When's calving starting 2020

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

Wait til you see the end and top on him in a few weeks, great muscle to them.

This is him now at 2 weeks (Gamin - ZGM bull calf). 5 Star for both Terminal and Maternal. For €10 a straw, it's great value compared what some of the AI companies are asking for unproven bulls.

Gamin Calf.jpg

Durrus Boy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

This is him now at 2 weeks (Gamin - ZGM bull calf). 5 Star for both Terminal and Maternal. For €10 a straw, it's great value compared what some of the AI companies are asking for unproven bulls.

Gamin Calf.jpg

ZGM is the best and most consistent LM bull commercially available in AI in my opinion. Have had nearly over 50 now in past 3 years and none of them have disappointed

tanko

Yeah, he's a serious bull and very easy calved on cows.
Have you used him on heifers?

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

Yeah, he's a serious bull and very easy calved on cows.
Have you used him on heifers?

Ya I used him on a XGL heifer a week ago. Said I'd chance him on her as she's fairly square at the hips.

High bike

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya I used him on a XGL heifer a week ago. Said I'd chance him on her as she's fairly square at the hips.

thats a nice calf Patsy, what age will that heifer be calving at?

patsy_mccabe

High bike wrote: »

thats a nice calf Patsy, what age will that heifer be calving at?

30 months. She should be grand by then.

High bike

Was talking to a man that keeps a good few pure bred limos and he was saying that they should be well up to calving at 27 or 28 mts to an easyish calving bull

patsy_mccabe

High bike wrote: »

Was talking to a man that keeps a good few pure bred limos and he was saying that they should be well up to calving at 27 or 28 mts to an easyish calving bull

A lot of it with me, is to do with housing, or lack of it. Prefer to calf them as close as possible to grass.

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

A lot of it with me, is to do with housing, or lack of it. Prefer to calf them as close as possible to grass.

Tis easier keep a calf from september to april rather than a bull from april till the following year if ya get me, imo

patsy_mccabe

charolais0153 wrote: »

Tis easier keep a calf from september to april rather than a bull from april till the following year if ya get me, imo

True. Everyone wants to buy their breeding bull in April/May.

whelan2

How are breeding bull sales going this year?

squinn2912

whelan2 wrote: »

How are breeding bull sales going this year?

My father was saying he read in FJ that there’s only a 50% clearance rate at breeding sales

jimini0

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Tiniest calf I've ever seen! Though to be fair the cow was so light I was wondering if she was incalf at all a fortnight ago.

https://twitter.com/LadyHaywire/status/1252292946361188353

Well how is the little calf getting on?

Lady Haywire

jimini0 wrote: »

Well how is the little calf getting on?

Thriving! Can still walk under the cow though :pac:

Lady Haywire

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Thriving! Can still walk under the cow though :pac:

I don't really need to point her out but she's the small one from halfway on

High bike

She’ll be as big as the rest of em in 6 mts time

Parishlad

Last lady calved today. I wasn’t around myself so my 15 year old nephew was in charge. He did a great job. She was taking a bit too long so he called for help and they pulled the calf. She might well have calved on her own but he wasn’t taking any chances.
So that’s 2020 done. 20 cows calved and 21 calves live on the ground. If I can keep them alive for the next 18 months I’ll be happy.

squinn2912

Parishlad wrote: »

Last lady calved today. I wasn’t around myself so my 15 year old nephew was in charge. He did a great job. She was taking a bit too long so he called for help and they pulled the calf. She might well have calved on her own but he wasn’t taking any chances.
So that’s 2020 done. 20 cows calved and 21 calves live on the ground. If I can keep them alive for the next 18 months I’ll be happy.

That’s great going you had a successful year!! Young lad played a blinder you’ll have to throw him a score for that

Parishlad

squinn2912 wrote: »

That’s great going you had a successful year!! Young lad played a blinder you’ll have to throw him a score for that

I’ve had a good year alright. Been a few touch and go cases but they are all still there so far. My nephew is a great lad. He loves the farming and is very good with the cattle. He’s my right hand man to be honest. Pretty much always with me and I’d be lost without him. I helped him buy a heifer a couple of years ago and she had her first calf in Feb.

ABitofsense

Finally finished for this year. Fine big LM Knell bull of a 5 yr old AAx cow. No bother to her. Calved in a couple of minutes.

Finally numbers this year was 7 heifers & 13 bulls (One loss and one set of twins), so 19 on the ground. Well impressed with bull Knell some nice calves of him and easy calved. ZAGs have being quiet small and less shapely in comparison. Lodge Hamlet is a great bull, easy calved and a 2 month old bull calf off my smallest cow is a tank compared to a lot of the rest.

So back to staring at the cows in the field wondering if they are bulling if a another cow looks at them funny!

High bike

ABitofsense wrote: »

Finally finished for this year. Fine big LM Knell bull of a 5 yr old AAx cow. No bother to her. Calved in a couple of minutes.

Finally numbers this year was 7 heifers & 13 bulls (One loss and one set of twins), so 19 on the ground. Well impressed with bull Knell some nice calves of him and easy calved. ZAGs have being quiet small and less shapely in comparison. Lodge Hamlet is a great bull, easy calved and a 2 month old bull calf off my smallest cow is a tank compared to a

So back to staring at the cows in the field wondering if they are bulling if a another cow looks at them funny!

how many days did she carry to knell?

ABitofsense

286 days.

Timmaay

Another one calved today, 2 left. Would be nice if I can avoid the shame of June calvers, but I'd say it will be another week ha. Some year I'll learn, but for now as I'm still going up in numbers them late calvers will stay I guess ha.

High bike

Had a first time calver calve here yesterday evening.The blister went at 5 o’clock and left her for 2 hrs but made no attempt to calve herself,just standing by the ditch and no pushing.Next thing she goes off grazing so thought sh1 t calf coming backwards.Put her in and handled her everything seemed perfect but still no attempt to calve herself.Stuck the jack on her and brought a smasher of a Knell heifer,just in time I’d say with the amount of crap that came out of her lungs.Was she just lazy or just didn’t know what was happening

Sugarbowl

Good to hear you have it alive. I lost one to a heifer this year. The same thing with the knuckles out but no pushing. Calf was dead when we got to it. Said it to the vet recently and he said how heifers need plenty time to calve anyway so could have been dead already. On a side note I need to get some knell straws. Hearing great things about him!

High bike

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Good to hear you have it alive. I lost one to a heifer this year. The same thing with the knuckles out but no pushing. Calf was dead when we got to it. Said it to the vet recently and he said how heifers need plenty time to calve anyway so could have been dead already. On a side note I need to get some knell straws. Hearing great things about him!

yeah people seem to be happy with him generally,I’d say my one would have calved away herself if she put a bit of effort into it.290 days and the calf wasn’t huge but nice quality,I’ll definately be using him again

patsy_mccabe

Had a 2 year old heifer calf here this morning some time. A nice handy ZAG heifer calf. Bit of a surprise as she was only half bagged up.
I never checked her last night as I was helping a neighbour put in some cattle that broke out. Typical, it must be the only night I didn't check them. Got away with it anyway. Great comfort in using easy calving bulls on heifers.

squinn2912

Last oul stragler calved herself yesterday. Losses for the season are at 7 calves and 2 cows with 28 calves on the ground. All losses in first few weeks while the last four (at least) calved themselves with no fuss at all. Brings me to wonder if you’d be better letting them go on to April every year... A bad year with a terrible start so at least things lifted up a bit. Bulling heifers are at least 20 kgs heavier at bulling so the mistakes are learning experiences

jimini0

squinn2912 wrote: »

Last oul stragler calved herself yesterday. Losses for the season are at 7 calves and 2 cows with 28 calves on the ground. All losses in first few weeks while the last four (at least) calved themselves with no fuss at all. Brings me to wonder if you’d be better letting them go on to April every year... A bad year with a terrible start so at least things lifted up a bit. Bulling heifers are at least 20 kgs heavier at bulling so the mistakes are learning experiences

Without having to read back tru your posts. Can you give us a breakdown of your losses? Age of heifer or cow. Bull used. It might be a help to understand where things went wrong.
I know its not nice to lose an animal.

squinn2912

jimini0 wrote: »

Without having to read back tru your posts. Can you give us a breakdown of your losses? Age of heifer or cow. Bull used. It might be a help to understand where things went wrong.
I know its not nice to lose an animal.

Not a bother pal. Cows are both mysteries but vet looked into it and is happy there’s nothing to worry about. Really bad luck. With the calves one was a twin, another calved dead coming back ways and another a weak oul thing from the word go but surprised she croked. After that the other 4 were heifers that didn’t kick on and grow enough after being bulled. They were around 400 kgs at the time and it’s been ok every other year. They would have been 550ish calving which should still be enough but sadly not this time. In addition to that we ended up with 6 sections. That’s out of just 35 spring calvers but I’m relieved enough to have 28 live calves after that start. Major point for moving on is to make sure to wait until heifers are ready for bulling and not to chase dates. There’s 10 first calving heifers coming from August on and they’re mostly making enough progress to be confident they’ll be framey enough at least.

Sugarbowl

What kind of bull did you use on those heifers? Were they all born dead?
Sorry to hear your misfortune but good to learn from.

jimini0

squinn2912 wrote: »

Not a bother pal. Cows are both mysteries but vet looked into it and is happy there’s nothing to worry about. Really bad luck. With the calves one was a twin, another calved dead coming back ways and another a weak oul thing from the word go but surprised she croked. After that the other 4 were heifers that didn’t kick on and grow enough after being bulled. They were around 400 kgs at the time and it’s been ok every other year. They would have been 550ish calving which should still be enough but sadly not this time. In addition to that we ended up with 6 sections. That’s out of just 35 spring calvers but I’m relieved enough to have 28 live calves after that start. Major point for moving on is to make sure to wait until heifers are ready for bulling and not to chase dates. There’s 10 first calving heifers coming from August on and they’re mostly making enough progress to be confident they’ll be framey enough at least.

Thats just unfortunate. Do you think the wrong choice of bull used was an issue? Also I think this crap about a heifer calving at 2 is stupid. Personally I think bull her at 2 years old but each to their own

squinn2912

Sugarbowl wrote: »

What kind of bull did you use on those heifers? Were they all born dead?
Sorry to hear your misfortune but good to learn from.

Thank you. Never had as bad a year we’d have losses like anyone but this was very bad. What can you do only learn and adapt some things. I thought there’d be no problem bulling them from 380 kgs on. Once they were at that I kinda took my eye off them a bit. But we used a variety of bulls. 2 sections with Angus bull Picador, 2 with fifty cent sim bull, 1 with sh bull Matrix nothing there that would scare you much but they didn’t open up at all. Our own Lim bull bred from Haltcliffe Dancer and Millbrook Tanko = 1 section on a cow, calf backways and any of those heifers that calved to him calved unaided. Said it to AI man and he didn’t offer much thought on it. Not really his fault as such but I’m not convinced he’s part of the solution either. Maybe I’m a bit harsh I did get him again for 5 of the current heifers and then bought a wee Sim bull to continue with

squinn2912

jimini0 wrote: »

Thats just unfortunate. Do you think the wrong choice of bull used was an issue? Also I think this crap about a heifer calving at 2 is stupid. Personally I think bull her at 2 years old but each to their own

Yea mate there was bad luck were doing it a long time and have done it well more often than not but there were management mistakes too that we have to accept. I like a girl to be 27 months at least. We calve spring and autumn so replacements for one can go into the other and it gives them that bit longer. Early calving cows’ heifers we try to select if we’re going spring to spring if you get what I mean.

Anto_Meath

jimini0 wrote: »

Thats just unfortunate. Do you think the wrong choice of bull used was an issue? Also I think this crap about a heifer calving at 2 is stupid. Personally I think bull her at 2 years old but each to their own

I would tend to agree with you, it really depends on the size of the heifer. But calving them at 2 year old can be trouble. 30 months is ideal if you can manage it. If going for 2 year olds then I give them an AA handy little calf out of a lm heifer will grade an R and with bonus it can give a good return.

jimini0

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea mate there was bad luck were doing it a long time and have done it well more often than not but there were management mistakes too that we have to accept. I like a girl to be 27 months at least. We calve spring and autumn so replacements for one can go into the other and it gives them that bit longer. Early calving cows’ heifers we try to select if we’re going spring to spring if you get what I mean.

Bad luck but if it was easy everybody would be at it.

jimini0

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I would tend to agree with you, it really depends on the size of the heifer. But calving them at 2 year old can be trouble. 30 months is ideal if you can manage it. If going for 2 year olds then I give them an AA handy little calf out of a lm heifer will grade an R and with bonus it can give a good return.

Better to have a live calf than trouble calving or worse.
Now i only have a few cows but have a lovely heifer due in August. She will be 34 months old calving. Its one I bred myself so I didn't want to rush her. She repeated on first service at 22 months old which I was kinda happy about. I just thought she was a bit young so I left her another couple of months. Had a farmer up the road admiring her last week told me if I was ever selling to give him first shout. Which I thought was a nice compliment.

Who2

jimini0 wrote: »

Thats just unfortunate. Do you think the wrong choice of bull used was an issue? Also I think this crap about a heifer calving at 2 is stupid. Personally I think bull her at 2 years old but each to their own

Gone away from two year old calving here. 2.5 minimum. A decent frame of a cow is needed, both as a cull and to able to put any bull on them comfortably.
In saying that I’ve two returns here a bolide heifer that calves down a good limo bull on her own at 18 months, she’s around 500kg and I’ve a 17 month limo springing to calve in the next day or two, I’m hoping it’s the limousine but not sure my ch bull wrecked a lot of good cows on me this year.

Sugarbowl

Have people successfully calved suckler heifers at 24-26 months? I was hoping to start calving them down earlier but it seems the general consensus is to leave them longer. I will have heifers calving down at 3 years next spring and it seems such a long haul to get them to this stage. Looking at them now they look like they could have reared a calf fine.

Who2

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Have people successfully calved suckler heifers at 24-26 months? I was hoping to start calving them down earlier but it seems the general consensus is to leave them longer. I will have heifers calving down at 3 years next spring and it seems such a long haul to get them to this stage. Looking at them now they look like they could have reared a calf fine.

I’ve calved a lot at two year old, some will go grand others will go on to be reasonable cows but there’s always a few which stay as runts. I find if they go wrong you have nothing to sell and there will always be some that will. I’ve two really good 16 month old heifers is usually put in calf they would be 460-70 kg,, I’m going to keep them until next year now, regardless what others like I like a decent sized cow.

Hard Knocks

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Have people successfully calved suckler heifers at 24-26 months? I was hoping to start calving them down earlier but it seems the general consensus is to leave them longer. I will have heifers calving down at 3 years next spring and it seems such a long haul to get them to this stage. Looking at them now they look like they could have reared a calf fine.

Have done, some were perfect fits others were still growing and the 1st year took allot out of them
There is no right or wrong
Look after the cow and she’ll look after you

High bike

Well grown heifers around 420 kgs should be well up to calving at 24/25 mts if they get the right bull and shouldn’t stop them developing after from my experience.I don’t see the sense in keep them for another 12 mts with no return.

Limestone Cowboy

squinn2912 wrote: »

Last oul stragler calved herself yesterday. Losses for the season are at 7 calves and 2 cows with 28 calves on the ground. All losses in first few weeks while the last four (at least) calved themselves with no fuss at all. Brings me to wonder if you’d be better letting them go on to April every year... A bad year with a terrible start so at least things lifted up a bit. Bulling heifers are at least 20 kgs heavier at bulling so the mistakes are learning experiences

7 calves and 2 cows here as well and 5 sections, should have been 6 but couldn't get a vet Sunday and lost the calf, cow was wobbly but up grazing after it. Was working today and looked at her when I got home and she had fell and broken a back leg, had to call vets to put her down. Gone to the stage now I'm afraid what I'll find when I go herding. I'm fair mad at our vets over it, they had 1 vet on call between 2 practices and she is based an hour away and was on the way out to a section when I rang, they are far from the cheapest but I'd forgive them for that if the service was good. It a ridiculous area to expect 1 vet to cover. I let them have a piece of my mind anyway for all the good it did me.

patsy_mccabe

Nobody has mentioned the makeup of the hips on the heifers when calving down at 24 months. By far the most important thing. Big open hips and they will calf anything. Go with a proven easy calving AI bull and most should calf away on their own.

tanko

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Have people successfully calved suckler heifers at 24-26 months? I was hoping to start calving them down earlier but it seems the general consensus is to leave them longer. I will have heifers calving down at 3 years next spring and it seems such a long haul to get them to this stage. Looking at them now they look like they could have reared a calf fine.

I've calved heifers at 24-26 months, when it works it's great, when it doesn't you just end up with a runt of a cow that doesn't last around the place.
30-32 months is probably the sweet spot but that that's no good if you want to have a compact calving Spring herd.
When some heifers go in calf it's like a switch trips in their brain and they stop growing so they wouldn't look like they could have reared a fine calf if they had calved a year earlier, they might have been a lot smaller.

Albert Johnson

High bike wrote: »

Well grown heifers around 420 kgs should be well up to calving at 24/25 mts if they get the right bull and shouldn’t stop them developing after from my experience.I don’t see the sense in keep them for another 12 mts with no return.

+1 on this, I find that the likes of SIM or CH type heifer's tend to grow into tanks if left until 2 year olds before bulling. I like a cow with an average live weight of 650-700kg and once there 450kg and not over done at bulling there shouldn't be any problems imo. A lot of the older lads locally wouldn't hear of bulling anything under a 2 year old but a lot of there heifers wouldn't be any heavier at bulling despite being the best part of 12 months older.

If a good heifer out of an average sized milky cow isn't capable of hitting the most part of 450kg at 16-17 months then I'd be slow enough to bull her at all tbh. A man locally used to buy very middling quality coloured store heifer's at 30 months or older and bull them. By the time they started to spring they looked reasonable enough but they'd be coming 4 year's old or more and age had covered up some of there faults. Even the worst dairy bred bullock will flesh up if kept long enough but it's the time and expense involved that's the real killer.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

+1 on this, I find that the likes of SIM or CH type heifer's tend to grow into tanks if left until 2 year olds before bulling. I like a cow with an average live weight of 650-700kg and once there 450kg and not over done at bulling there shouldn't be any problems imo. A lot of the older lads locally wouldn't hear of bulling anything under a 2 year old but a lot of there heifers wouldn't be any heavier at bulling despite being the best part of 12 months older.

If a good heifer out of an average sized milky cow isn't capable of hitting the most part of 450kg at 16-17 months then I'd be slow enough to bull her at all tbh. A man locally used to buy very middling quality coloured store heifer's at 30 months or older and bull them. By the time they started to spring they looked reasonable enough but they'd be coming 4 year's old or more and age had covered up some of there faults. Even the worst dairy bred bullock will flesh up if kept long enough but it's the time and expense involved that's the real killer.

I like your points. My father and I argued a bit over this and he maintained if she’s the right one she’ll have the weight. Bit of truth in that.
Saw your point in real life at some special sales. Springers to calve their first calf at 40 plus months. My thought was where the fuk has she been hiding for all that time. Making silly money too. Another sale had 30-36 month old heifers not bulled yet. I think that’s a waste of time.

Limestone Cowboy

Second last one calved just there now. The other one should go in the next day or two aswell. Can't wait to be finished with them for the year.

Limestone Cowboy

Last one calved this morning by herself, nice little roan lim heifer.

Limestone Cowboy

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Last one calved this morning by herself, nice little roan lim heifer.

Here she is.