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Women Only Professorships

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    #392
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't...

    Well I do, thanks to quotas.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    but then I was raised around women who sought to be the best they could be. My mother was a principal, my aunt a head nurse, my other aunt director of a college department.

    You make it sound like those jobs were the most important thing to these women, completely forgetting that they already has the greatest job in the world - being a mother and raising a family. It is the most natural and most fulfilling job there is. Many many women who find themselves past their fertility window, sitting in an air conditioned office & working 60 hours a week regret it. It is no coincidence that the rise of third wave feminism has coincided with the decline in female happiness.

    Women in general are being led like sheep to believe that having a career is the be all and end all. Not it isn't, having a family is the greatest thing a woman can do for herself as well as society. It is quite frankly embarrassing to see women fall for this, hook line and sinker.

    Becoming a CEO or a professor requires working long hours during a time where fertility is dwindling (for women). It is no wonder we see less women in those positions. There are no barriers, the fact that there are women in these positions is proof of this. But it requires the sacrifice of one of the most natural, maternal of urges...


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    #393
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Well I do, thanks to quotas.



    You make it sound like those jobs were the most important thing to these women, completely forgetting that they already has the greatest job in the world - being a mother and raising a family. It is the most natural and most fulfilling job there is. Many many women who find themselves past their fertility window, sitting in an air conditioned office & working 60 hours a week regret it. It is no coincidence that the rise of third wave feminism has coincided with the decline in female happiness.

    Women in general are being led like sheep to believe that having a career is the be all and end all. Not it isn't, having a family is the greatest thing a woman can do for herself as well as society. It is quite frankly embarrassing to see women fall for this, hook line and sinker.

    Becoming a CEO or a professor requires working long hours during a time where fertility is dwindling (for women). It is no wonder we see less women in those positions. There are no barriers, the fact that there are women in these positions is proof of this. But it requires the sacrifice of one of the most natural, maternal of urges...

    Anyone who doubts that sexism is still a thing only has to read this patronising, paternalistic, deluded rubbish.

    Where is this decline in female happiness? It's been well documented that single women are generally far happier than married women.

    Your nonsense post also conveniently glosses over the fact that two incomes are required these days to buy a house, and the cultural shift which means it's not acceptable for women to be expect to be paid for, e.g. on dates.

    I wonder how many men who bleat this sort of nonsense would be happy to put their hand in their pocket for every single date (because women shouldn't have a career or their own funds). Something tells me that if you went on a date with a woman who told you she didn't work and expected to be paid for, you'd be on Boards calling her a few choice names.

    Funny how so many men think that for women, a 'career' is some sort of antagonistic choice or 'status symbol' rather than, you know, a way to keep a roof over your head and buy food.

    How can women ever feel they belong in tech or any high status position when surrounded by dinosaurs like you?


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    #394
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Anyone who doubts that sexism is still a thing only has to read this patronising, paternalistic, deluded rubbish.

    Where is this decline in female happiness? It's been well documented that single women are generally far happier than married women.

    Your nonsense post also conveniently glosses over the fact that two incomes are required these days to buy a house, and the cultural shift which means it's not acceptable for women to be expect to be paid for, e.g. on dates.

    I wonder how many men who bleat this sort of nonsense would be happy to put their hand in their pocket for every single date (because women shouldn't have a career or their own funds). Something tells me that if you went on a date with a woman who told you she didn't work and expected to be paid for, you'd be on Boards calling her a few choice names.

    Funny how so many men think that for women, a 'career' is some sort of antagonistic choice or 'status symbol' rather than, you know, a way to keep a roof over your head and buy food.

    How can women ever feel they belong in tech or any high status position when surrounded by dinosaurs like you?


    I'm female


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    #395
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    I'm female

    Oh God, that's even worse.

    What a disgrace.

    I hope you're not a real person.


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    #396
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    If you ever needed an example for the old adage "Two wrongs don't make a right." you got it.


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    #397
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Where is this decline in female happiness?


    From:



    https://www.nber.org/papers/w14969.pdf

    "By many objective measures the lives of women in the United States have improved over the past 35 years, yet we show that measures of subjective well-being indicate that women's happiness has declined both absolutely and relative to men. The paradox of women's declining relative well-being is found across various datasets, measures of subjective well-being, and is pervasive across demographic groups and industrialized countries. Relative declines in female happiness have eroded a gender gap in happiness in which women in the 1970s typically reported higher subjective well-being than did men. These declines have continued and a new gender gap is emerging -- one with higher subjective well-being for men. "

    It blatantly obvious that people are happier with family's rather than careers (generally speaking). No amount of social engineering can beat mother nature.


    Regarding two incomes to purchase a house. Yes of course that is a problem in the modern day but one partner can do the 60+ hour career whilst the other can work a less intense job whilst raising a family (which is an honorable career in itself).


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    #398
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    You make it sound like those jobs were the most important thing to these women, completely forgetting that they already has the greatest job in the world - being a mother and raising a family. It is the most natural and most fulfilling job there is. Many many women who find themselves past their fertility window, sitting in an air conditioned office & working 60 hours a week regret it. It is no coincidence that the rise of third wave feminism has coincided with the decline in female happiness.

    This is for every woman to decide, isn't it.
    But are you talking about single mothers - cause if you're not, I think you are wrong with everything else above.
    Actually as mother myself I can say calling motherhood or fatherhood a job is very shallow.
    So the most successful women from my point of view are the ones having the career while raising the family together with their partner. While I can imagine not everyone is lucky to meet the one in their most fertile years - but one thing I know is that any career can be planned.

    Also, I am sure you know about this report about stay at home moms - appears employed moms handle it better - https://news.gallup.com/poll/154685/stay-home-moms-report-depression-sadness-anger.aspx


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    #399
    waynerooney
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭waynerooney


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Anyone who believes that a department is 90% men because the women aren't good enough to get the jobs is sexist or delusional.

    Agreed. There are more men because more men apply.


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    #400
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    mvl wrote: »
    This is for every woman to decide, isn't it.

    Absolutely, women don't need to be dictated to. We are as strong as men arnt we? So we can make up our own minds as to what we want to do with our lives. I dont need quotas thanks.


    Quotas remind me of that line in Titanic, "Women and children first!". Its nauseating.

    mvl wrote: »
    But are you talking about single mothers - cause if you're not, I think you are wrong with everything else above.

    I'm not sure what you mean exactly? I think single mothers are a problem that is encouraged by welfare. They are a net drain on resources (in general). How can one support a family and work at the same time? It is very difficult to do properly, if not impossible.
    mvl wrote: »
    Actually as mother myself I can say calling motherhood or fatherhood a job is very shallow.

    Agree. Poor choice of words on my part. I would consider parenthood to be above and beyond a "job", it is more than that but I find it strange when feminists try to push the narrative of careers being a better life choice.


    If you had to, which would you choose, your career or your kids?

    mvl wrote: »
    So the most successful women from my point of view are the ones having the career while raising the family together with their partner. While I can imagine not everyone is lucky to meet the one in their most fertile years - but one thing I know is that any career can be planned.

    I would say that the best time for a woman to have a career is when her children enter their teenage years, because the children are more able to look after themselves and the mother is less bound by her maternal instincts.
    mvl wrote: »
    Also, I am sure you know about this report about stay at home moms - appears employed moms handle it better - https://news.gallup.com/poll/154685/stay-home-moms-report-depression-sadness-anger.aspx

    I'll have a proper look later but no doubt that 2012 Gallup study looked for the answers they wanted rather than real data. What do you think of my peer reviewed & recent scientific study that contradicts the Gallop one? Do you think women are happier in work or at home raising their family?


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    #401
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    You make it sound like those jobs were the most important thing to these women, completely forgetting that they already has the greatest job in the world - being a mother and raising a family.

    :rolleyes:

    I'm rolling my eyes because, seriously, that wasn't relevant to the quote I posted my points to... It's too bloody obvious anyway.... although you're making the assumption that my aunts had children.
    It is the most natural and most fulfilling job there is. Many many women who find themselves past their fertility window, sitting in an air conditioned office & working 60 hours a week regret it. It is no coincidence that the rise of third wave feminism has coincided with the decline in female happiness.

    Considering how often I post to these kinds of threads, does that really need to be said as a response to my post? Like, I'm suggesting otherwise?
    Women in general are being led like sheep to believe that having a career is the be all and end all. Not it isn't, having a family is the greatest thing a woman can do for herself as well as society. It is quite frankly embarrassing to see women fall for this, hook line and sinker.

    Women can, actually, have both. There just needs to be a realistic appraisal of the career in question, the costs/sacrifices needed to achieve whatever level of authority they wish, and the understanding that such costs are not gender discrimination. They're simply a fact of life. Time is limited, and people must choose where to invest it. A supportive husband/wife is also needed...
    Becoming a CEO or a professor requires working long hours during a time where fertility is dwindling (for women). It is no wonder we see less women in those positions. There are no barriers, the fact that there are women in these positions is proof of this. But it requires the sacrifice of one of the most natural, maternal of urges...

    Becoming a CEO does, becoming a professor doesn't. I know many female professors who are fully able to balance being both, a mother and professor, while also publishing their papers... but then they have husbands who are also professors, or teachers in schools nearby to them.

    We don't/didn't see women in these positions, because there were barriers.. Both the old boy club, and the social perception of what jobs women should aim themselves for. That's why we tended to see more women enter teaching at primary level or secondary levels than at university level. The perception that there were more suitable positions, and that they would face more resistance going for university positions.

    The fact that those barriers have been disappearing quickly in my lifetime, doesn't change the perception that such barriers exist(ed). Universities tend to be bastions of traditional thinking... at least, they were until the US went nuts.


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    #402
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    There are plenty of initiatives globally for more men to consider primary education, actually.

    The thing is that most men aren't clamouring to be able to do the traditionally 'female' jobs like cleaning, childminding, nursing, etc., you know the ones which are generally horrible jobs with awful pay. Funny that.

    Irony overload. Tell me, what's the ratio of men to women in the army, guards, fire brigade etc.


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    #403
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    There are plenty of initiatives globally for more men to consider primary education, actually.

    The thing is that most men aren't clamouring to be able to do the traditionally 'female' jobs like cleaning, childminding, nursing, etc., you know the ones which are generally horrible jobs with awful pay. Funny that.

    I love how in the scale of job 'awfulness' caring for children is one of the worst ones you think women are dominantly subjected to, along with nursing....

    are minding children and nursing the worst jobs any person could do, if not, who usually does the worst jobs you can think of.....


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    #404
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Anyone who doubts that sexism is still a thing only has to read this patronising, paternalistic, deluded rubbish.

    Oddly enough, some of your earlier posts were rather good examples of sexism towards males... Although that's supposedly okay since you're female. :rolleyes:
    Where is this decline in female happiness? It's been well documented that single women are generally far happier than married women.

    And yet, they drop their careers at 30 and rush to start a family? Just look at the research done on solicitors in the US & Canada.

    In most professions of high salary amounts (which subsequently have long work hours and major stress) women do very well until they reach their 30's and then start looking for a mate to start a family with. Those that don't, often find themselves having problems with the idea of "dating down", in that they don't want to be with anyone with a lower income or lifestyle than them... there also tends to be more breakups/divorces because of the stresses of needing to put a career ahead of a partner. Which accounts for some of the reasons that professionals in the US are reporting that they're unhappy with their lives, in spite of career success.
    Your nonsense post also conveniently glosses over the fact that two incomes are required these days to buy a house, and the cultural shift which means it's not acceptable for women to be expect to be paid for, e.g. on dates.

    Odd... Most women I encounter still expect the guy to pay for dates.. and during the early stages of a relationship.

    As for the income needed to buy a house, that entirely depends on whether they're having a family. A single person on a professional salary can still buy a decent small house or apartment.. I have a three bedroom townhouse which I bought at the ripe old age of 27 for 315k euro (nasty bloody mortgage, but still), and I'm single. No double income needed for that, although i didn't expect to live in a city center or the more exclusive neighborhoods. I've gone to house warmings recently for friends who have bought themselves nice little places, and they're single (Male and females)

    But sure, if they're a single female in a low paid job and few career prospects for advancement, then they're likely to face problems... but you know what? They could shift their careers to something that pays a lot more. (and speaking as someone who still pays for most dates, it's not so costly as to be a major drain on resources.. if it is, then obviously she's the wrong person for me.)
    I wonder how many men who bleat this sort of nonsense would be happy to put their hand in their pocket for every single date (because women shouldn't have a career or their own funds). Something tells me that if you went on a date with a woman who told you she didn't work and expected to be paid for, you'd be on Boards calling her a few choice names.

    Why? That's who she chooses to be.. and if he accepts her lifestyle, then he accepts paying for her. You make it sound like this is something new. It's not. There's plenty of women who are looking for a guy to support them, and after marriage, become a stay at home wife. Admittedly, these women trade on their appearance... but, it's not an uncommon situation, and the fact that you don't know it, says a lot about your understanding of what men experience.. normally.
    Funny how so many men think that for women, a 'career' is some sort of antagonistic choice or 'status symbol' rather than, you know, a way to keep a roof over your head and buy food.

    A job is to keep a roof over your head and buy food. A career is to satisfy your wants, and evolve your needs. You make it sound like it's somehow different for males. It's not.
    How can women ever feel they belong in tech or any high status position when surrounded by dinosaurs like you?

    By having the self-confidence not to care about them... but they won't get that self-confidence from being gifted everything.. Self-confidence comes from overcoming the obstacles that life puts in your way... Females already have equality with males... So, stop looking for an "out".


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    #405
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,578 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »

    But thanks for unmasking yourself as a bigot. Feel free to PM me the name of this company so I make sure to avoid you and let others know what sort of person you are. I'm sure you'll have no problem standing by your views.
    lainey_d_123 wrote: »

    How can women ever feel they belong in tech or any high status position when surrounded by dinosaurs like you?
    lainey_d_123 wrote: »

    I hope you're not a real person.
    Attack the post, not the poster


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    #406
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    I'm female


    You, last week:

    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Completely agree with this. I am male but I find diversity targets to be patronizing towards those whom they supposedly help. If I were a woman, I would be offended by the likes of this behavior.


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    #407
    CosmicFool
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    osarusan wrote: »
    You, last week:

    :rolleyes:


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    #408
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    osarusan wrote: »
    You, last week:

    Could Kidchameleon be making the subtle point that contemporary gender fluidity makes these gender specific professorships illogical......?


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    #409
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Could Kidchameleon be making the subtle point that contemporary gender fluidity makes these gender specific professorships illogical......?

    In a word
    No.


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    #410
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Beasty wrote: »
    Attack the post, not the poster

    Well, it's now been confirmed that they are indeed a man (as stated by them in a previous post and as was very obvious) but point taken.


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    #411
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    osarusan wrote: »
    You, last week:

    Hah, good catch. I was also sure I'd seen that poster say they were male.

    Also had a hard time believing that recent post could have been written by a woman.


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    #412
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Hah, good catch. I was also sure I'd seen that poster say they were male.

    Also had a hard time believing that recent post could have been written by a woman.

    Why? Men and women are the same sure


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    #413
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Im female, surley you should all be refering to me by my chosen pronoun?


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    #414
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Hah, good catch. I was also sure I'd seen that poster say they were male.

    Also had a hard time believing that recent post could have been written by a woman.

    Thats about the most sexist thing Ive read on this thread. Can women not have opinions like that? Why try to impose your world view on them?


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    #415
    dvdman1
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dvdman1


    Why dont they create women only bin truck roles?
    Or male only primary school teachers?

    Artificially getting stats up.. does nothing but cause new problems


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    #416
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Perhaps, I've become a jaded old cynical man, but I don't tend to attribute any particular gender to a poster unless they've maintained such an identity for a rather long posting history. The internet is full of people who assume alternative personalities or modes of behavior they wouldn't apply in the real world.

    I'd view lainey_d_123 as a feminist based on the manner of the posts, but... I've no idea whether they're male or female... I'll accept the claim of being male or female because it doesn't matter in the slightest which one they are. Both genders have the right to speak their opinions, and it is the content of the posts that will be judged... Claiming to be female or male doesn't make your opinion any more real or valid.


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    #417
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Hah, good catch. I was also sure I'd seen that poster say they were male.

    Also had a hard time believing that recent post could have been written by a woman.

    Why?


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    #418
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    But there was something else I wanted to bring up, as we talk here about the stay at home versus employed mom "effect".

    Found this research using surveys conducted over 10 years, looking at the the effect of having a working mom (participants: 100k men/women across 29 countries). Not only suggestion is that children are as happy independently if the mother stayed at home or was working, but there will be additional positives for having a working mother seen in adulthood: adults raised by employed mothers hold more egalitarian gender attitudes.
    Quote from <<Learning from Mum: Cross National Evidence Linking Maternal Employment and Adult Children's Outcomes>>:
    " Daughters raised by employed mothers benefit in the employment realm, while sons raised by employed mothers spend more time engaged in family care. These beneficial outcomes are due at least in part to employed mothers’ conveyance of egalitarian gender attitudes and life skills for managing employment and domestic responsibilities simultaneously."
    So ... don't want to think about how many negative comments on these type of threads may have been caused by the humble stay at home mother ...
    Wombatman wrote: »
    Could Kidchameleon be making the subtle point that contemporary gender fluidity makes these gender specific professorships illogical......?
    Thought it was rather intentional ...trolling.


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    #419
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Well, it's now been confirmed that they are indeed a man (as stated by them in a previous post and as was very obvious) but point taken.

    Im a woman


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    #420
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,519 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Mod: Move on, folks. Back on topic please.


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    #421
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,578 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    mvl wrote: »
    Thought it was rather intentional ...trolling.
    If you have a problem with a post or poster report it and leave the modding to the mods


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