Attempted abduction in Dublin

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the careful bit that bothered me but the "be responsible". I find that very patronising.

That annoys me too. What's irresponsible about walking in an urban area at 7:30 in the morning. People have to go to work, college, school etc.

Pintman Paddy Losty

**** sake. Knock it off with the whinging. Any amount of threads that ye can carp on about mansplaining and gender sh1te.

Working class heroes

walshb wrote: »

This is how you articulate your response..

Jaysus, surely we are all on the same team here, gender aside...

The poster took an OTT offense to my post, and in her urgency to reply, it came across as an attack, an unjustified one.

It was completely justified. Your post was “off” as usual. With all due respect of course.

wiggle16

Deleted User wrote: »

And if you tell women, after an attack like this, they need to be (quote) "responsible", that's going to get backs up too. It implies that without someone like him to tell us to be responsible, women are irresponsible. And I believe that tinychancer felt it implies that perhaps the victim in this instance was behaving irresponsibly in some way.

I completely agree with you. As I say though, the moment someone uses the word "mansplaining" it makes it very difficult (for me anyway) to take them seriously. Tinychancer's point is spot on. But a lot of people are not going to process it if it's sprinkled with neologisms like "mansplaining".

There's a distinction to be drawn here. Men who talk to women like that don't get a secret thrill from it, and don't do it to make themselves feel more powerful or clever than women. The vast majority don't realise what they're saying is very insulting and unnecessary.

Put it this way. My sister is 16. When she goes out and will be coming back late I do say "be careful/let me know if you get delayed/don't walk that road on your own, I'll meet you at such and such a place". It's not because it will be her fault if something were to happen to her. It's because I want her to stay safe, but I can't control the fact that there are scumbags out there who would do God knows what to her given the chance and that's just reality. To extrapolate that to all women is paternalistic and condescending, yes, but it isn't motivated by a feeling of secret power.

People need to realise that not all sexism is motivated by misogyny or chauvanism, which is what "mansplaining" strongly implies.

KathleenGrant

Totally agree wiggle16 I have daughters and I regularly tell them to be careful and alert because there are bad people out there. Does it make my point invalid because i am MAMsplaining?

Beeping Kitchen Appliances

walshb is being pilloried like some sort of modern day George Hook.

Garibaldi?

I wonder was this an intended ransom situation.Perhaps the woman or her family are people of considerable means. Sounds like a tv plot but it does still happen occasionally.

Working class heroes

Beeping Kitchen Appliances wrote: »

walshb is being pilloried like some sort of modern day George Hook.

Well at least the powers that be had no qualms in getting rid of George.

jam_mac_jam

Yes, people should be careful. However If somebody wants to bundle you in a car I wonder how much good being careful is going to be for a 60 year old woman.
She may have been extremely careful and aware of her surroundings, unfortunately that is not always enough. What are you meant to do? Run really fast?

Beeping Kitchen Appliances

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I wonder was this an intended ransom situation.Perhaps the woman or her family are people of considerable means. Sounds like a tv plot but it does still happen occasionally.

That would have been done with more organisation and finesse. And probably two people. Same for scenarios involving abductions of relatives of gangland figures.

The limited information we have indicates some kind of unhinged person.
The exact nature of their problems and what their demented objectives were will as yet remain unknown

wiggle16

wiggle16 wrote: »

I completely agree with you. As I say though, the moment someone uses the word "mansplaining" it makes it very difficult (for me anyway) to take them seriously. Tinychancer's point is spot on. But a lot of people are not going to process it if it's sprinkled with neologisms like "mansplaining".

There's a distinction to be drawn here. Men who talk to women like that don't get a secret thrill from it, and don't do it to make themselves feel more powerful or clever than women. The vast majority don't realise what they're saying is very insulting and unnecessary.

Put it this way. My sister is 16. When she goes out and will be coming back late I do say "be careful/let me know if you get delayed/don't walk that road on your own, I'll meet you at such and such a place". It's not because it will be her fault if something were to happen to her. It's because I want her to stay safe, but I can't control the fact that there are scumbags out there who would do God knows what to her given the chance and that's just reality. To extrapolate that to all women is paternalistic and condescending, yes, but it isn't motivated by a feeling of secret power.

People need to realise that not all sexism is motivated by misogyny or chauvanism, which is what "mansplaining" strongly implies.

Mansplaining isn't even on my radar. It's not a word I use or would care to use. I was just pointing out why tinychancers point was accurate. Which we both fundamentally agree on.

To both you and Kathleen I would say warning your daughters or sisters to be extra careful because there's bad people out there is nowhere near the same as some guy on the internet telling women everywhere to be more responsible.

Btw if that's what mansplaining/mamsplaining is then I sistersplain to my 6'2, build like a tank, hard as nails brother on a regular basis. Drive carefully, be careful of the ice etc. I would never tell him to 'be responsible' though because he'd be rightly insulted by the implication that he's not normally responsible.

As for Paddy pintman.. check my post history, I never post about this stuff but I genuinely felt patronised by what that poster said and surprised by the backlash tinychancers got.

Ok, Sorry for dragging the thread off topic. I'll leave it there.

Garibaldi?

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I wonder was this an intended ransom situation.Perhaps the woman or her family are people of considerable means. Sounds like a tv plot but it does still happen occasionally.

Does it?
Hear of many kidnappings in Ireland do you?

pwurple

eviltwin wrote: »

That annoys me too. What's irresponsible about walking in an urban area at 7:30 in the morning. People have to go to work, college, school etc.

Surprisingly these fellows haven't pondered what the victim was wearing yet.... must be the age.

Setting aside the casual sexism in here, It is starting to feel like nobody can expect to walk our streets safely anymore. Men, women or children. I see reports of lone men being kicked off bikes and beaten up too. Children knocked down and brain damaged while playing in housing estate by doped up joyriders. That recent decapitation of a man in Cork.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

bubblypop wrote: »

Does it?
Hear of many kidnappings in Ireland do you?

You hear of as many as in any other place really.
https://www.google.ie/search?q=kevin+lunney+abduction&oq=kevin+lunney+abduction&aqs=chrome..69i57.5439j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.ie/search?q=ira+abductions&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilzYX_j_DmAhXxpHEKHbj5DSEQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Kidnapping+ireland&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZi-azkPDmAhXIQRUIHa7ID4oQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

Have we heard if the man spoke, and if he did what accent did he have? Sometimes, in a situation of darkness, it’s the voice that stands out more characteristically that the appearance.

If he was wearing a light teeshirt, maybe he was on way to/from a gym. Likely stoked up with cocaine or something, like Jasmine Valdez’ murderer was.

Demi Billions River

Demi Billions River wrote: »

You hear of as many as in any other place really.
https://www.google.ie/search?q=kevin+lunney+abduction&oq=kevin+lunney+abduction&aqs=chrome..69i57.5439j0j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

https://www.google.ie/search?q=ira+abductions&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilzYX_j_DmAhXxpHEKHbj5DSEQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Kidnapping+ireland&safe=off&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZi-azkPDmAhXIQRUIHa7ID4oQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=360&bih=464&dpr=3

The poster suggested kidnap because maybe the family were wealthy.
So a ransom situation, that's what I meant, should have clarified

wiggle16

Deleted User wrote: »

To both you and Kathleen I would say warning your daughters or sisters to be extra careful because there's bad people out there is nowhere near the same as some guy on the internet telling women everywhere to be more responsible.

I completely agree. I suppose I just mean that i think that the generalised "be careful, ladies", while not okay, is motivated by that same concern, except that the concern is inappropriate and misplaced and therefore insulting when it's extrapolated to all women. And I think that that's a point a lot of people miss when they call men out on it.

And telling women to be more "responsible" is ridiculous, 100%.

Anyway I'll leave it there too

thenightman

pwurple wrote: »

Surprisingly these fellows haven't pondered what the victim was wearing yet.... must be the age.

Setting aside the casual sexism in here, It is starting to feel like nobody can expect to walk our streets safely anymore. Men, women or children. I see reports of lone men being kicked off bikes and beaten up too. Children knocked down and brain damaged while playing in housing estate by doped up joyriders. That recent decapitation of a man in Cork.

Get a grip. You just hear more about these types of incidents these days because media is accessible 24/7 at the push of a button. Having worked in the inner city during the syringe point robbery mania of the heroin epidemic of the 90's and grown up in a rough part of West Dublin, I've never found the city safer.

Look at somewhere like London, where a stabbing murder happens a few times a week and see how safe Ireland is by comparison.

bilbot79

Demi Billions River wrote: »

On behalf of all women, thanks for your patronising "concerned" advice. Wait... are you threatening someone??!
.

Ah stop!

padd b1975

Assetbacked wrote: »

White shirt and dark trousers is not a great description but presumably it was difficult for the poor woman to process what happened.

Mormon?

suicide_circus

there really are some crazies out there. Beware of The Stoneybatter Snatcher.

seamus

thenightman wrote: »

Get a grip. You just hear more about these types of incidents these days because media is accessible 24/7 at the push of a button. Having worked in the inner city during the syringe point robbery mania of the heroin epidemic of the 90's and grown up in a rough part of West Dublin, I've never found the city safer.

Look at somewhere like London, where a stabbing murder happens a few times a week and see how safe Ireland is by comparison.

This. Some SF politician was being interviewed saying that this is a symptom of a "city that is not at ease with itself".

WTF is that supposed to mean? There's a reason these incidents make the national news; they're incredibly rare. Ireland and Dublin are incredibly safe by historical and international standards.

As has been said here, there's very little to go on from the Gardai, but that's likely by design. They don't really expect anyone to ID the guy from the description, but they do expect the news to put the ****s up the guy and put people on guard for future attempts by him.

PowerToWait

Far too much gender politics. Can we not refocus our attention on turning it into a race war thread with snide implications the attacker was not white, because if he was the cops would have said so?

We are missing a golden opportunity.

Field east

Demi Billions River wrote: »

Yeah well maybe you better watch your back as well.

Do you see how that sounds threatening? There's no need for it, you're mansplaining going outside to grown-up people as though their gender means that their intelligence precludes them from making the correct judgement without your intervention.

That makes you part of a group of people who regard women as "less than", and I don't mean in the physical sense, because I know typically an average man is going to overpower and average woman. You're being condescending under the guise of concern because you get a powerful feeling of magnanimity when you give womankind sage advice to remind them of their inherent vulnerability.

We know outside is dangerous, we're the ones who have to go there. Thanks. I'm finished now.

What’s given rise to your angle on this worrying action. Did you over indulge at Christmas on what ?
If it was someone wanting to rob a purse then I’d assume people with handbags - mainly women- are more at risk than others. Brawls knifing late at night - outside chippers, pubs, nightclubs mainly involve males/ men.
The point is that the gender involved - re perpetrator or victim-depends on the the overall ‘environment/circumstances’. Sometimes it is mainly men that are at risk and sometimes it is mainly women. And sometimes it is the ‘ wrong person in the wrong place and at the wrong time’ who is the victim - could be female or male

lainey_d_123

walshb wrote: »

This monster needs to be apprehended.

And women, as always, need to be so very careful and responsible when out and about.

7.30 is still pitch dark out, quiet enough as well...

Oh for ****s sake.

Is there no single scenario in the entire world where a woman isn't blamed for not being careful when she is attacked?

It was 7.30 in the morning, on a public street at a time when people are going to work. What exactly did you want the poor woman to do to avoid someone dragging her off the street?

The only way to avoid risk is to stay at home 24/7. You are literally saying that women now can't even expect to head to work in the morning without being paranoid about safety (when being 'careful' wouldn't have even helped anything).

If the victim had been a man, would you be saying men should be careful when out and about at 7.30am on a weekday?

pjohnson

PowerToWait wrote: »

Far too much gender politics. Can we not refocus our attention on turning it into a race war thread with snide implications the attacker was not white, because if he was the cops would have said so?

We are missing a golden opportunity.

I thought when race was mentioned and "PC" it'd go the usual race way. Suprising its sticking on gender tho!

I honestly thought gender stuff had gone out of fashion.

beauf

thenightman wrote: »

Get a grip. You just hear more about these types of incidents these days because media is accessible 24/7 at the push of a button. Having worked in the inner city during the syringe point robbery mania of the heroin epidemic of the 90's and grown up in a rough part of West Dublin, I've never found the city safer.

Look at somewhere like London, where a stabbing murder happens a few times a week and see how safe Ireland is by comparison.

Pop London is nearly 9 million, Dublin is 1.3. So should be 10x higher? I think Dublin feels more like a UK city than Dublin of old.

I think one of the difference is that crime used to be rare in some areas and common in others. There were more obvious crime blackspots. It's more generic across everywhere now. So if you were used to a rougher area then it's not as bad as that, but in general everyone is seeing and experiencing more crime. It's country wide aswell rural too.

While there is more social media a lot of crime goes unreported, even now.

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If he was wearing a light teeshirt, maybe he was on way to/from a gym. Likely stoked up with cocaine or something, like Jasmine Valdez’ murderer was.

*Jastine

Lackey

The 2020s wrote: »

A woman in her 60s I a quote strange target, I would have thought that the most likely target would’ve been a teenage girl or young woman.

WTF?

lainey_d_123

wiggle16 wrote: »

I completely agree with you. As I say though, the moment someone uses the word "mansplaining" it makes it very difficult (for me anyway) to take them seriously. Tinychancer's point is spot on. But a lot of people are not going to process it if it's sprinkled with neologisms like "mansplaining".

There's a distinction to be drawn here. Men who talk to women like that don't get a secret thrill from it, and don't do it to make themselves feel more powerful or clever than women. The vast majority don't realise what they're saying is very insulting and unnecessary.

Put it this way. My sister is 16. When she goes out and will be coming back late I do say "be careful/let me know if you get delayed/don't walk that road on your own, I'll meet you at such and such a place". It's not because it will be her fault if something were to happen to her. It's because I want her to stay safe, but I can't control the fact that there are scumbags out there who would do God knows what to her given the chance and that's just reality. To extrapolate that to all women is paternalistic and condescending, yes, but it isn't motivated by a feeling of secret power.

People need to realise that not all sexism is motivated by misogyny or chauvanism, which is what "mansplaining" strongly implies

There's a major difference between offering an actual safer option, like offering to pick someone up late at night so they don't have to walk alone, and telling women they need to be careful in a situation where anyone should feel safe and secure going about their daily business.

If the victim of this had been a man, there's no way on earth that poster would have warned 'men' to be careful and responsible when on their way to work. It would have been seen for what it is - a random attack on an unfortunate victim who seems to have been randomly targeted. There would be no responsibility whatsoever put on the victim and their entire gender.

There's another thread about a male rapist who preyed on heterosexual men who were drunk and vulnerable and not one single poster has said that men should be more careful and not get so drunk. The understanding is there that most men in the country could have been a victim of someone like this if they were unfortunate enough to meet him. Yet a woman is attacked while sober and carrying out her daily business and women are being told to be careful and responsible at 7.30am, on their way to work?

That this even needs to be explained is just mindblowing. Why are you more concerned about quibbling about the use of certain words than addressing the point? Why are women expected to frame any negative opinion in a way that's pleasing and inoffensive?