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An Taoiseach Michael Martin

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    #122
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    Martin has blisters on his arse from being on the fence for so long


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    #123
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Be nice to see one of the big two have a stance.

    Which big two? FF and FG?

    FG clearly have a stance - they are commemorating people who died in the RIC and DMP.

    This works for them because it makes SF/Aontú froth at the mouth and it puts FF on the spot to either side with SF (who seem to be toxic again), join a blueshirt celebration annoying their traditional core voter, or look weak by doing neither.

    Seems Martin has picked looking weak.


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    #124
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Which big two? FF and FG?

    FG clearly have a stance - they are commemorating people who died in the RIC and DMP.

    This works for them because it makes SF/Aontú froth at the mouth and it puts FF on the spot to either side with SF (who seem to be toxic again), join a blueshirt celebration annoying their traditional core voter, or look weak by doing neither.

    Seems Martin has picked looking weak.

    Dublin CC voted against attending this by 38 - 10 last night. There are 8 SF councilors and no Aontu members on Dublin CC.


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    #125
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Which big two? FF and FG?

    FG clearly have a stance - they are commemorating people who died in the RIC and DMP.

    This works for them because it makes SF/Aontú froth at the mouth and it puts FF on the spot to either side with SF (who seem to be toxic again), join a blueshirt celebration annoying their traditional core voter, or look weak by doing neither.

    Seems Martin has picked looking weak.
    Martin doesn't really have the luxury of taking public stances on things that the vast majority of the public know little to nothing about. The boycotting thing seems more symbolic than anything and expected in some quarters.


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    #126
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Dublin CC voted against attending this by 38 - 10 last night. There are 8 SF councilors and no Aontu members on Dublin CC.

    SF councillors released a frothing-at-the-mouth statement before the meeting:

    "The RIC and the DMP had an intolerable record of barbarism in this country while carrying out British rule in Ireland.

    That this obscene event is taking place is not only an affront to generations of patriots who struggled to end centuries of imperial tyranny but it seeks to question the very legitimacy of our battle for independence and sovereignty."

    Job done.


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    #127
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    If it ever happened he would be torn limb from limb by the media/social media within months has there ever been a taoiseach that hasn't been deemed a failure sooner or later?


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    #128
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    Martin would be a lot safer pair of hands. Something very untrustworthy about Varadkar, who seems quite obtuse with an extraordinarily high opinion of himself. Martin lives in the real world and will tackle the issues in the right manner.


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    #129
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    Martin would be a lot safer pair of hands. Something very untrustworthy about Varadkar, who seems quite obtuse with an extraordinarily high opinion of himself. Martin lives in the real world and will tackle the issues in the right manner.

    Agree with Martin bring the safer pair of hands. I really get the impression varadkar just thinks it alll a bit of a laugh and experience, a short term itch !

    Pathetic his constituents will vote him back in !


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    #130
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    SF councillors released a frothing-at-the-mouth statement before the meeting:

    "The RIC and the DMP had an intolerable record of barbarism in this country while carrying out British rule in Ireland.

    That this obscene event is taking place is not only an affront to generations of patriots who struggled to end centuries of imperial tyranny but it seeks to question the very legitimacy of our battle for independence and sovereignty."

    Job done.

    You claimed it was done to achieve that, (why would anyone be surprised at the SF reaction) but it has clearly done far more than that, as the vote of just the Dublin CC shows.


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    #131
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,574 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Yeah which suggests FG are confident of winning by agreeing to an election a year early

    Confidence and supply was only supposed to last three years. It's only being dragged out because of Brexit uncertainty. At the height of the Frances Fitzgerald thing, nobody would have predicted the government lasting into 2020, could have made a fortune at the bookies with a little bit of foresight...


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    #132
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Which big two? FF and FG?

    FG clearly have a stance - they are commemorating people who died in the RIC and DMP.

    This works for them because it makes SF/Aontú froth at the mouth and it puts FF on the spot to either side with SF (who seem to be toxic again), join a blueshirt celebration annoying their traditional core voter, or look weak by doing neither.

    Seems Martin has picked looking weak.

    FG and Leo Varadkar K.B.E claim it's everyone in the RIC except the black and tans of the RIC. A wishy washy attempt at spin. FF are looking like keeping quiet as a party and letting individuals do as they like. Would be good for the public to know what type of people they are dealing with.
    It's a complete disgrace IMO and beyond petty FF/FG one up man-ship and certainly far beyond 'annoying' a few shams in SF. It's disgusting quite frankly.


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    #133
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    SF councillors released a frothing-at-the-mouth statement before the meeting:

    "The RIC and the DMP had an intolerable record of barbarism in this country while carrying out British rule in Ireland.

    That this obscene event is taking place is not only an affront to generations of patriots who struggled to end centuries of imperial tyranny but it seeks to question the very legitimacy of our battle for independence and sovereignty."

    Job done.

    Well done Sinn Fein.


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    #134
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Martin has licked his finger and stuck it up in the air to finally gauge what direction the wind be blowin.

    https://twitter.com/MaryERegan/status/1214549610305380352?s=19


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    #135
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Martin has licked his finger and stuck it up in the air to finally gauge what direction the wind be blowin.

    https://twitter.com/MaryERegan/status/1214549610305380352?s=19

    Of course he did, like, he remembers the civil war like it was only yesterday?

    Poor clown, probably up half the night ceiling gazing over what to say, petrified his plastic republican following in south munster might turn their back on him for good... at long last.

    Mehole Martina , the most spineless politician in Ireland. I would say Liam Lynch would turn in his grave if he knew what he died for. The irony is he would probably have no problem commemorating the dead either, he might see the ounce of respect in it.


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    #136
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Good man MM, (pulling the fence splinters out of his arse):
    Mr Martin said that: "Over the last 20 years a model of inclusive commemoration has been developed and implemented by successive governments.

    "Central to this has been the role of public consultation and expert advice. The Government has caused an unnecessary controversy around this RIC/DMP event by abandoning this approach."

    Mr Martin said it is important to "explore every element of this period and use this time as an opportunity to properly discuss every aspect of a complex history".

    "In my view, the event organised by the Justice Minister is not the appropriate vehicle to explore such complex themes.

    "They should withdraw their accusation that, to quote Minister Flanagan, those who choose not to attend this event are abandoning 'mutual understanding and reconciliation'.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0107/1104875-ric-event-martin/

    FG are more and more becoming a nasty bunch with a disdain for the Irish people and their history.


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    #137
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    FG are more and more becoming a nasty bunch with a disdain for the Irish people and their history.

    It's hilarious to see people discovering what Civil War politics actually means.


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    #138
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    It's hilarious to see people discovering what Civil War politics actually means.

    FG are certainly still living it or do you think it never dawned on any of them the controversy it would bring?


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    #139
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    FG are certainly still living it or do you think it never dawned on any of them the controversy it would bring?

    Of course FG and FF are still living it, that is the whole point of the FG/FF divide.

    As I said earlier, they do it on purpose to rile up the SF folks and make FF uncomfortable.

    And it works!


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    #140
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Of course FG and FF are still living it, that is the whole point of the FG/FF divide.

    As I said earlier, they do it on purpose to rile up the SF folks and make FF uncomfortable.

    And it works!

    FF/FG would have naturally merged at this stage, they have constructed a power swap to keep the likes of SF out of power.

    Note what happens anytime SF gets near them in polls. A story will emerge to damage. It's an old stunt at this stage.


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    #141
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Of course FG and FF are still living it, that is the whole point of the FG/FF divide.

    As I said earlier, they do it on purpose to rile up the SF folks and make FF uncomfortable.

    And it works!

    It's nasty behaviour. Ireland and it's history shouldn't be whittled down to point scoring IMO. And SF are certainly not the icon of Irish culture and history. It's more than SF incensed by this farce.
    At least MM took a stand. I suppose it will do damage to FG, but I feel they are on the way out anyway.


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    #142
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    It's nasty behaviour.

    It was a frickin civil war! Two sides killing each other!

    Today's "nasty behaviour" is only an echo of an echo of an echo of 100 years ago.

    But it is really funny for you to suddenly discover that the Blueshirts don't like FF.


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    #143
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    It's nasty behaviour. Ireland and it's history shouldn't be whittled down to point scoring IMO. And SF are certainly not the icon of Irish culture and history. It's more than SF incensed by this farce.
    At least MM took a stand. I suppose it will do damage to FG, but I feel they are on the way out anyway.

    Absolutely more than SF. Which leads me to believe Flanagan was just being a completely arrogant fool.


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    #144
    GhostyMcGhost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭GhostyMcGhost


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Hang on a minute, trump and johnson have got something done! we have the opposite issue here, total paralysis, you think thats better?

    Were you not around for the whole brexit fiasco of 2019? Only now is Johnson actually doing anything and he hasn’t made a trade agreement with EU yet. Leaving the EU is only 1 part of it

    Trump.... well he gets stuff done but it’s his way or not at all and to hell with the repercussions, someone else will clean it up (e.g Iran)

    I’m certainly no FFG voter/supporter but we could have it way worse


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    #145
    LostinBlanch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,908 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    It's hilarious to see people discovering what Civil War politics actually means.

    I don't know about that. Remember Saipan?


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    #146
    Gamb!t
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭Gamb!t


    Irish politics = Rinse and repeat.


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    #147
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    It was a frickin civil war! Two sides killing each other!

    Today's "nasty behaviour" is only an echo of an echo of an echo of 100 years ago.

    But it is really funny for you to suddenly discover that the Blueshirts don't like FF.

    No it wasn't. The RIC/black and Tans were a heavy mob trying to keep any semblance of Irish independence down.
    Do you realise how ridiculous it will be to have the Irish Army contributing to a commemoration of entities who butchered and murdered Irish people to keep them from coming into existence?
    We don't need to celebrate the Nazis to be nice to the Germans.

    The FG/FF showers can get f***ed AFAIC, especially if using this thing as a point scoring exercise.
    Likely wanting to be seen to be different with the upcoming election. As I said, nasty.


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    #148
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    No it wasn't. The RIC/black and Tans were a heavy mob trying to keep any semblance of Irish independence down.

    That was the War of Independence.

    The FF/FG split is based on the civil war that followed, and they never settled it, the split is still based on whether your grandfather was a Dev or a Collins man.


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    #149
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    No it wasn't. The RIC/black and Tans were a heavy mob trying to keep any semblance of Irish independence down.
    Do you realise how ridiculous it will be to have the Irish Army contributing to a commemoration of entities who butchered and murdered Irish people to keep them from coming into existence?
    We don't need to celebrate the Nazis to be nice to the Germans.

    The FG/FF showers can get f***ed AFAIC, especially if using this thing as a point scoring exercise.
    Likely wanting to be seen to be different with the upcoming election. As I said, nasty.

    I think you are a bit out of your depth here in fairness. The issue I have is that every statement you have made is cowpat, I mean total drivel?

    I don't think you actually know what you are talking about here pal. I mean that.

    You should stick to what you know about when spouting.


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    #150
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I think you are a bit out of your depth here in fairness. The issue I have is that every statement you have made is cowpat, I mean total drivel?

    I don't think you actually know what you are talking about here pal. I mean that.

    You should stick to what you know about when spouting.

    Funny, I don't see any solid argument here.


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    #151
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Jamie X wrote: »
    At least Michael Martin doesn't do men's arses.

    Thing is , he doesn't really do anything though, does he?


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