Attempted abduction in Dublin

wiggle16

walshb wrote: »

Good points.

But it’s all relative..

The Navan Road, for example...in comparison to where this lady was attacked, would be a far riskier place for a perp to attempt this...

Absolutely. But why not drive 40 seconds down the road and turn at the park gate and wait in there for someone to come along? In all honesty if this had happened in the park the outcome might have been very different, he would probably not have given up when he did.

Fair f#cks to the lady for fighting back like she did. He picked the wrong woman anyway.

I'm only speculating. But it strikes me that the man who did this was either
- profoundly stupid and brazen
- had a specific reason to target this particular lady
- thought she was his "type" in some way and just had to have her then and there.

boombang

I find it baffling how a reaction to a scary event (irrespective of age/gender) can spiral into a hostile "debate" so quickly.

boombang

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Was the attacker, white, black, asian, fat, tall, slim, no actual decsription beyond what they were wearing, we could be looking for a 4 ft or 6.5 foot man who is thin as a twig or fat as a fool. Who decides to release this thrash to the media, they are worse for publishing it.

The (vague) details about the car are and his clothes are fit to print, but not anything about the man himself?

Prominent_Dawg

eviltwin wrote: »

It reminded me of the Jastine Valdez abduction and we know how that ended. I hope CCTV in the area is good enough to get an ID, it's scary to think something like this can happen. That area is well populated and you would imagine fairly busy at that time of morning.

I was thinking the same thing, thought it was one of the most heart breaking stories ever!

alastair

splinter65 wrote: »

You are joking. Describing the distinguishing features of this latest loolaa would not be gossip but if he’s not white with blue eyes would unleash the howls of protest from the permanently offended army stalking the country at the moment.

Great deal of projection evident here.

wiggle16

wiggle16 wrote: »

If you tell men they are mansplaining, a wall will go up, which is understandable.

And if you tell women, after an attack like this, they need to be (quote) "responsible", that's going to get backs up too. It implies that without someone like him to tell us to be responsible, women are irresponsible. And I believe that tinychancer felt it implies that perhaps the victim in this instance was behaving irresponsibly in some way.

Working class heroes

wiggle16 wrote: »

I think so too.

I do think as well though that a point like that is better made with a bit more civility. If you go on the attack, people get defensive. If you tell men they are mansplaining, a wall will go up, which is understandable. I hate the word, I think it's a cheap way to try to shut someone else up and the sign of a person who can't articulate themselves.

I think it's a misunderstanding as well to say that men get something out of it or like to feel magnanimous when they say "careful, ladies". I don't think that's true. I think that we don't get how condescending it is and how it can miss the point, but we don't get a sense of power from it or whatever.

Fair enough, but I think the post/poster she was responding too might explain the “attacking” tone of the post.

On someone advising women “to be careful “ well, as I mentioned previously, subtle trolling.

alastair

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Was the attacker, white, black, asian, fat, tall, slim, no actual decsription beyond what they were wearing, we could be looking for a 4 ft or 6.5 foot man who is thin as a twig or fat as a fool. Who decides to release this thrash to the media, they are worse for publishing it.

Have you considered that they may not want you looking for anyone? That they have some sort of sequential process for this kind of thing?

Working class heroes

Working class heroes wrote: »

On someone advising women “to be careful “ well, as I mentioned previously, subtle trolling.

It's not the careful bit that bothered me but the "be responsible". I find that very patronising.

strandroad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not the careful bit that bothered me but the "be responsible". I find that very patronising.

Exactly. People go to work at 7 or 8am, what are we supposed to do instead? Be responsible how?
Unhelpful and patronising.

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the careful bit that bothered me but the "be responsible". I find that very patronising.

That annoys me too. What's irresponsible about walking in an urban area at 7:30 in the morning. People have to go to work, college, school etc.

Pintman Paddy Losty

**** sake. Knock it off with the whinging. Any amount of threads that ye can carp on about mansplaining and gender sh1te.

Working class heroes

walshb wrote: »

This is how you articulate your response..

Jaysus, surely we are all on the same team here, gender aside...

The poster took an OTT offense to my post, and in her urgency to reply, it came across as an attack, an unjustified one.

It was completely justified. Your post was “off” as usual. With all due respect of course.

wiggle16

Deleted User wrote: »

And if you tell women, after an attack like this, they need to be (quote) "responsible", that's going to get backs up too. It implies that without someone like him to tell us to be responsible, women are irresponsible. And I believe that tinychancer felt it implies that perhaps the victim in this instance was behaving irresponsibly in some way.

I completely agree with you. As I say though, the moment someone uses the word "mansplaining" it makes it very difficult (for me anyway) to take them seriously. Tinychancer's point is spot on. But a lot of people are not going to process it if it's sprinkled with neologisms like "mansplaining".

There's a distinction to be drawn here. Men who talk to women like that don't get a secret thrill from it, and don't do it to make themselves feel more powerful or clever than women. The vast majority don't realise what they're saying is very insulting and unnecessary.

Put it this way. My sister is 16. When she goes out and will be coming back late I do say "be careful/let me know if you get delayed/don't walk that road on your own, I'll meet you at such and such a place". It's not because it will be her fault if something were to happen to her. It's because I want her to stay safe, but I can't control the fact that there are scumbags out there who would do God knows what to her given the chance and that's just reality. To extrapolate that to all women is paternalistic and condescending, yes, but it isn't motivated by a feeling of secret power.

People need to realise that not all sexism is motivated by misogyny or chauvanism, which is what "mansplaining" strongly implies.

KathleenGrant

Totally agree wiggle16 I have daughters and I regularly tell them to be careful and alert because there are bad people out there. Does it make my point invalid because i am MAMsplaining?

Beeping Kitchen Appliances

walshb is being pilloried like some sort of modern day George Hook.

Garibaldi?

I wonder was this an intended ransom situation.Perhaps the woman or her family are people of considerable means. Sounds like a tv plot but it does still happen occasionally.

Working class heroes

Beeping Kitchen Appliances wrote: »

walshb is being pilloried like some sort of modern day George Hook.

Well at least the powers that be had no qualms in getting rid of George.

jam_mac_jam

Yes, people should be careful. However If somebody wants to bundle you in a car I wonder how much good being careful is going to be for a 60 year old woman.
She may have been extremely careful and aware of her surroundings, unfortunately that is not always enough. What are you meant to do? Run really fast?

Beeping Kitchen Appliances

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I wonder was this an intended ransom situation.Perhaps the woman or her family are people of considerable means. Sounds like a tv plot but it does still happen occasionally.

That would have been done with more organisation and finesse. And probably two people. Same for scenarios involving abductions of relatives of gangland figures.

The limited information we have indicates some kind of unhinged person.
The exact nature of their problems and what their demented objectives were will as yet remain unknown

wiggle16

wiggle16 wrote: »

I completely agree with you. As I say though, the moment someone uses the word "mansplaining" it makes it very difficult (for me anyway) to take them seriously. Tinychancer's point is spot on. But a lot of people are not going to process it if it's sprinkled with neologisms like "mansplaining".

There's a distinction to be drawn here. Men who talk to women like that don't get a secret thrill from it, and don't do it to make themselves feel more powerful or clever than women. The vast majority don't realise what they're saying is very insulting and unnecessary.

Put it this way. My sister is 16. When she goes out and will be coming back late I do say "be careful/let me know if you get delayed/don't walk that road on your own, I'll meet you at such and such a place". It's not because it will be her fault if something were to happen to her. It's because I want her to stay safe, but I can't control the fact that there are scumbags out there who would do God knows what to her given the chance and that's just reality. To extrapolate that to all women is paternalistic and condescending, yes, but it isn't motivated by a feeling of secret power.

People need to realise that not all sexism is motivated by misogyny or chauvanism, which is what "mansplaining" strongly implies.

Mansplaining isn't even on my radar. It's not a word I use or would care to use. I was just pointing out why tinychancers point was accurate. Which we both fundamentally agree on.

To both you and Kathleen I would say warning your daughters or sisters to be extra careful because there's bad people out there is nowhere near the same as some guy on the internet telling women everywhere to be more responsible.

Btw if that's what mansplaining/mamsplaining is then I sistersplain to my 6'2, build like a tank, hard as nails brother on a regular basis. Drive carefully, be careful of the ice etc. I would never tell him to 'be responsible' though because he'd be rightly insulted by the implication that he's not normally responsible.

As for Paddy pintman.. check my post history, I never post about this stuff but I genuinely felt patronised by what that poster said and surprised by the backlash tinychancers got.

Ok, Sorry for dragging the thread off topic. I'll leave it there.

Garibaldi?

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I wonder was this an intended ransom situation.Perhaps the woman or her family are people of considerable means. Sounds like a tv plot but it does still happen occasionally.

Does it?
Hear of many kidnappings in Ireland do you?

pwurple

eviltwin wrote: »

That annoys me too. What's irresponsible about walking in an urban area at 7:30 in the morning. People have to go to work, college, school etc.

Surprisingly these fellows haven't pondered what the victim was wearing yet.... must be the age.

Setting aside the casual sexism in here, It is starting to feel like nobody can expect to walk our streets safely anymore. Men, women or children. I see reports of lone men being kicked off bikes and beaten up too. Children knocked down and brain damaged while playing in housing estate by doped up joyriders. That recent decapitation of a man in Cork.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

bubblypop wrote: »

Does it?
Hear of many kidnappings in Ireland do you?

You hear of as many as in any other place really.
https://www.google.ie/search?q=kevin+lunney+abduction&oq=kevin+lunney+abduction&aqs=chrome..69i57.5439j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.ie/search?q=ira+abductions&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilzYX_j_DmAhXxpHEKHbj5DSEQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Kidnapping+ireland&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZi-azkPDmAhXIQRUIHa7ID4oQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

Have we heard if the man spoke, and if he did what accent did he have? Sometimes, in a situation of darkness, it’s the voice that stands out more characteristically that the appearance.

If he was wearing a light teeshirt, maybe he was on way to/from a gym. Likely stoked up with cocaine or something, like Jasmine Valdez’ murderer was.

Demi Billions River

Demi Billions River wrote: »

You hear of as many as in any other place really.
https://www.google.ie/search?q=kevin+lunney+abduction&oq=kevin+lunney+abduction&aqs=chrome..69i57.5439j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.ie/search?q=ira+abductions&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilzYX_j_DmAhXxpHEKHbj5DSEQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Kidnapping+ireland&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZi-azkPDmAhXIQRUIHa7ID4oQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

The poster suggested kidnap because maybe the family were wealthy.
So a ransom situation, that's what I meant, should have clarified

wiggle16

Deleted User wrote: »

To both you and Kathleen I would say warning your daughters or sisters to be extra careful because there's bad people out there is nowhere near the same as some guy on the internet telling women everywhere to be more responsible.

I completely agree. I suppose I just mean that i think that the generalised "be careful, ladies", while not okay, is motivated by that same concern, except that the concern is inappropriate and misplaced and therefore insulting when it's extrapolated to all women. And I think that that's a point a lot of people miss when they call men out on it.

And telling women to be more "responsible" is ridiculous, 100%.

Anyway I'll leave it there too

thenightman

pwurple wrote: »

Surprisingly these fellows haven't pondered what the victim was wearing yet.... must be the age.

Setting aside the casual sexism in here, It is starting to feel like nobody can expect to walk our streets safely anymore. Men, women or children. I see reports of lone men being kicked off bikes and beaten up too. Children knocked down and brain damaged while playing in housing estate by doped up joyriders. That recent decapitation of a man in Cork.

Get a grip. You just hear more about these types of incidents these days because media is accessible 24/7 at the push of a button. Having worked in the inner city during the syringe point robbery mania of the heroin epidemic of the 90's and grown up in a rough part of West Dublin, I've never found the city safer.

Look at somewhere like London, where a stabbing murder happens a few times a week and see how safe Ireland is by comparison.

bilbot79

Demi Billions River wrote: »

On behalf of all women, thanks for your patronising "concerned" advice. Wait... are you threatening someone??!
.

Ah stop!

padd b1975

Assetbacked wrote: »

White shirt and dark trousers is not a great description but presumably it was difficult for the poor woman to process what happened.

Mormon?

suicide_circus

there really are some crazies out there. Beware of The Stoneybatter Snatcher.

seamus

thenightman wrote: »

Get a grip. You just hear more about these types of incidents these days because media is accessible 24/7 at the push of a button. Having worked in the inner city during the syringe point robbery mania of the heroin epidemic of the 90's and grown up in a rough part of West Dublin, I've never found the city safer.

Look at somewhere like London, where a stabbing murder happens a few times a week and see how safe Ireland is by comparison.

This. Some SF politician was being interviewed saying that this is a symptom of a "city that is not at ease with itself".

WTF is that supposed to mean? There's a reason these incidents make the national news; they're incredibly rare. Ireland and Dublin are incredibly safe by historical and international standards.

As has been said here, there's very little to go on from the Gardai, but that's likely by design. They don't really expect anyone to ID the guy from the description, but they do expect the news to put the ****s up the guy and put people on guard for future attempts by him.

PowerToWait

Far too much gender politics. Can we not refocus our attention on turning it into a race war thread with snide implications the attacker was not white, because if he was the cops would have said so?

We are missing a golden opportunity.

Field east

Demi Billions River wrote: »

Yeah well maybe you better watch your back as well.

Do you see how that sounds threatening? There's no need for it, you're mansplaining going outside to grown-up people as though their gender means that their intelligence precludes them from making the correct judgement without your intervention.

That makes you part of a group of people who regard women as "less than", and I don't mean in the physical sense, because I know typically an average man is going to overpower and average woman. You're being condescending under the guise of concern because you get a powerful feeling of magnanimity when you give womankind sage advice to remind them of their inherent vulnerability.

We know outside is dangerous, we're the ones who have to go there. Thanks. I'm finished now.

What’s given rise to your angle on this worrying action. Did you over indulge at Christmas on what ?
If it was someone wanting to rob a purse then I’d assume people with handbags - mainly women- are more at risk than others. Brawls knifing late at night - outside chippers, pubs, nightclubs mainly involve males/ men.
The point is that the gender involved - re perpetrator or victim-depends on the the overall ‘environment/circumstances’. Sometimes it is mainly men that are at risk and sometimes it is mainly women. And sometimes it is the ‘ wrong person in the wrong place and at the wrong time’ who is the victim - could be female or male

lainey_d_123

walshb wrote: »

This monster needs to be apprehended.

And women, as always, need to be so very careful and responsible when out and about.

7.30 is still pitch dark out, quiet enough as well...

Oh for ****s sake.

Is there no single scenario in the entire world where a woman isn't blamed for not being careful when she is attacked?

It was 7.30 in the morning, on a public street at a time when people are going to work. What exactly did you want the poor woman to do to avoid someone dragging her off the street?

The only way to avoid risk is to stay at home 24/7. You are literally saying that women now can't even expect to head to work in the morning without being paranoid about safety (when being 'careful' wouldn't have even helped anything).

If the victim had been a man, would you be saying men should be careful when out and about at 7.30am on a weekday?

pjohnson

PowerToWait wrote: »

Far too much gender politics. Can we not refocus our attention on turning it into a race war thread with snide implications the attacker was not white, because if he was the cops would have said so?

We are missing a golden opportunity.

I thought when race was mentioned and "PC" it'd go the usual race way. Suprising its sticking on gender tho!

I honestly thought gender stuff had gone out of fashion.

beauf

thenightman wrote: »

Get a grip. You just hear more about these types of incidents these days because media is accessible 24/7 at the push of a button. Having worked in the inner city during the syringe point robbery mania of the heroin epidemic of the 90's and grown up in a rough part of West Dublin, I've never found the city safer.

Look at somewhere like London, where a stabbing murder happens a few times a week and see how safe Ireland is by comparison.

Pop London is nearly 9 million, Dublin is 1.3. So should be 10x higher? I think Dublin feels more like a UK city than Dublin of old.

I think one of the difference is that crime used to be rare in some areas and common in others. There were more obvious crime blackspots. It's more generic across everywhere now. So if you were used to a rougher area then it's not as bad as that, but in general everyone is seeing and experiencing more crime. It's country wide aswell rural too.

While there is more social media a lot of crime goes unreported, even now.

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If he was wearing a light teeshirt, maybe he was on way to/from a gym. Likely stoked up with cocaine or something, like Jasmine Valdez’ murderer was.

*Jastine

Lackey

The 2020s wrote: »

A woman in her 60s I a quote strange target, I would have thought that the most likely target would’ve been a teenage girl or young woman.

WTF?

lainey_d_123

wiggle16 wrote: »

I completely agree with you. As I say though, the moment someone uses the word "mansplaining" it makes it very difficult (for me anyway) to take them seriously. Tinychancer's point is spot on. But a lot of people are not going to process it if it's sprinkled with neologisms like "mansplaining".

There's a distinction to be drawn here. Men who talk to women like that don't get a secret thrill from it, and don't do it to make themselves feel more powerful or clever than women. The vast majority don't realise what they're saying is very insulting and unnecessary.

Put it this way. My sister is 16. When she goes out and will be coming back late I do say "be careful/let me know if you get delayed/don't walk that road on your own, I'll meet you at such and such a place". It's not because it will be her fault if something were to happen to her. It's because I want her to stay safe, but I can't control the fact that there are scumbags out there who would do God knows what to her given the chance and that's just reality. To extrapolate that to all women is paternalistic and condescending, yes, but it isn't motivated by a feeling of secret power.

People need to realise that not all sexism is motivated by misogyny or chauvanism, which is what "mansplaining" strongly implies

There's a major difference between offering an actual safer option, like offering to pick someone up late at night so they don't have to walk alone, and telling women they need to be careful in a situation where anyone should feel safe and secure going about their daily business.

If the victim of this had been a man, there's no way on earth that poster would have warned 'men' to be careful and responsible when on their way to work. It would have been seen for what it is - a random attack on an unfortunate victim who seems to have been randomly targeted. There would be no responsibility whatsoever put on the victim and their entire gender.

There's another thread about a male rapist who preyed on heterosexual men who were drunk and vulnerable and not one single poster has said that men should be more careful and not get so drunk. The understanding is there that most men in the country could have been a victim of someone like this if they were unfortunate enough to meet him. Yet a woman is attacked while sober and carrying out her daily business and women are being told to be careful and responsible at 7.30am, on their way to work?

That this even needs to be explained is just mindblowing. Why are you more concerned about quibbling about the use of certain words than addressing the point? Why are women expected to frame any negative opinion in a way that's pleasing and inoffensive?

Field east

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Oh for ****s sake.

Is there no single scenario in the entire world where a woman isn't blamed for not being careful when she is attacked?

It was 7.30 in the morning, on a public street at a time when people are going to work. What exactly did you want the poor woman to do to avoid someone dragging her off the street?

The only way to avoid risk is to stay at home 24/7. You are literally saying that women now can't even expect to head to work in the morning without being paranoid about safety (when being 'careful' wouldn't have even helped anything).

If the victim had been a man, would you be saying men should be careful when out and about at 7.30am on a weekday?

Re men being responsible/ careful - the answer is ‘yes’ BUT it depends on the circumstances . For example. If there were two roads/ paths re walking/cycling to work you might advise Him to use the ‘safer’ road if he was using the more potentially dangerous road. Or if he walks to work in the dark that He should start wearing a reflective jacket. “ You should be a bit more responsible as you have a wife and young family”. Etc, etc, etc.

beauf

I think advice for people to watch people behaving oddly especially when alone is valid for all people at all ages regardless of gender in all locations at any time.

jiltloop

walshb wrote: »

This monster needs to be apprehended.

And women, as always, need to be so very careful and responsible when out and about.

7.30 is still pitch dark out, quiet enough as well...

I don't really understand this comment. How can you be careful to not be abducted just going to work in the morning?

*I see someone made the same point above.

walshb

The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.

Field east

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

There's a major difference between offering an actual safer option, like offering to pick someone up late at night so they don't have to walk alone, and telling women they need to be careful in a situation where anyone should feel safe and secure going about their daily business.

If the victim of this had been a man, there's no way on earth that poster would have warned 'men' to be careful and responsible when on their way to work. It would have been seen for what it is - a random attack on an unfortunate victim who seems to have been randomly targeted. There would be no responsibility whatsoever put on the victim and their entire gender.

There's another thread about a male rapist who preyed on heterosexual men who were drunk and vulnerable and not one single poster has said that men should be more careful and not get so drunk. The understanding is there that most men in the country could have been a victim of someone like this if they were unfortunate enough to meet him. Yet a woman is attacked while sober and carrying out her daily business and women are being told to be careful and responsible at 7.30am, on their way to work?

That this even needs to be explained is just mindblowing. Why are you more concerned about quibbling about the use of certain words than addressing the point? Why are women expected to frame any negative opinion in a way that's pleasing and inoffensive?

So by implication ,you are /are you saying that women who want to go for a stroll / walk/ to work etc should continue do do so on the same road and at around that hour of the morning whenever they want to?

I would be of the opinion that every female and male who are aware of this incident will take whatever precaution they can to reduce the risk of the same/similar happening to them some will do this automatically but others-FEMALE and MALE may need to be reminded of their responsibility and take precautions. Some people actually do behave irresponsibly at times

lainey_d_123

walshb wrote: »

The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.

But why is it just women who need to be careful? Why are men allowed to do all these things without being told they're not responsible? Why is it just women who are forced to worry 24/7 and make adjustments to plans and lifestyle?

Walshb
You're digging a bigger hole..... Just leave it now!

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.

How do you suggest I go to work? I walk on a quiet road every morning to go to the train. That's not responsible. What would be the responsible option there?

This is laughable.

walshb

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But why is it just women who need to be careful? Why are men allowed to do all these things without being told they're not responsible? Why is it just women who are forced to worry 24/7 and make adjustments to plans and lifestyle?

I never said it was just women.

But from the sexual attack/rape angle, yes, women need to be that bit more careful and responsible...

Men need to be careful and responsible too when out and about.

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

I never said it was just women.

But from the sexual attack/rape angle, yes, women need to be that bit more careful and responsible...

Men need to be careful and responsible to when out and about.

Men are victims of more crime then women and are more likely to be mugged. Yet the advice only applies to women.