Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's worrying what the people so upset Trump was elected in the first place will do after Trump is reelected.

This is incitement to terrorism, won't look great for Sanders.

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1217111200720400389?s=20

There is seemingly no end of actual criminals that work/worked for Trump and you are upset that a communist works on Sanders campaign?
Edit: or what about all the right wing gun nuts who who were threatening civil war if trump was removed?

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

There is seemingly no end of actual criminals that work/worked for Trump and you are upset that a communist works on Sanders campaign?

I'm not upset, I'm just worried people are going to have a hard time dealing with the future, I'm worried for the presidents safety. The absolute hate from the Dems and the left is scary, they don't want a democracy anymore, you said it, they'd take communism over Trump.

Fonny122

Not a fan of that violence nor am I a fan of Project Veritas who have been caught manufacturing lies so often that it its best to not give them any credence whatsoever.

That said, Trump has also incited politically motivated violence and intimidation (otherwise known a the definition of terrorism) at his rallies, going so far as to tell people to hit others and he will cover the legal fees. It's kinnd of hard to claim a moral high ground or make a complaint if that is the stuff you're supporting, as it comes across less as being against violence, and more so being against violence against one side only.

Billy Mays

Deleted User wrote: »

There is seemingly no end of actual criminals that work/worked for Trump and you are upset that a communist works on Sanders campaign?
Edit: or what about all the right wing gun nuts who who were threatening civil war if trump was removed?

Sure only yesterday a former Trump advisor pled guilty to child sex trafficing and possession of child porn

Outlaw Pete

gizmo wrote: »

There's only one problem. The links I shared from the various agencies do not show the protests from the perspective you claim.

"Various agencies" don't cut it. I am speaking about the MSM and the liberal left at large and they absolutely have been trying to suggest that Sulimani was a war hero and that the people of Iran loved him.

Like I said, I used the word "amplify" for a reason given that MSNBC/CNN had showed Sulimani's funeral on a loop for days, interviewing "mourners" who declared that America would pay a high price, and of course comparing the response to his death to that of Elvis or Princess Diana ... alongside coverage that Trump had illegally killed him, which of course, was all done in a concerted effort to make it appear as if Trump had just killed an esteemed member of the Iranian Government.

The agenda was clear, the motives obvious.

The MSM are starting to respond to the suggestion that they were helping push the narrative of terrorists though, as NBC included the following image on an article and a few hours later removed it:

Which is why I said at the end of my post yesterday that the left will soon have no choice but to admit that the Iranian people did not see Sulimani how they had reported it for over a week. They did their damndest (along with certain democrats in congress of course) to try and push the narrative that Trump had ordered an illegal assassination and it didn't work. The reaction to Trump last night at the game shows that he's not seen (by all Americans at least) how these people wish he was. Your hatred for Donald Trump has to very far to do what they did and it will be remembered for a long time. Especially in November.

I now see the democrats just blocked a resolution to show support to the protestors. Well colour me surprised.


https://twitter.com/GOPLeader/status/1217160400443191297

aloyisious

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not upset, I'm just worried people are going to have a hard time dealing with the future, I'm worried for the presidents safety. The absolute hate from the Dems and the left is scary, they don't want a democracy anymore, you said it, they'd take communism over Trump.

Peculiarly enough, some Trump supporters had a message "I'd rather be Russian than Democrat" on their t-shirts during his 2015 rallies in reference to whom they would vote for. Not exactly MAGA or good for the US to prefer living under Russian government, given that government's, and also its president's, historical roots in communism.

Toeuptony

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not upset, I'm just worried people are going to have a hard time dealing with the future, I'm worried for the presidents safety. The absolute hate from the Dems and the left is scary, they don't want a democracy anymore, you said it, they'd take communism over Trump.

To paraphrase South Park, "The Trump supporters already did it!"

drunkmonkey

aloyisious wrote: »

Peculiarly enough, some Trump supporters had a message "better Russian than Democrat" on their t-shirts during his 2015 rallies in reference to whom they would vote for. Not exactly MAGA or good for the US to prefer living under Russian government, given that government's, and also its president's, historical roots in communism.

I'd vote for Putin before any of the top Dem canidates, there absolute nut jobs from what I've seen of them. Back in the last election the Russians helped the Democrats and they still lost. Leo and Trump could only dream of Putin's approval rating, well Trump might just get there yet.

Toeuptony

Toeuptony wrote: »

To paraphrase South Park, "The Trump supporters already did it!"

30 + years ago they would have been wearing shirts that said beware of reds under the bed.

aloyisious

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Back in the last election the Russians helped the Democrats and they still lost.

Really? Yet neither Don nor the GOP have been using that as an electoral slogan in the current campaign slamming the Dems for having Vlad as a supporter in the last campaign. Was it himself or the Democrat candidate that Don wanted the Russian Govt to help with his call for that Govt to free up Hillary's Emails or did that public request made by Don via the international media just miss your attention?

Itssoeasy

The Donald trump presidency is the political equivalent of the Cleveland browns the last twenty years.

drunkmonkey

They don't need to it's old news. They have Uncle Joe snookered, Bernie and the Apache are tearing themselves apart and Nacy is going to shaft the pair of them with the Impeachment to help Joe. All Trump needs to do is sit back and watch. I'd love to see someone give him good run but the left has become such a dumping ground for what's wrong with the modern world they'll never find a candidate they all can agree on.

Fonny122

DubInMeath wrote: »

30 + years ago they would have been wearing shirts that said beware of reds under the bed.

I would love to know what their fathers who likely fought in WW2 (and then came home to undertake some of the biggest social projects in US history) would think of that photo.

One example is FDRs New Deal, one of the most successful policies in US history, and which was catigsted as socialist. His response was to say that the New Deal was about “the adjustment of burdens, the help of the needy, the protection of the weak, the liberation of the exploited and the genuine protection of the people’s property.” As a result, he said, “we have earned the hatred of entrenched greed…. ut now … they seek the restoration of their selfish power.”

And indeed, perhaps the loudest critic trying to paint it in a bad light (Al Smith) had said this only a few years earlier: “The cry of socialism has been patented by the powerful interests that desire to put a damper on progressive legislation. Is that cry of socialism anything new? Not to a man of my experience. I have heard it raised by reactionary elements and the Republican party … for over a quarter century.”

Those two quotes are from 1936 and 1928, respectively.

Gbear

Fonny122 wrote: »

Not a fan of that violence nor am I a fan of Project Veritas who have been caught manufacturing lies so often that it its best to not give them any credence whatsoever.

That said, Trump has also incited politically motivated violence and intimidation (otherwise known a the definition of terrorism) at his rallies, going so far as to tell people to hit others and he will cover the legal fees. It's kinnd of hard to claim a moral high ground or make a complaint if that is the stuff you're supporting, as it comes across less as being against violence, and more so being against violence against one side only.

This is the nature of fascism.

Someone else mentioned that Trump fans should've been a fan of Soleimani, and that's true, they should've been, except that their positions are not based on principle, but on identity.

Conservatism in general is an ideology that is based on being part of a particular in group, and maintaining the status quo for that group, and in the Republican party we see a radicalised version of that seldom seen outside of third world countries, or Fascist regimes from the middle of the last century.

That is why the "what about if Obama did that" arguments have no effect on these people. They don't care about arguments. Their position isn't based on them. It's based on identity.

It's why far right theocrats are largely in agreement with the kinds of policies outlined in Shariah law, but still use it as a boogeyman to fearmonger against Muslims.

They can make up any old ****e about the Democrats coming from your babies' blood, lying about the awful things that Trump or those in his adminstration have done and pretending like they haven't, or trying to spin what they've done as a positive, because they follow the hierarchy first, and then construct arguments to buttress it afterwards.

The entire approach of the far right is to lie, project, and obfusticate the truth and they've been using the same approach, often using the exact same arguments, at least since we've been able to recognise such a political cohort.
The ultimate goal is to bypass cognitive dissonance by changing the perception between a set of ideas to be about two warring tribes.

Fonny122

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Donald trump presidency is the political equivalent of the Cleveland browns the last twenty years.

Only if they actively sought out Vontaze Burfict and Rae Carruth personality types during the combine interview process on their way to all those double digit losing seasons.

duploelabs

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/11420

“The American people deserve the truth, and the Constitution demands a trial. The House will now proceed with a vote on transmitting the articles of impeachment and naming impeachment managers on Wednesday, January 15.

“The President and the Senators will be held accountable.”

drunkmonkey

They won't get anywhere near the Truth, Trump won't even turn up he's in Switzerland for the start. He wanted it dismissed, he'll have to accept it goes on a little longer but he'll get his Not Guilty.

Puts Joe & Co in a bit of a position if it plays out that way. We can hear all about the Truth then.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not upset, I'm just worried people are going to have a hard time dealing with the future, I'm worried for the presidents safety. The absolute hate from the Dems and the left is scary, they don't want a democracy anymore, you said it, they'd take communism over Trump.

Absolute rubbish. Trump and the Republicans are actually taking apart the usa's democracy as we speak. The widespread corruption, gerrymandering etc. Its appalling to watch. If I was American I'd be far more worried about violence from the right wingers and white supremacists than the likes of antifa.

Leroy42

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not upset, I'm just worried people are going to have a hard time dealing with the future, I'm worried for the presidents safety. The absolute hate from the Dems and the left is scary, they don't want a democracy anymore, you said it, they'd take communism over Trump.

Where is this fear coming from? The majority of domestic terrorism has been undertaken by the far right, yet you are scared of the left?

Talking about letting fear of the unknown override your fear of the known. You know you face a threat from the far right, hell there are militias whose stated position is to attack the government if they don't like it, yet you are more worried about some made up problem?

Itssoeasy

The House of Representatives have released some of the information that they got from Lev Parnas and his lawyer and boy does it look like lev kept the receipts. It seems the former Ukrainian ambassador was having her movements tracked an and there is one photo of a napkin with notes written on it about Biden and the investigation.

drunkmonkey

Leroy42 wrote: »

Where is this fear coming from? The majority of domestic terrorism has been undertaken by the far right, yet you are scared of the left?

Not all Terrorists use guns, it's more the damage they can do to society, I'd be fairly easygoing live and let live but I just can't get on board with some of the woke agenda and that's 100% coming from the left.

drunkmonkey

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The House of Representatives have released some of the information that they got from Lev Parnas and his lawyer and boy does it look like lev kept the receipts. It seems the former Ukrainian ambassador was having her movements tracked an and there is one photo of a napkin with notes written on it about Biden and the investigation.

So if there was corruption by some of the Democrats and Trump was trying to verify it, how does that make him the bad guy especially if there was one of these deeply corrupt individuals running for president.
Is there enough evidence for a criminal case against Biden when Trump is found not guilty.
It's not like it's fake news, some Democrats have a case to answer about Ukraine.

hotmail.com

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Not all Terrorists use guns, it's more the damage they can do to society, I'd be fairly easygoing live and let live but I just can't get on board with some of the woke agenda and that's 100% coming from the left.

It's just cringey when people use the term woke. And when people talk about the Left in America. There is no mainstream Left there.

Itssoeasy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So if there was corruption by some of the Democrats and Trump was trying to verify it, how does that make him the bad guy especially if there was one of these deeply corrupt individuals running for president.
Is there enough evidence for a criminal case against Biden when Trump is found not guilty.
It's not like it's fake news, some Democrats have a case to answer about Ukraine.

So not addressing my post then. Okay.

droidus

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Not all Terrorists use guns, it's more the damage they can do to society, I'd be fairly easygoing live and let live but I just can't get on board with some of the woke agenda and that's 100% coming from the left.

50 people killed in extremist terror in the US in 2018 and "All of the extremist killings in the US in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism" whilst the Trump administration has so far done little to meet the domestic pressure to combat the far-right and defunded programs intended to stop the radicalization of young white people.

gizmo

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

"Various agencies" don't cut it. I am speaking about the MSM and the liberal left at large and they absolutely have been trying to suggest that Sulimani was a war hero and that the people of Iran loved him.

The various agencies, the ones I listed, are the news outlets most widely recognised as the leading left-leaning MSM outlets, especially in the context of political and world affairs. To pretend otherwise is either further disingenuity or grossly intellectually dishonest.

Furthermore you're again changing your accusation, you did not claim, in either your original post or your follow up, that they were trying to suggest that Soleimani was a war hero. You made various claims regarding both the existence and then nature of their coverage of the protests, both of which could be easily disproved by simply opening the links I provided.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Like I said, I used the word "amplify" for a reason given that MSNBC/CNN had showed Sulimani's funeral on a loop for days, interviewing "mourners" who declared that America would pay a high price, and of course comparing the response to his death to that of Elvis or Princess Diana ... alongside coverage that Trump had illegally killed him, which of course, was all done in a concerted effort to make it appear as if Trump had just killed an esteemed member of the Iranian Government.

Yes, they covered the events as they occurred. They covered the funeral, then they covered the anti-government protests over the weekend, then the large scale deployment of anti-riot police in Tehran yesterday and now, in the case of CNN, their headline analysis piece, "Is this Iran's 'Chernobyl moment'?", again focuses the blame squarely on the government and examines whether the protests could be the tipping point for revolution against the regime.

As for the legality of the matter, until the US provides evidence of the actively developing or imminent attacks they originally claimed, the strike against Soleimani remains in a position of dubious legality under Article 51 of the UN Charter. The problem with maintaining this rather low standard of justification is evident when the same Article is subsequently misused by your adversary, as Iran proved when they applied it in order to justify the launching of their own missile strike days later.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The MSM are starting to respond to the suggestion that they were helping push the narrative of terrorists though, as NBC included the following image on an article and a few hours later removed it

Evidently they've responded by using a photo which looks like it was taken at Soleimani's funeral. The tweet, with the offending image, linking to the article can be found here.

drunkmonkey

hotmail.com wrote: »

It's just cringey when people use the term woke. And when people talk about the Left in America. There is no mainstream Left there.

Hopefully it stays that way for another 4 more years. They are living in a somewhat free society, were unfortunately not and it's only going to get worse here until we have our Trump moment.

hotmail.com

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Hopefully it stays that way for another 4 more years. They are living in a somewhat free society, were unfortunately not and it's only going to get worse here until we have our Trump moment.

Americans being free must be the greatest US propaganda nonsense they believe in.

aloyisious

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So if there was corruption by some of the Democrats and Trump was trying to verify it, how does that make him the bad guy especially if there was one of these deeply corrupt individuals running for president.
Is there enough evidence for a criminal case against Biden when Trump is found not guilty.
It's not like it's fake news, some Democrats have a case to answer about Ukraine.

As stated before, if you're president, you get your AG to make a presentable legal case and hand it to your Sec State to provide to the Ukraine President and Govt so it can launch a formal corruption investigation into the Biden's and Burisma. You act in a way which is fully compliant with your lawful obligations under US law.

One thing you don't do is send your personal lawyer on a personal non-governmental mission to Ukraine to investigate the Biden's, to supplant the official US ambassador to Ukraine with your EU ambassador for the same purpose and let your personal lawyer character-assassinate the official US representative, the US ambassador, to Ukraine by lying to Ukraine's president, AG and Govt.

If you think I'm mistaken about the way Don, as US President, should have handled the matter of getting a corruption case into activities in Ukraine of US citizens handled by the proper people there the so be it. Remember while considering this, that the new Ukraine President was elected out of the blue, same as Don, on the promise of cleaning up corruption in his country.

Edit: please forgive me if you think I'm haranguing you. It's just that once I started following Don Trump's road to the White House, I was surprised by the way a large proportion of the GOP and the US seems to have swallowed everything he said as gospel. He's a man who path is as crooked as possible.

drunkmonkey

You do realise the Ukrainians had already the evidence and were a couple of years into this case before it blew up on Trump.
The Ukrainians couldn't get the Trump administration to listen, that doesn't surprise me as they were looking for their money back.
There is enough for a case against Biden and more Democrats but it's explosive. It required a tactical approach especially as there were Democrats involved.