Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

listermint

Well im assuming big decisions have already been made.

All im seeing is videos of troop deployments and large scale equipment deployments across the US, looks like national guard. Chicago and New York being key locations for these movements to.

Sean.3516

I don't see an issue with Trump simply saying that he's going to re-assess his plan after 15 days. Shouldn't we be constantly re-assessing as we get more information?

I think it's wrong to dismiss anyone who mentions the economy right now as a heartless bean-counter who cares more about money than about lives. It's naive to suggest that our lives are not intertwined with the economy. They absolutely are.

Is one more likely to kill themselves before or after the business or career that was their livelihood has been destroyed? Research suicide rates during the Great Depression.

Let's not pretend that there isn't a cost to fighting the Chinese Virus. There is.

I'm not saying to do nothing and let the Virus have it's way. I'm saying we should constantly be assessing our plan and consider the economic impact as more information comes in.

Leroy42

Yeah, you lost me at Chinese Virus. Is this a new virus that has come about? I have done little research on that virus, as most people as already concerned with Coronavirus.

Perhaps you could send us some links and details of this new threat.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Less of the "Chinese Virus" type stuff please. As the charter states:

Threads (and posts) that are not based on serious and legitimate Political discussion will be deleted without warning

Use correct terms, such as Coronavirus or COVID-19.

Thanks

Christy42

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I don't see an issue with Trump simply saying that he's going to re-assess his plan after 15 days. Shouldn't we be constantly re-assessing as we get more information?

I think it's wrong to dismiss anyone who mentions the economy right now as a heartless bean-counter who cares more about money than about lives. It's naive to suggest that our lives are not intertwined with the economy. They absolutely are.

Is one more likely to kill themselves before or after the business or career that was their livelihood has been destroyed? Research suicide rates during the Great Depression.

Let's not pretend that there isn't a cost to fighting the Chinese Virus. There is.

I'm not saying to do nothing and let the Virus have it's way. I'm saying we should constantly be assessing our plan and consider the economic impact as more information comes in.

He is dismissing the severity of the Corona virus (I believe you have an autocorrect issue in there?).

He is going about it in a it will probably be grand in a few days approach which is why you are getting plenty of people thinking they are tougher than the virus. This will only increase the spread especially when they are still behind everyone else in terms of testing). We may never the cost of this in the US as many deaths may simply not be recorded if the people weren't tested.

Leroy42

Isn't it a tacit admission that they have no real ability to do anything about it. They they so totally failed to prepare that at this stage it is so rampant that in effect they have little downside to trying out the 'herd immunity' path?

That is my reading of it, cloaked of course behind the line that the economy is more important.

They have so messed this up that in reality there is not much they can do to stop it at this point and the only way, a complete and total shutdown for at least two weeks, is not worth it.

They are throwing out this line now to gauge the reaction to it. But it is deeply irresponsible, as it makes it sound like the issue is not really all that serious and everything will be fine in 2 weeks.

eire4

Christy42 wrote: »

He is dismissing the severity of the Corona virus (I believe you have an autocorrect issue in there?).

He is going about it in a it will probably be grand in a few days approach which is why you are getting plenty of people thinking they are tougher than the virus. This will only increase the spread especially when they are still behind everyone else in terms of testing). We may never the cost of this in the US as many deaths may simply not be recorded if the people weren't tested.

Which I have to wonder was that part of his calculations earlier. Hope it will fade away and if there is less testing done in the US the numbers will be lower so once again he can declare victory. Sadly the virus has not played ball with him and as a result the impact will likely be all the worse in the US as a direct result of his actions and lack of actions.

VinLieger

Leroy42 wrote: »

Isn't it a tacit admission that they have no real ability to do anything about it. They they so totally failed to prepare that at this stage it is so rampant that in effect they have little downside to trying out the 'herd immunity' path?

That is my reading of it, cloaked of course behind the line that the economy is more important.

They have so messed this up that in reality there is not much they can do to stop it at this point and the only way, a complete and total shutdown for at least two weeks, is not worth it.

They are throwing out this line now to gauge the reaction to it. But it is deeply irresponsible, as it makes it sound like the issue is not really all that serious and everything will be fine in 2 weeks.

Dont forget if they did actually choose to go this way the entire globe would immediately shut down any and all travel to and from them for a loooong time

Sean.3516

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, you lost me at Chinese Virus. Is this a new virus that has come about? I have done little research on that virus, as most people as already concerned with Coronavirus.

Perhaps you could send us some links and details of this new threat.

Yes, the official name is COVID-19/Coronavirus, however I'm in favour of calling it the Chinese Virus on a colloquial basis in order to highlight the fact the The People's Republic of China has inflicted this thing on the world and ought to hang it's head in shame and be criticised vigorously by the international community.

We know for a fact that this thing has originated from the vile "wet markets" in China where exotic wild animals are cooped up in cages piled on top of each other. It's no wonder that COVID-19 spread from bats to pangolins before it came to humans when you've essentially got all kinds of animals crapping on top of each other in these cage towers.

These markets have been the source of numerous outbreaks in the past. The Asian Flu in the 50s, SARS and now COVID-19 and China has failed each time to permanently shut down these markets.

China is a communist dictatorship that has no problem running over student protestors with tanks. Couldn't they have spent an ounce of that authoritarianism in shutting down these markets?

As if this wasn't enough, once COVID-19 got out, China sat on this thing for a good month and a half, deliberately suppressing information, jailing scientists who talked about the Virus and even telling the WHO that this thing couldn't spread to humans which the WHO believed at the time. They were more concerned for the propaganda implications for the regime than saving lives and God knows how many people will die both from the Virus and because the entire world economy has to shut down to stop this thing spreading.

A University of Southampton study found that 95% of Coronavirus infections could have been mitigated against had China taken action just 3 weeks before they eventually did. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8116481/Coronavirus-infections-China-slashed-95-measures-taken-three-weeks-earlier.html So spare me the indignation about how people aren't patronising Chinese restraints as much they did before. No bloody wonder.

Whether this was negligence or malicious intent, doesn't matter. China is at fault.

COVID-19 is yet another Chinese Virus.

Sean.3516

Christy42 wrote: »

He is going about it in a it will probably be grand in a few days approach which is why you are getting plenty of people thinking they are tougher than the virus. This will only increase the spread especially when they are still behind everyone else in terms of testing). We may never the cost of this in the US as many deaths may simply not be recorded if the people weren't tested.

I agree with alot of what you're saying here. I never once suggested that Trump's performance was stellar, only that constantly re-assessing as new information comes each day is the right thing to do and economic implications should be a part of that.

Trump was right to shut down travel from China as early as he did. He then wasted the next few weeks when he should have been producing masks, respirators, testing kit and increasing hospital capacity. He was wrong to downplay the Virus and call it "a flu". I think he's been forced into treating it seriously over the last week which is a good thing. He still has no coherent plan however, he's merely reacting.

As for criticism of the federal system, isn't it a good thing that Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo didn't need Trump's permission to start locking down their states?

Leroy42

VinLieger wrote: »

Dont forget if they did actually choose to go this way the entire globe would immediately shut down any and all travel to and from them for a loooong time

But does Trump see that as an issue? He can sell that to his base all day long. He has been actively retreated from the world already, so having the world shut the door is not going to be seen as a problem.

Get manufacturing back, jobs back (lets not mention the massive fall off in trade lost).

Leroy42

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I agree with alot of what you're saying here. I never once suggested that Trump's performance was stellar, only that constantly re-assessing as new information comes each day is the right thing to do and economic implications should be a part of that.

Trump was right to shut down travel from China as early as he did. He then wasted the next few weeks when he should have been producing masks, respirators, testing kit and increasing hospital capacity. He was wrong to downplay the Virus and call it "a flu". I think he's been forced into treating it seriously over the last week which is a good thing. He still has no coherent plan however, he's merely reacting.

As for criticism of the federal system, isn't it a good thing that Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo didn't need Trump's permission to start locking down their states?

When did Trump shut down all travel from China?

As for the federal system, what is the point of POTUS if he has no ability to act when the country needs it? I would suggest that he has the same power of the Irish president, except that he actually has the power to make things far worse. I agree that he should step aside and let those actually capable of doing the job do the job. Unfortunately he seems incapable of putting the country ahead of himself.

Water John

I think they are on Day 8 of the 15 days that Pence keeps talking about.
It's a delusion that things will slow down at that point.
If the hospitals get overwhelmed, only one person will be blamed and that's Trump.
Trump always look for someone to blame but the people will too, if it's not handled correctly.

eire4

Water John wrote: »

I think they are on Day 8 of the 15 days that Pence keeps talking about.
It's a delusion that things will slow down at that point.
If the hospitals get overwhelmed, only one person will be blamed and that's Trump.
Trump always look for someone to blame but the people will too, if it's not handled correctly.

IMHO the storm has only just begun in the US. They still are not getting much testing done and so they really have no idea how many people have the virus plus for the past 2 months anybody who was poor and had no or was under insured which in the US is about 85 million people were going to work even when sick because they cannot afford not to go to work and they cannot afford to go to the doctor. Then of course you have the selfish, reckless and irresponsible behaviour of many US politicians be it the president or others basically dismissing covid 19 as no biggie in public again and again.

Christy42

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I agree with alot of what you're saying here. I never once suggested that Trump's performance was stellar, only that constantly re-assessing as new information comes each day is the right thing to do and economic implications should be a part of that.

Trump was right to shut down travel from China as early as he did. He then wasted the next few weeks when he should have been producing masks, respirators, testing kit and increasing hospital capacity. He was wrong to downplay the Virus and call it "a flu". I think he's been forced into treating it seriously over the last week which is a good thing. He still has no coherent plan however, he's merely reacting.

As for criticism of the federal system, isn't it a good thing that Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo didn't need Trump's permission to start locking down their states?

If orders come from on high it makes it easier for lower level areas to make this decision.

Are they reevaluating? Trump seems like he wants to reopen. Best for whom when they make that decision? Again the impression being given out isn't reevaluating as just wanting to open things and get his stock market up before November

Outlaw Pete

Can't believe these democrats (and a few republicans) are still nitpicking over the economic relief package on offer. The hell that the Wuhan coronavirus has resulted in needs addressing now and any politician voting against their governments' attempts at alleviating the devastation needs to be called out.

Sen. John Kennedy did just that succinctly early today ...


https://twitter.com/EM_KA_17/status/1242145487446331394

Christy42

It isn't nitpicking. They want an actual relief package. Not a brucy bonus for corporations called something entirely different.

The man who takes no responsibility wants to be in charge of a massive business slush fund. Shockingly people think that is a terrible idea.

As an aside this is the stuff Republicans should be fighting against but time and time again I see little care for those who will suffer under the virus. A minor elected official but still an elected official who should know some compassion. Side point:this man says he is all in but has access to healthcare and testing many do not. He ain't all in.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1242245135129346050

gizmo

I for one am shocked that many Democrats (and a few Republicans) would reject a package which does not attach explicit conditions to federal aid being given to large corporations.

Shocked.


Senate fails to advance coronavirus stimulus bill for second time in two days

Democrats have also raised a laundry list of objections to provisions in the bill, with Schumer noting they were still discussing aid for corporations.

A source familiar with the GOP bill text also said Republicans are “refusing to add strong worker protections” and have included language requiring companies keep employees “to the extent possible.”

Democrats worry the language is vague enough that corporations could take federal help and still fire workers. They also want strong restrictions on corporations who take federal help, but the source said the GOP bill included “very weak” stock buyback restrictions that could be waived by Mnuchin.

Itssoeasy

Hopefully that poor women's words will make a difference and trumps bull**** won't be taken as truth.

I saw a few hours ago that one of the students that was on the beaches in Florida last week has tested positive. How many people was that student in close contact with ?

I thought he began with saying it was hoax... not after a month of talking about it

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Three people have been banned, two have been carded, and a bunch of posts have been deleted. Despite numerous interventions from mods in recent times, there is a constituency of posters who continue to ignore the charter and dole out abuse to one and other, and to public figures. If you can't have a civil discussion, your access will be removed.

To quote a mod warning from a previous iteration of this thread:

Despite a very explicit mod warning in the OP, we're back to a situation where far too many people taking childish swipes at each other, with "It's typical of people like you..." remarks. That's not what this forum is for.

If you think someone's an idiot, ignore them. If they really are an idiot, it should be obvious to any reasonable person reading the thread. And they don't need the thread being dragged into the gutter by yet another smart alek stating the obvious.

pixelburp

Original post was removed, but I think it's worth reiterating to highlight the danger in poorly chosen words from political leaders:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-woman-husband-died-chloroquine-warns-not-to-trust-trump-2020-3?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T

First and foremost, that's a tragic story of a desperate couple - one of whom has now lost their love - and you can read the pure mammalian panic going on there, but I winced at reading this line in particular:

Banner Health said he and his wife ingested a version of the chemical that's used to clean aquariums.

That in no way should diminish the sadness at how this couple's options felt reduced to the point of taking a chance from a passing comment by Trump. I'd say this should be a silver bullet to the riposte that Trump never killed anyone - but I can already hear the "personal responsibility" crowd dismissing the couple.

This is the power of the huckster, or confidence man writ large. He persuades the gullible and desperate to believe in him. Doesn't matter if it's people panicking about Corona, moribund Rust Belt towns, or those felt "left behind" by the shifting economy. Man's a con artist and a dangerous archetype to be in charge during an existential crisis like this.

looksee

It is hard to believe that a person doing much worse than passing on facebook cures - promoting an irrelevant drug - as a cure for Corvid 19 - is still being allowed to stand at a microphone and spread his misleading, inaccurate, dangerous quackery. Shortly after a death from taking Trump's pet notion - chloroquin - Trump tells the American public in one of his brainless, meandering waffles that the drug is to be distributed in New York.

If someone made a film of this carry on - and no doubt they will eventually - it would have to be a comedy as it is in no way believable as a drama.

Christy42

pixelburp wrote: »

Original post was removed, but I think it's worth reiterating to highlight the danger in poorly chosen words from political leaders:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-woman-husband-died-chloroquine-warns-not-to-trust-trump-2020-3?utm_source=reddit.com&r=US&IR=T

First and foremost, that's a tragic story of a desperate couple - one of whom has now lost their love - and you can read the pure mammalian panic going on there, but I winced at reading this line in particular:



That in no way should diminish the sadness at how this couple's options felt reduced to the point of taking a chance from a passing comment by Trump. I'd say this should be a silver bullet to the riposte that Trump never killed anyone - but I can already hear the "personal responsibility" crowd dismissing the couple.

This is the power of the huckster, or confidence man writ large. He persuades the gullible and desperate to believe in him. Doesn't matter if it's people panicking about Corona, moribund Rust Belt towns, or those felt "left behind" by the shifting economy. Man's a con artist and a dangerous archetype to be in charge during an existential crisis like this.

Anyone giving phony medical advice to the public should be taken to court imo. That includes all fake cures being sold by homeopaths but none have the reach of the president.

everlast75

Christy42 wrote: »

Anyone giving phony medical advice to the public should be taken to court imo. That includes all fake cures being sold by homeopaths but none have the reach of the president.

What about the President saying windmills give you cancer?

pixelburp

Christy42 wrote: »

Anyone giving phony medical advice to the public should be taken to court imo. That includes all fake cures being sold by homeopaths but none have the reach of the president.

When the dust settles and the woman has had time to grieve for her lost husband, you'd wonder if she'd have the makings of a Civil Suit. Of course, I forget the term, but there are those who'd claim the sitting US President cannot be charged, and cannot commit crimes so who knows if she'd even get anywhere...

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

What about the President saying windmills give you cancer?

I mean horrifically wrong but not on the same level as saying that this drug cures you. Both bad but saying a drug that can kill will cure you without proper medical back up is far far worse. As ever the President has outdone himself.

campo

looksee wrote: »

It is hard to believe that a person doing much worse than passing on facebook cures - promoting an irrelevant drug - as a cure for Corvid 19 - is still being allowed to stand at a microphone and spread his misleading, inaccurate, dangerous quackery. Shortly after a death from taking Trump's pet notion - chloroquin - Trump tells the American public in one of his brainless, meandering waffles that the drug is to be distributed in New York.

If someone made a film of this carry on - and no doubt they will eventually - it would have to be a comedy as it is in no way believable as a drama.

The movie was already made it was called Idiocracy and yes I believe it was a comedy at the time but I now believe the writers were actually time travellers and they were making a documentary

Water John

Only looked at a few parts of Trump's presser, couldn't handle it. Trump flip flopping every day, depending on who he has seen on TV.
Trump and Pence are hoping by Day 15, which is a week away that things will improve. He's taking his foot off the pedal already. There is a battle between the medical and economy advisors and Trump is hopping from one side to the other.

Leroy42

He is simply using the daily press briefing as mini rallies.

He is pontificating about issues he has no understanding of.