Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

sid waddell

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I dunno with actual footage of the earth available to everyone, its tiring to debate if it is flat or not.

It's definitely flat and I don't care what you say. I don't care if you've seen pictures taken from space. They're fake, everything's fake. We know the earth is flat. Just take a look around you. It's flat. I've been on top of mountains and looked down at the ground below. It's definitely flat. I know, trust me, it just is. Trust me. The notion the earth is round is a giant Jewish conspiracy.

Seriously. Ban the effing lot of them. Fascists aren't here to debate, they're only here to troll and glory in human misery and the deliberate infliction of human misery.

sid waddell

Penn wrote: »

I still don't think the reporters should start shouting at or talking over Trump during the briefings, because that's not going to matter to Trump. He'll still refuse to answer the questions, he won't retract anything he says, and he'd probably just walk away. Then that gives him just cause to attack the media further, call them rude and nasty (and actually have video clips to justify saying that), and he'll just fill the press briefings with Fox, Brietbart and OAN.

Attacking him at the press briefings, as much as many of us would want to see it, will not change anything for the better. Let him hang himself with his own words as he currently and continuously does. Last night he implied NY are low on masks etc because people working at the hospitals are stealing them. Don't question him on that statement, just report his statement. Spread his own words and let his own words do the damage to him. Some might wave it off as Trump speak, or trying to put a positive spin on things, or he drank too much apple juice or something, but his own words will do more damage to him than reporters trying to shout a question at him that he's simply not going to answer anyway. All that will do is allow him to claim the media is biased against him, trying to take him down, and lying about his incompetence/willful ignorance.

Report his own words, because his own words are worse than what a reporter can shout at him.

None of that works with a fascist. It simply gives in to them. You cannot and should not modify your behaviour, what should be normal journalistic behaviour, because "oh, 4D chess" or because you fear being seen as "uncivil", which is a Republican canard which means "shut up, black person, shut up, woman".

Democrats and media continually modify their behaviour to be more deferent, ie. going along with the bully, based on what they "think" Trump wants them to do. It's all bull****. We saw it with the impeachment.

"Deference" and "civility" is code for giving in to white supremacism.

Penn

sid waddell wrote: »

None of that works with a fascist. It simply gives in to them. You cannot and should not modify your behaviour, what should be normal journalistic behaviour, because "oh, 4D chess" or because you fear being seen as "uncivil", which is a Republican canard which means "shut up, black person, shut up, woman".

Democrats and media continually modify their behaviour to be more deferent, ie. going along with the bully, based on what they "think" Trump wants them to do. It's all bull****. We saw it with the impeachment.

"Deference" and "civility" is code for giving in to white supremacism.

I'm not saying they shouldn't question him on these things, just that they shouldn't get into screaming matches with him, because that gives him an out. That gives him an excuse, and his followers will buy it. It's playing into his hands. It's not about 4D Chess or civility, it's simply about recognising what he's trying to do.

The biggest thing the reporters at these briefings need to do is remain civil, but ask the questions. If he dodges a question, the next reporter should ask the same question again. If he lies, challenge him on it. Ask for his sources.

But getting into a shouting match with him, what will that accomplish? It will turn people away from the media, and he'll just remove their credentials and only allow in reporters that will praise him.

Trump's own words, as per the litany of comments he's made the last few months downplaying the crisis work against him, and show him up for his own failures. A shouting match between a reporter and Trump will result in Trump still not answering, still attacking the media (as he already does), and either walking away or having the reporter removed.

They absolutely need to ask the hard questions, put him under pressure and make sure he knows he's accountable for his words and actions in this crisis. Make sure he knows the buck stops with him whether he wants it to or not. But a shouting match with him, what do you think realistically will happen after?

Not having a shouting match with him isn't letting him off the hook, it's letting him hang himself, because he just cannot help himself from showing how much of a failure he is when really tested. That will do far more damage to him than anything, especially with the election coming up. All the wrong stuff he says will be used against him in campaign ads, as they already are. Shouting matches with reporters will be used in his campaign ads to show how unfair the media are to him and therefore they can't be trusted.

I know which I'd prefer to happen.

Christy42

They are civil. He was set up with a massive softball question of what do you say to scared Americans and he lost the plot because it wasn't kind enough.

You don't beat them by appeasement imo. That just leaves them going well of course we were right no one stood against us.

If they do ask awkward questions repeatedly they won't be there the next week and it will just be Fox and the American conservative.

Leroy42

They need to be more surgical in their questioning. They all know what is going on, they all know that at least reporter is going to ask him the "everybody says you are great, do you agree with them" question. But the others should stop this silly game of everyone trying to deal with a totally separate point and actually try to find the truth. IMO, they are all too busy trying to find their own 'gotcha' moment that they have forgotten that the real point is to get answers.

So ask him why he has changed from zero in a few days to 100k+ deaths is a success? Ask him why he floated the idea of mid April reopening but then changed his ming?

And then when he avoids the question, next journalist asks him again. And the next. And then the next day, and the day after. Polite, concise but looking for answers. Why does he think the peak will be in two weeks. What data set are they using? What are their projections for different parts of the country? Will there be sufficient medical supplies and medical staff based on the projections?

pixelburp

Trump can't handle even the softest of tossed questions; I said it back with Hurricane Maria, but humanitarian and existential crisis should NOT be a tricky path to navigate for ordinary, semi-competent politicians; they should be easy wins. Trump should be sailing through this crisis, a paragon of leadership. Ih sure, you can balls up your timing or dither too long. It's arguable that our own government stalled in responding, especially to those returning from Italy at the outset. But once the axe dropped, our lot made decisions and have acted decisively. Coupled with an open, fact based communications policy where everyone knows the lie of the land. To the extent where we're beating the projections AFAIK.

What does the US instead have? A man who just argues. Argues. Argues. Talks about about ratings and contradicts himself with each breath. One minute talking about how he knew it was pandemic before everyone else (like an insecure brat jealous about a effin' VIRUS stealing the limelight). The next minute, talking about how they don't need as many ventilators until they do. Yes, states have the ultimate power but it's through the Presidents decisions that these states find themselves literally competing against each other, in the absence of Federal action. Lordy, here comes the conspiracy, but maybe this is the long game: the States Rights crowd ensuring that by riding the crisis they can further erode the trust and legitimacy of Washington.

And that's the ultimate sickener. Trump is a horrible, decrepit human being but as John Oliver pointed out: those who would argue the aged might volunteer themselves for death rather than risk the economy - they have revealed the truest form of American Capitalism in its ultimate, twisted form. Republicanism has become a literal Death Cult. Maybe not utterly mainstream but it's there through Glen Beck or the Lt. Governor of Texas. The word "Fascism" may be thrown around a little too frequently, but it's right there in Umberto Eco's famous treatise on the principles of Ur-Fascism:

Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

People should be happy to die, not just willing. But PROUD to throw themselves to the charnel houses rather than endanger the American economy. There's no defending that, yet people would be surprised that Bernie Sanders has become a popular figure? On a daily basis I find myself wondering if the United States can last much longer in its current form. IT won't change by degrees so it's going to taking a seismic event to shake it. Is Corona America's?

Runaways

Here he is being politely and gently challenged on his own direct quotes from only Friday. And he’s saying he never said that and then says the media twists his words. I do actually think he knows what he’s doing when he does this. It’s right within the narcissist playbook.

https://twitter.com/truefactsstated/status/1244401546395373569?s=21

banie01

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

.

By the way, note how Obama says at the beginning (the date was April 27th, 2009 I believe) that while the emerging cases of Swine flu were concerning they were "not a cause for alarm". Well, 12 months later over 12,500 people were dead from it.

How many Americans have died from Covid-19 in the 14 days since Trump's Volte Face on the 17th of March?

How many will have died by the time 28 days from then has passed?
From the day he announced that he has known for months that Covid-19 was going to be a pandemic?

Months that he knew, yet his media messaging was completely different?
Months that he knew, yet didn't prepare and by that failure has bankrupted future generations of Americans?

banie01

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hitler brought the German unemployment rate from 30% to near zero during his reign.

Sure wasn't he a tremendous leader altogether.

Loads of similarities between the construction of the autocratic state in germany to the one trump is presiding over currently

Hitler managed something Trump didn't though...
He was awarded Time's man of the year

Ergo Hitler is better than Trump!

BonnieSituation

Runaways wrote: »

Here he is being politely and gently challenged on his own direct quotes from only Friday. And he’s saying he never said that and then says the media twists his words. I do actually think he knows what he’s doing when he does this. It’s right within the narcissist playbook.

https://twitter.com/truefactsstated/status/1244401546395373569?s=21

That's Jim Diamond from CNN, he passed back to the PBS reporter first - to ensure she got to ask Trump her second question given he barracked her first one - before asking his question there.

hetuzozaho

I enjoyed this Question and Answer the other night. Just reading the transcript there again, great that they are online.

Q Mr. President, on the stockpile of supplies for a pandemic: Yesterday, from the podium, you blamed your predecessor, saying that when you arrived as President, you said, quote, “We took over an empty shelf.” You’ve been President now for more than three years. Why didn’t you and your administration fill that shelf?

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, I did. We did fill it twice. We filled it twice and we’ve been distributing that for — for literally a year. We’ve been —

Q So why are we in this position, I guess Americans are asking?

THE PRESIDENT: — filling out — we’ve been — nice question, Peter. Thank you very much. We’ve been filling it out and we’ve been filling that stockpile many, many times. It’s been filled many, many times.

And now what we’re doing is something different because I think it’s better. We’d fill it so it comes from wherever the point of manufacture or whatever is — we fill it and then we go — now it’s full — now we take it and we distribute it around.

Now, what we’re doing is, we have an emergency — we’re saying, “Go direct. Go direct. Go direct.” We fill it only where necessary. But now we’re trying to go direct. So they drop it off in New York or they drop it off in Michigan, they drop it off in Virginia, wherever it may be — Florida. Well, Florida is getting a lot — a lot of things. And we’re finding it’s a much better system. But we’ve filled and we’ve stockpiled many, many times. Yeah, we ended up with an empty shelf.

Just to note, no MSM involved, watched it live and this is the transcript from https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-13/

Another thing I love about his briefings is when he says "look at my statement", referring to a Tweet

BonnieSituation

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I enjoyed this Question and Answer the other night. Just reading the transcript there again, great that they are online.



Just to note, no MSM involved, watched it live and this is the transcript from https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-13/

Another thing I love about his briefings is when he says "look at my statement", referring to a Tweet

What language is he supposed to be speaking there?

It always mesmerises me just how bad a speaker he is and it becomes much clearer when you read it rather than listen to it.

Penn

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What language is he supposed to be speaking there?

It always mesmerises me just how bad a speaker he is and it becomes much clearer when you read it rather than listen to it.

He's going to be calling in to Fox & Friends this morning, where he always goes on long rambles even worse than his briefings or rallies. Will be interesting to see what he comes out with this morning.

VinLieger

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What language is he supposed to be speaking there?

It always mesmerises me just how bad a speaker he is and it becomes much clearer when you read it rather than listen to it.

This is where the mental illness discussion comes back as if you look at anything from the early 90s he was perfectly coherent albeit still a narcisistic douche

Toeuptony

sid waddell wrote: »

It's definitely flat and I don't care what you say. I don't care if you've seen pictures taken from space. They're fake, everything's fake. We know the earth is flat. Just take a look around you. It's flat. I've been on top of mountains and looked down at the ground below. It's definitely flat. I know, trust me, it just is. Trust me. The notion the earth is round is a giant Jewish conspiracy.

Seriously. Ban the effing lot of them. Fascists aren't here to debate, they're only here to troll and glory in human misery and the deliberate infliction of human misery.

All flat earthers should be shot into space on a one way rocket, so the last thing they see before they perish is the spherical planet that they put so much energy into denying.

If that's not possible, then this is acceptable.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/otilliasteadman/mad-mike-hughes-rocket-death-flat-earth

BonnieSituation

Toeuptony wrote: »

All flat earthers should be shot into space on a one way rocket, so the last thing they see before they perish is the spherical planet that they put so much energy into denying.

If that's not possible, then this is acceptable.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/otilliasteadman/mad-mike-hughes-rocket-death-flat-earth

As an aside, I once met a flat earther at a party a few years back. They could not have engaged with a worse person at the party.

I'm a land surveyor. It didn't end well for them.

---

I hate this obsession with balance these days.

Nonsense has no place in any sensible discussion.

Water John

The notion he floated yesterday of stock being hoarded is abhorrent. Why can't he do, one press conf without dumping on someone?

Christy42

Water John wrote: »

The notion he floated yesterday of stock being hoarded is abhorrent. Why can't he do, one press conf without dumping on someone?

Then he might have to take the blame himself for something. He will avoid talking about when things are going well. Can't be giving away any of that credit now

banie01

BonnieSituation wrote: »

As an aside, I once met a flat earther at a party a few years back. They could not have engaged with a worse person at the party.

I'm a land surveyor. It didn't end well for them.

---

I hate this obsession with balance these days.

Nonsense has no place in any sensible discussion.

Specious bull**** needs to be called out for what it is whenever and wherever it's encountered.

The tactic of some posters here is very reminiscent of the tactics of 911 truthers.

Sheer nonsense, dressed in a veneer of "reasonableness"

POTUS is a moron, whose words and actions since January have done much to shape the level of urgency afforded to Covid-19 preparation.

That he has spent his time since March 17th backpedaling and trying to completely change the narrative he shaped over the previous 2 months is disgusting.

From the virus not being an issue and the Chinese response being fantastic, it not being a threat to the US.

To racialising the virus, ignoring the assigned name, blaming the states for their lack of pandemic prep and to the implication that medical supplies were being at best, poorly managed and at worst totally misappropriated.

The Guardian ran a story recently regarding Covid-19 as the greatest ever failing of US intelligence.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/29/the-coronavirus-is-the-worst-intelligence-failure-in-us-history

When a country has intel failings including Pearl Harbour, the Yom Kippur War, Iranian Revolution, the fall of the USSR and 9/11 in its history that's quite a claim.

The simple fact is that the intelligence didn't fail, the headline is a slight misnomer.
Threat assessments were flagged from December 19 on Covid-19 and the potential US impact.
The only intelligence failure, was in the complete lack of understanding of the risk and the mitigation needs for that risk displayed by the most senior leadership.

Midlife

Jan. 24: Tweeted, “It will all work out well.”

Jan. 28: Retweeted a headline from One America News: “Johnson & Johnson to create coronavirus vaccine.”

Jan. 30: Speech in Michigan: "We have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five. And those people are all recuperating successfully.”

Then he banned flights from China and did nothing else.

Feb. 26: “We’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

Feb. 29: a vaccine would be available “very quickly” and “very rapidly”

Today 'we'll be doing well if we keep it under 100,000'

Any comment on that Pete? That's your definition of a sterling job?

everlast75

Midlife wrote: »

Jan. 24: Tweeted, “It will all work out well.”

Jan. 28: Retweeted a headline from One America News: “Johnson & Johnson to create coronavirus vaccine.”

Jan. 30: Speech in Michigan: "We have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five. And those people are all recuperating successfully.”

Then he banned flights from China and did nothing else.

Feb. 26: “We’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

Feb. 29: a vaccine would be available “very quickly” and “very rapidly”

Today 'we'll be doing well if we keep it under 100,000'

Any comment on that Pete? That's your definition of a sterling job?

Larry Kudlow was out already saying that his comments must be taken into context with the facts at the time.

So any criticism must be made in conjunction with the facts that were clearly contrary to the public statements.

hetuzozaho

I enjoyed his Easter discussion over the last week too. Straight from the source as always. No MSM between me and Trump

Last week:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-10/

Q Who suggested Easter? Who suggested that day?

THE PRESIDENT: I just thought it was a beautiful time. It would be a beautiful time, a beautiful timeline. It’s a great day.

Q So that wasn’t based on any of the data?

THE PRESIDENT: It was — it was based on a certain level of weeks from the time we started. And it happened to arrive — actually, we were thinking in terms of sooner. I’d love to see if come even sooner. But I just think it would be a beautiful timeline.

then yesterday: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-14/

Q Mr. President, given that you’re announcing that you’re extending these guidelines, was floating Easter a mistake, do you think? And —

THE PRESIDENT: No.

Q — does this — can you tell us why and then —

THE PRESIDENT: It was just an aspiration. We actually will be hitting, potentially — and this was with our meeting before — on Easter, we probably — they — well, that could be a peak. That could be a peak period. That could be the peak. Sadly to say, that could be the peak number of deaths before it starts coming down.

No, that was aspirational. We had a — an aspiration of Easter. But when you hear these kind of numbers and you hear the potential travesty, we don’t want to do anything where — you know, we don’t want to have a spike up. We don’t want to do it soon, and then all of a sudden you go down — you’re coming down and then you start going up again. Because we discussed that can happen, and we don’t want that to happen. We’ve gone through too much.

So that was an aspirational number. I didn’t say “Easter.” I said, “It would be a great thing, if we could do it by Easter.” And we know much more now that we knew two, three weeks ago. Easter should be the peak number, and it should start coming down, and hopefully very substantially from that point.

Foxtrol

During part of Trump's rambles this morning he said the quiet part loud again and admitted that Republicans are doing their best to limit the numbers of people that vote in elections

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1244606910462136321?s=20

BonnieSituation

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I enjoyed his Easter discussion over the last week too. Straight from the source as always. No MSM between me and Trump

Last week:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-10/



then yesterday: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-14/

Again, I've seen videos of both of those and wow, I just can't believe they are worse than I recall.

hetuzozaho

Foxtrol wrote: »

During part of Trump's rambles this morning he said the quiet part loud again and admitted that Republicans are doing their best to limit the numbers of people that vote in elections

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1244606910462136321?s=20

I don't understand this, what where the "things"mentioned.

Foxtrol

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I don't understand this, what where the "things"mentioned.

The house bill had stuff like mandating all states to allow postal voting, offer 15 days of early voting, and no-excuse absentee voting.

Some states do these things already but others, especially red states, try to make voting as difficult as possible for demographics that are unlikely to vote for them, like limiting locations, specific id laws

aloyisious

There is nothing like getting in with your angle on facts. Donald Trump claimed he is responsible for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's high approval ratings over his response to the coronavirus outbreak in the Empire State.
"One of the reasons why he's successful is because we've helped make him successful," the president said during a 56-minute telephone interview with Fox News. "He's gotten good marks, but I've gotten great marks."
A new Siena College poll shows 87 percent for New Yorkers approving of the Democratic state chief executive's handling of the pandemic outbreak. Just 41 percent of New York residents approve of Mr Trump's response.

The poll is for New York. Don has better poll results in national polls with the proviso that the questions asked in the different polls will be different. Using words of your own choice in poll questions will leave the respondents with a fixed set of answers preferred by the pollsters.

Igotadose

A bit dated (a week ago), but gee, Larry "I'm always dramatically wrong at the worst time" Kudlow, Trump's top economic adviser, walks back his claim that #IMPOTUS had 'the US locked up airtight.'

Whenever Kudlow opens his mouth, bad things come out of it. The worst thing, though, is Trump hired this arseclown in the first place. When he couldn't get any real economists to take the job.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-kudlow-admits-he-was-wrong-about-disease-being-contained.html

serfboard

Donald Trump wrote:

[Referring to Andrew Cuomo]He's gotten good marks, but I've gotten great marks.

Seth Meyers does a great analysis of Trump on his "Closer Look" segments.

On one of the recent ones he said [words to the effect of] "Donald Trump never misses an opportunity to remind you how awful he is".

Timberrrrrrrr

serfboard wrote: »

Seth Meyers does a great analysis of Trump on his "Closer Look" segments.

On one of the recent ones he said [words to the effect of] "Donald Trump never misses an opportunity to remind you how awful he is".

I usually head to bed around 9.30 due to being swamped in work/long days but I'm finding myself staying up later just to watch Trumps pressers. It's car crash T.V at it's finest until you remember that this is actually the real POTUS and not a SNL skit.