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Attempted abduction in Dublin

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    #92
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭Field east


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    Oh for ****s sake.

    Is there no single scenario in the entire world where a woman isn't blamed for not being careful when she is attacked?

    It was 7.30 in the morning, on a public street at a time when people are going to work. What exactly did you want the poor woman to do to avoid someone dragging her off the street?

    The only way to avoid risk is to stay at home 24/7. You are literally saying that women now can't even expect to head to work in the morning without being paranoid about safety (when being 'careful' wouldn't have even helped anything).

    If the victim had been a man, would you be saying men should be careful when out and about at 7.30am on a weekday?
    Re men being responsible/ careful - the answer is ‘yes’ BUT it depends on the circumstances . For example. If there were two roads/ paths re walking/cycling to work you might advise Him to use the ‘safer’ road if he was using the more potentially dangerous road. Or if he walks to work in the dark that He should start wearing a reflective jacket. “ You should be a bit more responsible as you have a wife and young family”. Etc, etc, etc.


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    #93
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think advice for people to watch people behaving oddly especially when alone is valid for all people at all ages regardless of gender in all locations at any time.


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    #94
    jiltloop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    walshb wrote: »
    This monster needs to be apprehended.

    And women, as always, need to be so very careful and responsible when out and about.

    7.30 is still pitch dark out, quiet enough as well...

    I don't really understand this comment. How can you be careful to not be abducted just going to work in the morning?

    *I see someone made the same point above.


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    #95
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

    Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

    Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

    In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

    Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.


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    #96
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭Field east


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    There's a major difference between offering an actual safer option, like offering to pick someone up late at night so they don't have to walk alone, and telling women they need to be careful in a situation where anyone should feel safe and secure going about their daily business.

    If the victim of this had been a man, there's no way on earth that poster would have warned 'men' to be careful and responsible when on their way to work. It would have been seen for what it is - a random attack on an unfortunate victim who seems to have been randomly targeted. There would be no responsibility whatsoever put on the victim and their entire gender.

    There's another thread about a male rapist who preyed on heterosexual men who were drunk and vulnerable and not one single poster has said that men should be more careful and not get so drunk. The understanding is there that most men in the country could have been a victim of someone like this if they were unfortunate enough to meet him. Yet a woman is attacked while sober and carrying out her daily business and women are being told to be careful and responsible at 7.30am, on their way to work?

    That this even needs to be explained is just mindblowing. Why are you more concerned about quibbling about the use of certain words than addressing the point? Why are women expected to frame any negative opinion in a way that's pleasing and inoffensive?
    So by implication ,you are /are you saying that women who want to go for a stroll / walk/ to work etc should continue do do so on the same road and at around that hour of the morning whenever they want to?

    I would be of the opinion that every female and male who are aware of this incident will take whatever precaution they can to reduce the risk of the same/similar happening to them some will do this automatically but others-FEMALE and MALE may need to be reminded of their responsibility and take precautions. Some people actually do behave irresponsibly at times


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    #97
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    walshb wrote: »
    The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

    Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

    Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

    In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

    Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.

    But why is it just women who need to be careful? Why are men allowed to do all these things without being told they're not responsible? Why is it just women who are forced to worry 24/7 and make adjustments to plans and lifestyle?


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Walshb
    You're digging a bigger hole..... Just leave it now!


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    #99
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    walshb wrote: »
    The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

    Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

    Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

    In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

    Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.


    How do you suggest I go to work? I walk on a quiet road every morning to go to the train. That's not responsible. What would be the responsible option there?

    This is laughable.


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    #100
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    But why is it just women who need to be careful? Why are men allowed to do all these things without being told they're not responsible? Why is it just women who are forced to worry 24/7 and make adjustments to plans and lifestyle?

    I never said it was just women.

    But from the sexual attack/rape angle, yes, women need to be that bit more careful and responsible...

    Men need to be careful and responsible too when out and about.


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    #101
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    walshb wrote: »
    I never said it was just women.

    But from the sexual attack/rape angle, yes, women need to be that bit more careful and responsible...

    Men need to be careful and responsible to when out and about.

    Men are victims of more crime then women and are more likely to be mugged. Yet the advice only applies to women.


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    #102
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Walshb
    You're digging a bigger hole..... Just leave it now!

    Not digging any hole. It's just sage advice....logical. Sensible.

    People don't want to hear it, or disagree....fine.


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    #103
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Men are victims of more crime then women and are more likely to be mugged. Yet the advice only applies to women.

    Clearly you din;t read what I wrote.


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    #104
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I don't really understand this comment. How can you be careful to not be abducted just going to work in the morning?

    *I see someone made the same point above.

    Exactly.

    And the funny thing is, is that had a woman made a thread saying she was moving to this area, and asking if it she'd be safe to go outside there at 07.30am, it would be have been full of caustic replies from men implying it was pathetic to have such concerns and that not all men are dangerous.

    A random, freak incident happens and suddenly it's irresponsible to step outside your front door and you should be escorted to work in case you're snatched off the street.

    The total lack of logic here is impressive.


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    #105
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Field east wrote: »
    So by implication ,you are /are you saying that women who want to go for a stroll / walk/ to work etc should continue do do so on the same road and at around that hour of the morning whenever they want to?

    I would be of the opinion that every female and male who are aware of this incident will take whatever precaution they can to reduce the risk of the same/similar happening to them some will do this automatically but others-FEMALE and MALE may need to be reminded of their responsibility and take precautions. Some people actually do behave irresponsibly at times

    Very true, but walshb has emphatically stated his advice was aimed solely at women.


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    #106
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    How do you suggest I go to work? I walk on a quiet road every morning to go to the train. That's not responsible. What would be the responsible option there?

    This is laughable.

    It's not laughable. You do as you want. My advice is simple: When out and about people need to be careful on their choices...

    Sorry, but the excuse of "how was I meant to get to work" won't be of any comfort to you if your choices result in something nasty happening to you

    Same way if someone gets knocked down and killed out walking on a quite road with no footpath, that is badly lit.....and there excuse was that they had nowhere else to go for a walk...


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    #107
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    walshb wrote: »
    I never said it was just women.

    But from the sexual attack/rape angle, yes, women need to be that bit more careful and responsible...

    Men need to be careful and responsible to when out and about.

    There is a thread on here about men being drugged and raped when very drunk after a night out, and not a single poster there said they should be careful and responsible.

    Yet here you are implying that women can't go out to work in the morning without worrying.

    Like...have you any idea what you're actually saying? Do you not think women are already careful and alert in any situation which could be considered 'dangerous'? Now we can't even walk on the street in the daytime without worrying?


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    #108
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    walshb wrote: »
    The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

    Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

    Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

    In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

    Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.

    I don’t think there was any need for the word ‘responsible’. You should be able to walk down the road without having to fear being bundled into a car.

    I’d imagine this creep probably isn’t too far away from being caught, but people will need to be vigilant until he is.


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    #109
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    There is a thread on here about men being drugged and raped when very drunk after a night out, and not a single poster there said they should be careful and responsible.

    Yet here you are implying that women can't go out to work in the morning without worrying.

    Like...have you any idea what you're actually saying? Do you not think women are already careful and alert in any situation which could be considered 'dangerous'? Now we can't even walk on the street in the daytime without worrying?

    I am not aware of such thread.

    I would have said that they should be careful and responsible when out and about, and more so when alcohol is involved.


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    #110
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    walshb wrote: »
    It's not laughable. You do as you want. My advice is simple: When out and about people need to be careful on their choices...

    Sorry, but the excuse of "how was I meant to get to work" won't be of any comfort to you if your choices result in something nasty happening to you

    Same way if someone gets knocked down and killed out walking on a quite road with no footpath, that is badly lit.....and there excuse was that they had nowhere else to go for a walk...

    Again, laughable. We don't live in a country where I need to be worried about walking to work or that my choices will cause "something nasty" to happen. This is extremely rare.

    An absolute joke.


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    #111
    TwoMonthsOff
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭TwoMonthsOff


    walshb wrote: »
    The responsible comment I made was more in the general sense for women...

    Example: out walking alone and taking a very secluded and quiet route. That is not responsible.

    Out socialising and getting tipsy or inebriated and walking home alone, or getting a taxi home alone. Not responsible.

    In a safe world these choices are fine...we don’t live in such a world...

    Anyway, we all want this dangerous man caught. That is the main thing.

    You dont need to explain yourself, I give to same advice to my partner and sisters, be aware of your surroundings etc... it could be difference between you living and dying.


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    #112
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Again, laughable. We don't live in a country where I need to be worried about walking to work or that my choices will cause "something nasty" to happen. This is extremely rare.

    An absolute joke.

    Grand. So, take your chances so....


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    #113
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Naos


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    But why is it just women who need to be careful? Why are men allowed to do all these things without being told they're not responsible? Why is it just women who are forced to worry 24/7 and make adjustments to plans and lifestyle?

    Because we do not live in a perfect world and statistics show this type of attack & similar are more likely to happen to women than men.

    I believe WalshB meant well in what he said, even if it was preaching to the choir and the word 'responsible' was a bad choice.


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    #114
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    TwoMonthsOff wrote: »
    You dont need to explain yourself, I give to same advice to my partner and sisters, be aware of your surroundings etc... it could be difference between you living and dying.

    The same advice is just as relevant to men! And why do you think your sage wisdom is necessary? Do you think we don't know this stuff?


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    #115
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    walshb wrote: »
    Grand. So, take your chances so....

    This is utterly despicable.

    You are telling women in Ireland in 2020 that they should not feel safe walking to work in the morning and implying that doing so is inviting some horrific attack.

    Vile.


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    #116
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Again, laughable. We don't live in a country where I need to be worried about walking to work or that my choices will cause "something nasty" to happen. This is extremely rare.

    An absolute joke.

    A few years ago a Canadian woman of about 20 had her phone stolen on a (then) lonely section of Dublin's south quays just outside my old flat. It was about 10pm and dark. She had taken Google Maps out and was walking "to see the seaside" and was going to walk through Grand Canal Dock and Ringsend. A local scummer grabbed her phone. In the end he dropped it and she got it back with only minor scratches. I was floored by the naivety of this young traveller. There were other risks she was running too, but she was totally oblivious to them. Point here is Dublin is a place you need to keep your wits about you in places.


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    #117
    TwoMonthsOff
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭TwoMonthsOff


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    The same advice is just as relevant to men! And why do you think your sage wisdom is necessary? Do you think we don't know this stuff?

    Yes I think some women dont know this stuff.


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    #118
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    boombang wrote: »
    A few years ago a Canadian woman of about 20 had her phone stolen on a (then) lonely section of Dublin's south quays just outside my old flat. It was about 10pm and dark. She had taken Google Maps out and was walking "to see the seaside" and was going to walk through Grand Canal Dock and Ringsend. A local scummer grabbed her phone. In the end he dropped it and she got it back with only minor scratches. I was floored by the naivety of this young traveller. There were other risks she was running too, but she was totally oblivious to them. Point here is Dublin is a place you need to keep your wits about you in places.

    Of course, I used to see people doing in the same in the IFSC and I used to cringe, waving their expensive phones are but telling me that I am not responsible for walking to the train station or that I should "take my chances" is a bit different.


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    #119
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    This is utterly despicable.

    You are telling women in Ireland in 2020 that they should not feel safe walking to work in the morning and implying that doing so is inviting some horrific attack.

    Vile.

    Jayzus. Get off the high horse. I don't think any reasonable person would interpret the suggestion that using good sense to protect your wellbeing is tantamount to saying that women walking in anything in broad daylight are inviting an attack.


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    #120
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    walshb wrote: »
    Grand. So, take your chances so....

    Yes I will thanks. Hopefully I survive.


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    #121
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Again, laughable. We don't live in a country where I need to be worried about walking to work or that my choices will cause "something nasty" to happen. This is extremely rare.

    An absolute joke.

    I've heard of few attacks , one in a park at 7.30am someone walking to work in nearby shops. I can't find it in the national press just local news.

    Might be rare, but it does happen. You just don't hear about it. Lots of stuff doesn't make the news. Maybe some are just more conscious of it.


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