Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Manic Moran

aloyisious wrote: »

I had a check on the status of anti-virus checks on US flights and found all references were for flights from abroad and mostly dated no later than 17 March. Are the different airports carrying out anti-virus checks on passengers queueing & boarding US internal flights?

I doubt it. For starters, nobody's sure it works.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/health/coronavirus-airport-temperature-checks/index.html
That said, Texas has implemented mandatory registration and 14-day quarantine for folks arriving from some infected areas.

Leroy42 wrote: »

What about the freedoms taken away after 9/11? Massive invasion on peoples liberties and freedoms with hardly a whimper from the people.

Apparently they weren't massive, judging by the legal cases in the last decade.

Don't kid yourself Manic. The Freedom of the Press is written into the constitution itself and yet Trump has done more to limit that freedom in 3 years that was probably done up to that point. And of course the US fought back against that? Except no, the Trump supporters lapped it up and cheered him on.

How? What laws or orders have limited what the press can say? Have there been restrictions on where the press can release their information, preventions of people accessing their news, or other forms of censorship?

He may be making a mockery of the concept of open government, and treating the press with contempt, but find me where in the constitution that's a legal, not political issue.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

This sort of story is why the US is screwed...

Death threats because they think he's a Deep-state Hilary loving plant

We also have this guy who tried to drive his train into one of the two hospital ships because he didn't trust what it was really there for.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/train-derailed-mercy-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

But... but... Wilbur said this on the 30th January...


https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1222863896882679808?s=19

That's on line with what Don said last referring to Saudi And Russia's spat over oil prices. Surprisingly Don was all for the two to make a deal so the oil price could settle down [or up as the case would be] which I would have thought not helpful or desirable to the US customer at the pumps.

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Apparently they weren't massive, judging by the legal cases in the last decade.

The point isn't the final law that is passed, that would be decided upon for years afterwards, the point is to set the narrative. Take for example Trump Muslim Ban. Completely unconstitutional but whatever version he finally got through it served its purpose. He showed that people were willing to rip up the constitution based on fear.

It was the same after 9/11. You were trying to make the point that because Americans love freedom that they would never accept anything less, when the facts don't back that up at all.

Manic Moran wrote: »

How? What laws or orders have limited what the press can say? Have there been restrictions on where the press can release their information, preventions of people accessing their news, or other forms of censorship?

He may be making a mockery of the concept of open government, and treating the press with contempt, but find me where in the constitution that's a legal, not political issue.

You can't really be that naive Manic. He knows he can't lawfully stop them, but he can certainly go to the very edge of the rules and very much go against the spirit of them. The press is protected as they are seen as essential to democracy, but Trump has, to quite a degree of success, made people think that the press are not essential to hold power to account but are actually the cause of many of the problems. So no law needs to change if you can simply make it irrelevant.

Itssoeasy

It must bug President trump to be compared with the governor of New York Andrew cuomo who at his daily briefing is coming across well informed and would reassure me if I was living in New York State at the moment. He's also making it personal because his brother Chris cuomo has the virus and is actually live via video link talking to his brother now. There's a warmth to the guy considering the mess New York is in because of this virus.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

I doubt it. For starters, nobody's sure it works.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/health/coronavirus-airport-temperature-checks/index.html
That said, Texas has implemented mandatory registration and 14-day quarantine for folks arriving from some infected areas.

Umm, nobody's sure it works - yes well, that about spells out the attitude from some within the Admin prior to Don seeing the light from the torches of the two doctors and reversing his opinion on citizens safety The lack of sufficient re-agent testing materiel for the labs is something the Act Don activated for manufacture and supply of essential items should be able to clear up. The INITIAL TESTING OF THE SUBJECT PERSON seems to be simple enough, if what Don went through is an example. I'm aware of the reported backlog in the testing labs leading up to a slowness in identifying persons definitely medically affected by the virus.

The Texas approach sounds sensible. It cant be held responsible for the decision to leave the US's external doors open as, as you say, the states run their own affairs while the Admin runs the US's affairs at national level. One could always put it to a vote of the other passengers "do you want this person on your plane sitting next to you for the next few hours"?

PropJoe10

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It must bug President trump to be compared with the governor of New York Andrew cuomo who at his daily briefing is coming across well informed and would reassure me if I was living in New York State at the moment. He's also making it personal because his brother Chris cuomo has the virus and is actually live via video link talking to his brother now. There's a warmth to the guy considering the mess New York is in because of this virus.

To be honest, I'm not sure if Trump really cares about that, because he knows he's successfully getting his nonsense out to his base through his daily pressers. He's never at any stage tried to appeal to the whole country or bring the country together, so why would he start now?

hotmail.com

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It must bug President trump to be compared with the governor of New York Andrew cuomo who at his daily briefing is coming across well informed and would reassure me if I was living in New York State at the moment. He's also making it personal because his brother Chris cuomo has the virus and is actually live via video link talking to his brother now. There's a warmth to the guy considering the mess New York is in because of this virus.

There appears to be a catastrophe unfolding in New York and I bet the ordinary people there don't get obsessed over these press conferences.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

There appears to be a catastrophe unfolding in New York and I bet the ordinary people there don't get obsessed over these press conferences.

My mother is American, my cousins all live in New York. They're terrified, the behaviour of the administration around it has horrified them. So yep it does tend to matter how the commander in chief behaves...

hotmail.com

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My mother is American, my cousins all live in New York. They're terrified, the behaviour of the administration around it has horrified them. So yep it does tend to matter how the commander in chief behaves...

Presumably they would take their advice from their Governor?

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

Presumably they would take their advice from their Governor?

They have little choice since the POTUS is so remarkably unable to do his job.

hotmail.com

Leroy42 wrote: »

They have little choice since the POTUS is so remarkably unable to do his job.

But this is a question about state powers and authority.

My understanding is that Americans listen to what their state government says and does, they listen to local media, not CNN etc.

The powers of the US president are somewhat limited in these circumstances and the general interest in Washington is among the elite and middle classes living in the big cities.

BonnieSituation

hotmail.com wrote: »

But this is a question about state powers and authority.

My understanding is that Americans listen to what their state government says and does, they listen to local media, not CNN etc.

The powers of the US president are somewhat limited in these circumstances and the general interest in Washington is among the elite and middle classes living in the big cities.

Are you back to saying that DJT and his pronouncements don't matter, again?

hotmail.com

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are you back to saying that DJT and his pronouncements don't matter, again?

Nope, I'm just trying to reflect the situation in America.

Irish people seem to think that the US President has unlimited powers and authority. Ordinary people living in Montana or Iowa probably look at their local news bulletins first before the national channels which focus on Washington.

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

But this is a question about state powers and authority.

My understanding is that Americans listen to what their state government says and does, they listen to local media, not CNN etc.

The powers of the US president are somewhat limited in these circumstances and the general interest in Washington is among the elite and middle classes living in the big cities.

You don't need powers to set the tone. He has the POTUS pulpit, he leads the country. It is very odd that Trump supporters are so interested in making sure to explain how little power POTUS actually has.

But doesn't that give lie to the whole MAGA? With no power, how can he do anything. Jobs are nothing to do with him, but actually the Senators/Governors etc.

I fully understand that Leo/Johnson or any leader doesn't actually carry out the work. It is passed down to the people charged with whatever particular area. But the leader sets the tone, gets people working towards one goal.

hotmail.com

Leroy42 wrote: »

You don't need powers to set the tone. He has the POTUS pulpit, he leads the country. It is very odd that Trump supporters are so interested in making sure to explain how little power POTUS actually has.

But doesn't that give lie to the whole MAGA? With no power, how can he do anything. Jobs are nothing to do with him, but actually the Senators/Governors etc.

I fully understand that Leo/Johnson or any leader doesn't actually carry out the work. It is passed down to the people charged with whatever particular area. But the leader sets the tone, gets people working towards one goal.

I am not defending Trump. And for that matter I have laughed at the WhatsApp videos of him.

Leaders setting a tone.. I just have a serious issue with this. I just really don't think people care about this stuff. They want action.

Look at the legacy of Obama's supposed 'wonderful' oratory - Donald Trump.

hotmail.com

Anyway, admitting that the US President can set a tone, sort of confirms my point - his powers are extremely limited.

Even the powers he has is limited by Congress and the Supreme Court.

One American said to me that US President is like a King.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

You can't really be that naive Manic. He knows he can't lawfully stop them, but he can certainly go to the very edge of the rules and very much go against the spirit of them. The press is protected as they are seen as essential to democracy, but Trump has, to quite a degree of success, made people think that the press are not essential to hold power to account but are actually the cause of many of the problems. So no law needs to change if you can simply make it irrelevant.

What is the “spirit” of the rule? I thought the spirit was that the government cannot stop you from either easily saying what you want, or easily obtaining the speech of others, and that’s what the courts follow since it also is pretty much what is written into the Constitution.

There is nothing in there saying “The President’s press briefings must be useful and neutral”, and there is similarly nothing saying “the press may not say that the President is not being useful or neutral, or otherwise influence voters on account of this”. Indeed, it’s fairly easy to find articles in which they do just that.

The ramifications for Trump’s press actions are political, not legal. The redress is found in the ballot box, not the court system. You are attempting to conflate “what you would like to happen” with “What is currently in law”. How would you even define a legal standard that the courts can rely upon?

aloyisious

hotmail.com wrote: »

But this is a question about state powers and authority.

My understanding is that Americans listen to what their state government says and does, they listen to local media, not CNN etc.

The powers of the US president are somewhat limited in these circumstances and the general interest in Washington is among the elite and middle classes living in the big cities.

Er no, this is not about state powers and authority, its about Donald J Trump and his past and present handling of the Virus outbreak situation. There's no point in trying to offload his responsibility unto others. Maybe you haven't paid much attention to what Don has said in respect to what he believed was the medical situation caused by the virus outbreak and what he could do as president. He's done a lot of backtracking over the past few days on both positions.

mcmoustache

aloyisious wrote: »

Er no, this is not about state powers and authority, its about Donald J Trump and his past and present handling of the Virus outbreak situation. There's no point in trying to offload his responsibility unto others.

A point being neglected here is that when an emergency affects the whole US, a lot of it needs to be handled at a federal level. There needs to be some coordination. It's the reason that here was a bloody manual on how to handle a pandemic sitting in the White House.

Imagine if you had Hawaii sending off their national guard to attack the Japanese fleet or New York was competing with Alabama for ventilators or neighbouring states taking different approaches to distancing and gatherings? It would be ineffective and inefficient.

This idea that a global pandemic should be handled individually by geographically contiguous states that share the same federal laws and not by the national government doesn't pass the smell test.

everlast75

hotmail.com wrote: »

Look at the legacy of Obama's supposed 'wonderful' oratory - Donald Trump.

What in hell is that supposed to mean?

That Obama's ability to speak well resulted in us getting Trump????

Or that in general, Obama is the cause of Trump!?

Obama was a fantastic orator. One of the best of all time. And while we are at it, he was also one of the most sincere, intelligent and compassionate presidents ever.

The only "connection" between Trump and Obama is that combined they present the starkest of differences on multiple levels.

Foxtrol

hotmail.com wrote: »

But this is a question about state powers and authority.

My understanding is that Americans listen to what their state government says and does, they listen to local media, not CNN etc.

The powers of the US president are somewhat limited in these circumstances and the general interest in Washington is among the elite and middle classes living in the big cities.

And many Republican governors listen to Trump. When Trump was downplaying the seriousness of the virus and saying the country will be reopened by Easter most republican governors weren't going to go against him and lockdown their states. The Florida governor repeatedly stated he was waiting for a federally mandated guidance from Trump and let the virus spread for weeks before taking action yesterday when Trump's tone turned

Look at this list of states not in lockdown:

https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/1245527995361746950?s=20

Billy Mays

The governor of Georgia (R) admitting that he only found out yesterday that someone could pass on the virus to someone else without knowing they had it in the first place

What sort of bubble are these clowns living in ffs???

BonnieSituation

hotmail.com wrote: »

Nope, I'm just trying to reflect the situation in America.

Irish people seem to think that the US President has unlimited powers and authority. Ordinary people living in Montana or Iowa probably look at their local news bulletins first before the national channels which focus on Washington.

Are you for real in thinking we need you, of all people, to come in here and tell us how America works? Mother of God.

If it's any consolation, everything you have said above has been reiterated by others.

Again, I'm surprised you're taking such an interest in America and its president.

aloyisious

Going back to the question of internal flights in the US, I've just seen an item on Bloomberg News, the channel which covers the market and it reported that, according to the US airlines, only between 05 and 15 % of aircraft seats are occupied now on their planes. That, if true, IMO is simply unprofitable for the airlines continued trading existence even with their asking the administration for funding assistance. They have to have already cut back on their scheduled numbers of flights to keep losses and costs down, in order to prove to the Fed that they are not being wasteful with the funding already provided.

To give an Irish example on how the virus here has affected transport here at a basic level, I took a Dublin Bus home after doing essential shopping. The lower floor had only six out of 28 available for use, meaning there were only six passengers on the floor. The rest bore posters bearing COVID-19 and a large diagonal bar through the words showing they were NOT for use. The 6 seats were approx 2 metres apart in line with the distance between people required by law. I haven't seen the inside of an Irish plane lately showing the actual seating arrangements allowed for passengers in the current emergency but I believe there is a chance that the airline Co's can't park their passengers willy-nilly on their aircraft any more as done in the past.

duploelabs

aloyisious wrote: »

Going back to the question of internal flights in the US, I've just seen an item on Bloomberg News, the channel which covers the market and it reported that, according to the US airlines, only between 05 and 15 % of aircraft seats are occupied now on their planes. That, if true, IMO is simply unprofitable for the airlines continued trading existence even with their asking the administration for funding assistance. They have to have already cut back on their scheduled numbers of flights to keep losses and costs down, in order to prove to the Fed that they are not being wasteful with the funding already provided.

To give an Irish example on how the virus here has affected transport here at a basic level, I took a Dublin Bus home after doing essential shopping. The lower floor had only six out of 28 available for use, meaning there were only six passengers on the floor. The rest bore posters bearing COVID-19 and a large diagonal bar through the words showing they were NOT for use. The 6 seats were approx 2 metres apart in line with the distance between people required by law. I haven't seen the inside of an Irish plane lately showing the actual seating arrangements allowed for passengers in the current emergency but I believe there is a chance that the airline Co's can't park their passengers willy-nilly on their aircraft any more as done in the past.

If they stop the flights, then they lose their slots in the airports. The airlines are using whatever cash, new or saved, to keep them from surrendering those slots

aloyisious

duploelabs wrote: »

If they stop the flights, then they lose their slots in the airports. The airlines are using whatever cash, new or saved, to keep them from surrendering those slots

I should have made plain I related my post to the ones between me and Manic Moran re testing passengers for the virus before allowing them board internal US flights. Manic said he doubted if the airlines did such tests, that no one knew if the tests worked. I thought, without saying so, that if the airlines had that attitude in mind, it would [IMO] equate to at least a careless attitude not fit for purpose. D-f--t-st had sprung to mind. Imagine the airline marketing Ad, "we care about your health, we ensure no one with the virus travels beside you".

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

I am not defending Trump. And for that matter I have laughed at the WhatsApp videos of him.

Leaders setting a tone.. I just have a serious issue with this. I just really don't think people care about this stuff. They want action.

Look at the legacy of Obama's supposed 'wonderful' oratory - Donald Trump.

Well a simple thing that he could have utilised weeks ago is the Defence Production Act and utilise industry to manufacture ventilators and other necessary equipment. So he could do substantial things. He could also have highlighted how dangerous it was early on. Instead he promoted some businesses but did nothing.

beggars_bush

Billy Mays wrote: »

The governor of Georgia (R) admitting that he only found out yesterday that someone could pass on the virus to someone else without knowing they had it in the first place

What sort of bubble are these clowns living in ffs???

the american bubble

you have no idea, until you live and work there for a while

Nody

You know how Trump likes to brag about what he's done for the economy? Yea I think we're about to see another Twitter fit if he see's these numbers...

Associated Press wrote:

Today 60% of Americans say the economy is ‘poor’ — 67% called it ‘good’ in January

WASHINGTON (AP) — About half of all working Americans report some kind of income loss affecting themselves or a member of their household due to the coronavirus pandemic, with low-income Americans and those without college degrees especially likely to have lost a job, according to a new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.

Sixty percent of Americans now say the national economy is “poor,” an alarmingly swift reversal from the 67% who called it “good” in January.

Then again I'm sure his usual defenders will come here soon to tell us all how it's not Trumps fault; after all Trump is only responsible if things are positive....

Billy Mays

beggars_bush wrote: »

the american bubble

you have no idea, until you live and work there for a while

Did both for 5 years

The first time I watched Fox News was certainly an eye opener