Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

serfboard

sid waddell wrote: »

Exhibit A of what the problem is with US political journalism.

They're just stopping short of saying that Trump is behaving in a "Presidential" manner.

Penn

sid waddell wrote: »

Exhibit A of what the problem is with US political journalism.

https://twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1245170751994544128

They're pretty much saying "Better late than never" without pointing out how the two+ months it's taken for him to get to this point will result in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

kowloon

Is this genuine?

Christy42

kowloon wrote: »

Is this genuine?

Yes. Trump seems to have gotten confused. I saw it before and presumed someone had changed the date on the second tweet from January but no. He tweeted out support for China's handling of the situation a few days ago.

Water John

What a difference a day makes.

Foxtrol

Problem is that all he has still really done is advise social distancing. He isn't making states implement it so there will continue to be delays, mostly from red states, that will make things worse.

Foxtrol

One for the 'but her emails' crew that voted Trump or sat out in 2016

https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1245127009862324225?s=20

Cody montana

“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.“-Trump.

Will he lose votes if he is responsible for 100 thousand deaths?
Technically yes, they won’t be able to vote for him.

VinLieger

Cody montana wrote: »

“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.“-Trump.

Will he lose votes if he is responsible for 100 thousand deaths?
Technically yes, they won’t be able to vote for him.

Also considering the demographics of the most vulnerable, a lot would be part of his core voter base

Leroy42

And let no one forget that when challenged about his apparent opposite view to the scientific consensus about the virus, Trump had this to say at the press conference on 20 March;

“It may work, it may not work,” he said on Friday. “I feel good about it. It’s just a feeling. I’m a smart guy … We have nothing to lose. You know the expression, ‘What the hell do you have to lose?’”

Alexander asked the president: “Is it possible that your impulse to put a positive spin on things may be giving Americans a false sense of hope?”

The president retorted: “No I don’t think so … It may work, it may not work. I feel good about it. That’s all it is, it’s a feeling.”

So it turns out that Alexander was right and Trump was wrong. Right there is the admission that Trump, despite having been informed of the extent of the problem had ignored that advice and gone on his own 'feeling'.

So anyone that wants to claim that the deaths to do not lie directly at the feet of Trump need to bear this in mind. He could have decided to opt for the scientific advice, but instead chose a different path based on his feelings.

TRS30

Penn wrote: »

His words and actions have undoubtedly results in tens of thousands more Americans dying from Covid-19 than otherwise would have. One cannot downplay the impact his "Trump speak" has had in this.

Everyone: I agree

Pete: Hold my beer......

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

I'll quote the great man first...

"I’m the most transparent president in history" 05/22/2019

And then tell you that he has fought any and all cases regarding his taxes/finances all the way up to the Supreme Court, where the cases are currently stagnating.

If he doesn't get re-elected, what's the odds that the USSC decides then that he must reveal his tax returns?

TomOnBoard

Christy42 wrote: »

Yes. Trump seems to have gotten confused. I saw it before and presumed someone had changed the date on the second tweet from January but no. He tweeted out support for China's handling of the situation a few days ago.

Two different Trumps!

The Sociopath and the Idiot!

aloyisious

Cody montana wrote: »

“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.“-Trump.

Will he lose votes if he is responsible for 100 thousand deaths?
Technically yes, they won’t be able to vote for him.

The irony of last nights media Q&A session was when he talked about people of his age group [70's] and the virus and he didn't even blink, like he never made the connect between how being of that age meant one's body had probably been run through life's mill reducing it's anti-body and immune system.

rossie1977

It's a few days old but

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1244373578507845632

Cork Boy 53

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-sends-very-very-large-planeload-masks-medical-equipment-us

I wonder how this will be spun by Trump if he is questioned about it today. The Russians sending aid to the USA. I imagine it won`t go down well with large sections of Trump`s voter base.

salmocab

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-sends-very-very-large-planeload-masks-medical-equipment-us

I wonder how this will be spun by Trump if he is questioned about it today. The Russians sending aid to the USA. I imagine it won`t go down well with large sections of Trump`s voter base.

They won’t give a shiny one, they don’t care when he does something bad this is hardly at the lower end, it’s actually good news regardless of the source.

Manic Moran

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Posted in another thread, why the hell haven't they shut down internal flights yet? How can they hope to contain anything without shutting down that level of intrastate travel?

Firstly, they are greatly reduced. It's not obvious on the image because there are several layers of aircraft on the older one. There are a whole hell of a lot of cancelled flights with at least half the US's fleet parked on the ground. They are so short on space that they are parking on runways, there are some 50 American Airlines aircraft on this one runway in Pennsylvania alone.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/04/01/07/26663748-8174863-As_airlines_cut_more_service_due_to_the_COVID_19_pandemic_Pittsb-a-165_1585721165261.jpg

On the other hand, it's a big damned country, and if you want to get from A to B, you need to take the airplane. A lot of them are pretty close to empty, but some people and cargo still need to move around. Ireland, as I understand it, is on a 2km lockdown, but Dublin Bus is still on the go, there are still eight trains a day from Dublin to Cork. France and Germany are still running their intercity trains, and in the US, airplanes are the equivalent to trains in Europe.

Further, the US still takes its individual freedoms seriously. The country cannot be locked down: If the airplanes won't run, folks will take the train or drive themselves.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/why-theres-no-national-lockdown/609127/

Even if the president desired to take stronger action, America’s national-level response would be hampered in part by its federalist system. Constitutional authority for ordering major public-health interventions, such as mass quarantines and physical distancing, lies primarily with U.S. states and localities via their “police powers”—a drastic difference from the national authorities of countries such as China and Italy.

[...]

When governments, federal or state, do have the authority to order mass quarantines, constitutional and ethical principles—as well as American values—require that these orders be balanced against long-standing safeguards of personal liberty and privacy. Such orders would impose extreme limitations on individual liberties including the right to travel and associate. Their enforcement could entail invasions on personal privacy, such as government use of electronic surveillance to monitor individuals’ movements. Even so, courts would likely uphold containment orders against individuals that are based on sound science (including testing positive for the virus) and are proportionate. Individuals hold liberties, such as freedom of movement, only up to the point where they pose a risk to others.

However, large-scale quarantines based on group determinations would be constitutionally troublesome because they are inherently overbroad.

Alternatively
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/mass-quarantine-lockdown-explainer/

Lawrence Gostin, the faculty director of Georgetown University’s O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law, argued that America’s complicated federalist system might be the best check on any attempt to institute a mass quarantine or lockdown.

Neither federal nor state governments have clear authority, he argued, to restrict travel between states, thus making it difficult to justify any sort of domestic travel restriction in court.

serfboard

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I imagine it won`t go down well with large sections of Trump`s voter base.

You must not seen those T-Shirts at Trump rallies that said: "I'd rather be a Russian than a Democrat".

pixelburp

serfboard wrote: »

You must not seen those T-Shirts at Trump rallies that said: "I'd rather be a Russian than a Democrat".

And for illustration, here are the offending two. I suppose to be Devil's Advocate, we've only ever seen this pair so maybe - just maybe - they're very much a fringe within Trump's Base. Mind you, the mindset of American Politics does suggest that if it píssed off the lib'ruls or Democrats, many Trump zealots would support it.

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1026150926271143936

hetuzozaho

Manic Moran wrote: »

On the other hand, it's a big damned country, and if you want to get from A to B, you need to take the airplane. A lot of them are pretty close to empty

Where can I see those stats? Been looking for them.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-sends-very-very-large-planeload-masks-medical-equipment-us

I wonder how this will be spun by Trump if he is questioned about it today. The Russians sending aid to the USA. I imagine it won`t go down well with large sections of Trump`s voter base.

What are you on about? They love Russia now.

Manic Moran

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Where can I see those stats? Been looking for them.

I'm just looking at the seat maps. I have a couple of trips booked for this month that I need to play with. Talking with United's rep today, they've cancelled over 40% of their flights. SouthWest also have cancelled over 40% from information a week old, and most of those flights were at under 50% capacity.

VinLieger

Looks like people are already back to not taking it seriously if this tweet and its replies are to be believes

https://twitter.com/kumailn/status/1245114832417779712?s=19

Very worrying if true

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm just looking at the seat maps. I have a couple of trips booked for this month that I need to play with. Talking with United's rep today, they've cancelled over 40% of their flights. SouthWest also have cancelled over 40% from information a week old, and most of those flights were at under 50% capacity.

The fact your playing with flying this month as the US excuse the pun .. takes off in terms of cases shows how seriously this is being taken.

200k is evidently going to be surpassed which is an awful testament to the leadership in the US.


Mess.

pixelburp

VinLieger wrote: »

Looks like people are already back to not taking it seriously if this tweet and its replies are to be believes

https://twitter.com/kumailn/status/1245114832417779712?s=19

Very worrying if true

Trump or no Trump, we're talking of a country that has individualism and a self entitlement to a mythological sense of "Freedom" embedded into its being; one that's very hard to dislodge when suddenly the consensus is to behave in a prescribed, communal fashion. I posted a tweet from AOC, a reply from a woman gloating about going to a restaurant in spite of pleas to distancing.

Now, that's not to say we haven't had our own fair share of twits going against the grain, but the penny dropped quick enough. As a biased outsider looking in, I don't have faith the US as a cultural entity can switch tracks away from "F you, I got mine"

listermint

listermint wrote: »

The fact your playing with flying this month as the US excuse the pun .. takes off in terms of cases shows how seriously this is being taken.

200k is evidently going to be surpassed which is an awful testament to the leadership in the US.


Mess.

I also find the 'personal freedoms' line difficult to grasp as it just translates as not caring about the negative consequences of their actions. If thousands of people end up seriously ill end up ill as a result, it just doesn't matter.

listermint

4000 deaths now surpasses 100k cases.


Their trajectory and that of the UK is soaring past the others at this point. Trending vertical rather than horizontal

VinLieger

listermint wrote: »

4000 deaths now surpasses 100k cases.


Their trajectory and that of the UK is soaring past the others at this point. Trending vertical rather than horizontal

It took 5 days to go from 100k to 200k, they are still trying to claim their peak will be at easter for most states, i dont see how thats possible

aloyisious

Re the USS Theodore Roosevelt, there was an unusual interview of Gen Terrence O'Shaughnessy, C/O of NORAD by Christiane Amanpore on CNN earlier. One of the questions was about the welfare of the TR's crew after the leaking of a letter allegedly penned by the carriers's C/O asking what was going to be done for his crew, with a large number ill from Cofid 19. Gen O'Shaughnessy sidestepped the question completely talking instead about duty, the men under Cheyanne Mountain, the bi-lateral agreement with Canada for defence of north America and a mention of Russian aircraft. Christiane tried another tack, asking if the US military could double task, talk and chew gum at the same time. The Gen didn't bite. I'm kind'a hoping the non-response from him means there are wheels in motion which can't be discussed for Op reasons, cos the alternative is not nice. In the meantime, reportedly the US have started an investigation into how the letter contents were leaked to the media, which does add credibility to the letter's existence.

I'm not sure what the term non-incorporated means in reference to Guam, as it seems it has only local Govt powers to run it's affairs and if it means the federal govt can use it as a massive off-shore hospital for the crew being quarantined there for the un-foreseeable future.