.

Eg. Was limited to 134bhp to begin wihth and was crawling along at 6:30 minute per km. Now that is down to 4:50 minute per km with the same HR.

I assume all these places are closed as non essential at the moment?

Murph_D

partyguinness wrote: »

All my running is to HR. Had a VO2 max test done in a lab with a sports scientist and he then set all HR rates/zones which I manually fed into my Garmin. All runs planned with Training Peaks. Massive improvement over the past 6-9 months.

Eg. Was limited to 134bhp to begin wihth and was crawling along at 6:30 minute per km. Now that is down to 4:50 minute per km with the same HR.

What percentage of HRR are you getting at that pace?

partyguinness

skyblue46 wrote: »

I assume all these places are closed as non essential at the moment?

I had it done last February 2020 before lockdown and then again in July when it was back open. The initial 12 week very steady aerobic running turned into nearly 20 weeks because of lockdowns.



But yeah I would have thought so...my guy is not due to open until some time in April (this is in England BTW)

Unknownability

skyblue46 wrote: »

I assume all these places are closed as non essential at the moment?

I emailed the person in UCD who performs these tests over a month ago and no reply.

keith_d99

Not sure how accurate this is ... but I did a field test ...

Ran 5k and pushed myself hard the last 500m on a hill.

My Max Heart rate (last 500m) was 197.

Is that completely inaccurate?!? (I have just turned 46)

keith_d99

keith_d99 wrote: »

Not sure how accurate this is ... but I did a field test ...

Ran 5k and pushed myself hard the last 500m on a hill.

My Max Heart rate (last 500m) was 197.

Is that completely inaccurate?!? (I have just turned 46)

Would be pretty high for your age tbh

Are you using a chest strap for HR measurement?

keith_d99

glasso wrote: »

Would be pretty high for your age tbh

Are you using a chest strap for HR measurement?

Apple Watch - going all out up a pretty steep hill and really pushing myself.

keith_d99

keith_d99 wrote: »

Apple Watch - going all out up a pretty steep hill and really pushing myself.

not sure what version of the apple watch you have as heart rate accuracy has most likely improved over the versions but could be worth investing in a chest strap heart rate monitor like this (a model that's reasonably priced but decent)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CooSpo-Bluetooth-Monitor-Waterproof-Compatible/dp/B07PNNMSGS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2PMJJAY3LC22P&dchild=1&keywords=coospo+heart+rate+monitor&qid=1617219515&s=sports&sprefix=coosp%2Csports%2C192&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFGVTZKQ0lZVkRRUU8mZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA2Mjk2NzUyMEZMOUhOSDNNVERLJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MTU3NTkyTFRQV0Y5NTVGOTVFJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

As a guideline a "reasonable" approximation of max HR is 211-(.64*age) - from Hunt Fitness Study on 3,320 healthy adults.

That would give you 184 for age 45

197 would be a bit of an outlier tbh

skyblue46

glasso wrote: »

As a guideline a "reasonable" approximation of max HR is 211-(.64*age) - from Hunt Fitness Study on 3,320 healthy adults.

That would give you 184 for age 45

197 would be a bit of an outlier tbh

You should talk to MurphD about that one :pac:

I'd be ignoring anything from a wrist monitor no matter the brand or version of the watch.

skyblue46

glasso wrote: »

As a guideline a "reasonable" approximation of max HR is 211-(.64*age) - from Hunt Fitness Study on 3,320 healthy adults.

That would give you 184 for age 45

197 would be a bit of an outlier tbh

You should talk to MurphD about that one :pac:

I'd be ignoring anything from a wrist monitor no matter the brand or version of the watch.

skyblue46

skyblue46 wrote: »

You should talk to MurphD about that one :pac:

I'd be ignoring anything from a wrist monitor no matter the brand or version of the watch.

the point was more to illustrate the likely inaccuracy of the watch optical reader and the 197 reading for the poster than anything else.

charlieIRL

keith_d99 wrote: »

Apple Watch - going all out up a pretty steep hill and really pushing myself.

I got a chest heart rate monitor recently and compared heart rate to my apple watch (Series 3) and most of the time the reading are the same but last night the watch was reading totally different to the HRM - off by 40bmp at one stage.

I'm trying to run in Zones 2/3 and adjusting my pace to suit when I run and the watch could read 170bpm at times whereas the HRM could be reading 130bpm.

I'm the same age and my max Heart Rate recored was 165bpm with the HRM

Seve OB

So who wants to explain this?
Garmin premium HR strap. Fenix 6pro.
Speed repeats workout. High HR is in the warm down phase where you can clearly see I dropped of the pace quite a lot.
I was fairly shattered after it, toughest workout I’ve done in a long time.
But surely it doesn’t make sense. Could it be possible strap dropped connection from the watch? I did put new battery in it recently and it is connecting

keith_d99

charlieIRL wrote: »

I'm the same age and my max Heart Rate recorded was 165bpm with the HRM

Thanks for your replies folks - very helpful!

Have since looked back over the last 12 months ... seeing max's around the 195 mark for each month.

Have put in 190 into my app for now (in the absence of a HR monitor).
Went for a Foundation Run (Zone 1 and 2) - and it felt fine.

If you are an Apple Watch user ... WorkOutdoors is an excellent app btw!
You can set Max HR and set your Zone percentages ... also alerts you when you cross zones. In fact you can customise pretty much everything.
Also has Strava integration

Ceepo

Seve OB wrote: »

So who wants to explain this?
Garmin premium HR strap. Fenix 6pro.
Speed repeats workout. High HR is in the warm down phase where you can clearly see I dropped of the pace quite a lot.
I was fairly shattered after it, toughest workout I’ve done in a long time.
But surely it doesn’t make sense. Could it be possible strap dropped connection from the watch? I did put new battery in it recently and it is connecting

Simple really.

Your HR monitor went off on one...

Its not beyond Garmin unfortunately.
Garmin do GPS very well, but not heart rate. While they have improved they're still known for glitches.

BeginnerRunner

Seve OB wrote: »

So who wants to explain this?
Garmin premium HR strap. Fenix 6pro.
Speed repeats workout. High HR is in the warm down phase where you can clearly see I dropped of the pace quite a lot.
I was fairly shattered after it, toughest workout I’ve done in a long time.
But surely it doesn’t make sense. Could it be possible strap dropped connection from the watch? I did put new battery in it recently and it is connecting

Did you lick the strap, spit on the strap, or run it under a tap before the run? Very important info being left out here.

keith_d99

keith_d99 wrote: »

Thanks for your replies folks - very helpful!

Have since looked back over the last 12 months ... seeing max's around the 195 mark for each month.

Have put in 190 into my app for now (in the absence of a HR monitor).
Went for a Foundation Run (Zone 1 and 2) - and it felt fine.

If you are an Apple Watch user ... WorkOutdoors is an excellent app btw!
You can set Max HR and set your Zone percentages ... also alerts you when you cross zones. In fact you can customise pretty much everything.
Also has Strava integration

yes but if the watch is inaccurate in general on heart rate when exercising you won't actually be getting the right info, even if you have corrected your max heart rate to some extent

keith_d99

glasso wrote: »

yes but if the watch is inaccurate in general on heart rate when exercising you won't actually be getting the right info, even if you have corrected your max heart rate to some extent

Yep have read that watches are fine for steady runs but not so great for interval runs for example.
Looking at the Polar H10 - pairs nicely with the watch too.

Jeez this HR training is getting expensive. Only bought a pair of Aftershockz last week so I could hear the prompts from my watch

ctlsleh

glasso wrote: »

yes but if the watch is inaccurate in general on heart rate when exercising you won't actually be getting the right info, even if you have corrected your max heart rate to some extent

I have an Apple Watch 6 and a polar OH1 and the Apple Watch is usually bang on, I do HIIT spinning and it always lines up with the polar

ctlsleh

ctlsleh wrote: »

I have an Apple Watch 6 and a polar OH1 and the Apple Watch is usually bang on, I do HIIT spinning and it always lines up with the polar

I did say that accuracy could depend on versions. OP didn't say what version he has.

it's not accurate in the case of the OP as having a max HR of 197 at 47 is extremely unlikely.

ctlsleh

glasso wrote: »

I did say that accuracy could depend on versions. OP didn't say what version he has.

it's not accurate in the case of the OP as having a max HR of 197 at 47 is extremely unlikely.

Having said that, im an ould lad at 52, so im maxing out around 168, but up to that its accurate.......

Ceepo

glasso wrote: »

I did say that accuracy could depend on versions. OP didn't say what version he has.

it's not accurate in the case of the OP as having a max HR of 197 at 47 is extremely unlikely.

Out of interest, what is the max hr ceiling that someone of that age would be in your opinion.?

First Up

Ceepo wrote:

Out of interest, what is the max hr ceiling that someone of that age would be in your opinion.?

The standard way to estimate is 220 minus your age.

Ceepo

First Up wrote: »

The standard way to estimate is 220 minus your age.

You are aware that, that is the most unreliable way determine max HR, right?

Ceepo

Ceepo wrote: »

Out of interest, what is the max hr ceiling that someone of that age would be in your opinion.?

there will always be criticisms of formulas (best to get a max test done if really serious about it) and there will always be outliers but I would say that something like the one that I posted above recently

211 - (.64 x Age)

From the Hunt Fitness study of over 3,000 healthy adults of varying ages

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22376273/

would give a "reasonable" approximation of the Max HR for an age

certainly better than the old 220 - Age formula.

First Up

Ceepo wrote:

You are aware that, that is the most unreliable way determine max HR, right?

It's a rule of thumb and enough for most training plans.