Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Frank Bullitt

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And to think, Obama wore that suit.

It does fit, at least.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

See my post above.

The term limits only came in because of FDR. Before FDR it was convention to only max out at two terms.

I saw your post. I was replying to another post. Your post perfectly lays out that massive issues with the US constitution. The convention was established by George Washington I believe.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I saw your post. I was replying to another post. Your post perfectly lays out that massive issues with the US constitution. The convention was established by George Washington I believe.

It was. But these were a group of intelligent men who had some semblance of honour.

The creaking edifice of the American constitution has only survived thus far because they've elected decent presidents, in the sense of human decency*.

I mean, Nixon bloody resigned!







*you know what I mean. I'm having my 3pm slump at 435.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yup!

Amazing isn't it.

Even reading from a script he's saying words he understands. Like, you l know, as you'd expect.

I mean he hesitated over a few words as did Obama did but hesitating and stumbling over words is something that happens to the best of us when reading out loud but trump reads things like a hostage note and it's clear he doesn't understand the majority of what he's reading.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I mean he hesitated over a few words as did Obama did but hesitating and stumbling over words is something that happens to the best of us when reading out loud but trump reads things like a hostage note and it's clear he doesn't understand the majority of what he's reading.

But I remember how bush was always criticised for it.

Like I say, it's because he was compared to Clinton that that was the case.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It was. But these were a group of intelligent men who had some semblance of honour.

The creaking edifice of the American constitution has only survived thus far because they've elected decent presidents, in the sense of human decency*.

I mean, Nixon bloody resigned!







*you know what I mean. I'm having my 3pm slump at 435.

I've been listening to Nixon speeches a lot recently because I was watching documentaries on watergate and yeah Nixon ballsed up things but when you listen to his farewell speech to the White House staff you can see a human being beneath it all who has some moral compass.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But I remember how bush was always criticised for it.

Like I say, it's because he was compared to Clinton that that was the case.

Yeah the axes of Elvis and those kind of flubbs are endearing compared to trump. Bush wasn't a stupid person but he may not have conveyed his ability to understand things in detail that well but to see him and his family when his parents died it's clear while a family with problems there is warmth there. The trump family don't exhibit that at all in public at least.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've been listening to Nixon speeches a lot recently because I was watching documentaries on watergate and yeah Nixon ballsed up things but when you listen to his farewell speech to the White House staff you can see a human being beneath it all who has some moral compass.

Nixon is the great "confuser". I mean, we're all supposed to hate the guy, then you look at what an absolute political giant he was...

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah the axes of Elvis and those kind of flubbs are endearing compared to trump. Bush wasn't a stupid person but he may not have conveyed his ability to understand things in detail that well but to see him and his family when his parents died it's clear while a family with problems there is warmth there. The trump family don't exhibit that at all in public at least.

Cheney was just a ruthless SOB and Bush was the perfect vessel.

Ande1975

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I mean he hesitated over a few words as did Obama did but hesitating and stumbling over words is something that happens to the best of us when reading out loud but trump reads things like a hostage note and it's clear he doesn't understand the majority of what he's reading.

Bush was renowned for his Bushisms - 'Is our children learning?' :eek: He was a bad president policy wise but he took the role seriously, understood history and public office and also had a sense of humour/laughed at himself. Watch the White House Correspondents Dinner with a Bush Impersonator Steve Bridges to see...

Obama is an intellect, respectful and articulate.

Trump however reads from a speech as if (but probably is) reading it for the first time. Anytime he says 'Not a lot of people know that' or 'no one could have', he is talking about himself. He repeats facts because its the first time he is learning them. My God its torture.

BonnieSituation

Ande1975 wrote: »

Bush was renowned for his Bushisms - 'Is our children learning?' :eek: He was a bad president policy wise but he took the role seriously, understood history and public office and also had a sense of humour/laughed at himself. Watch the White House Correspondents Dinner with a Bush Impersonator Steve Bridges to see...

Obama is an intellect, respectful and articulate.

Trump however reads from a speech as if (but probably is) reading it for the first time. Anytime he says 'Not a lot of people know that' or 'no one could have', he is talking about himself. He repeats facts because its the first time he is learning them. My God its torture.

The ability to take a joke goes a long way.

Gbear

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The ability to take a joke goes a long way.

Who was it who said something like they'd never seen Trump laugh or show any humour?

If you're talking about a sort of Fr Stone character, who's just incredibly earnest, sobre and serious all the time, you could understand, but Trump certainly isn't any of those.

Christy42

Gbear wrote: »

Who was it who said something like they'd never seen Trump laugh or show any humour?

If you're talking about a sort of Fr Stone character, who's just incredibly earnest, sobre and serious all the time, you could understand, but Trump certainly isn't any of those.

They mean the ability to take a joke directed at you. Trump isn't serious but he is a different level of insecure and takes badly to any sort of joke at his expense.

Midlife

Gbear wrote: »

Who was it who said something like they'd never seen Trump laugh or show any humour?

If you're talking about a sort of Fr Stone character, who's just incredibly earnest, sobre and serious all the time, you could understand, but Trump certainly isn't any of those.

Re: Bush. From 2001 to 2018, one estimate is that about half a million people were killed in Iraq, Afghanistan. About 250000 civilians in total.

Trump is utterly repulsive. A disgusting sleezy egotistical con man. I never cease to be amazed that anyone can hold him in any esteem whatsoever.

But his America First type of national socialism (they must come up with something shorter and snappier for that) will hurt mainly America in the long run. 20 years from now he'll be looked back at as the death knell of American expectionalism.

Trump is bad for America but Bush killed half a million people in the middle east and the region is still fu€ked.

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

Basically, the Rep playbook is try make things harder for people to vote rather than come up with better policies.

Its been their No.1 strategy for decades now.

However, the Dems have been constantly playing 'go-high' politics ever since WWII, and have failed to deal with the structural failures in voting/election mechanics even when they have owned legislative majorities.

I accept that it is not easy to change the electoral rules in the USA. The original Constitution Framers' orientation towards entrusting voting rights to land/ property owners alone, to the exclusion of poor white and all former slaves and their descendants, haunts attempts at modern day hopes for democratic leveling.

The big 'dirty secret' in Republican politics is that they believe that 'The Great Unwashed' simply cannot be trusted with voting in relation to 'important things'. Hence, most attempts at making voting easier will be challenged at every turn by Republicans in Politics, Media and unfortunately in the Courts (ultimately vindicating Mitch Mc Connell's strategy of stonewalling Merrit Garland and more recently his stacking of the Courts incl. the SCOTUS). This will ensure continuation of the Republican strategy well into the 2030s and beyond.

Dems need to take both House and Senate as well as the White House in November and focus on sorting out this issue once and for all.

TomOnBoard

valoren wrote: »

Isn't there a bipartisan etiquette suggesting that ex-Presidents not interfere or comment on policy with subsequent/ future administrations? I think Obama is happy to abide with that etiquette and if the Democrats can't formulate a coherent election strategy without him then they are in trouble. He wouldn't want to break precedent no matter how ugly the campaign can get. Even if Obama spoke out, expressly to taunt Trump in order to really send him apoplectic, then the GOP will hark back to that etiquette and play if off as evidence that the Democrats are so rattled by Trump that established historical etiquette has been impinged upon. There will always be a dodge and a flip for everything.

**** etiquette at this stage...

Dems need to drop all pretence at so-called 'fairness' for now..

When they go low... we go lower 'than anybody thought possible'...

Seriously, **** fairness!

Water John

This is MMA. GOP don't do rules or etiquette.

everlast75

This was written 25 years ago.

It appears there has been no improvement. In fact, things have gotten worse

everlast75

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248333612212195328?s=19


Back to referring to his ratings, whilst hundreds of people are dying every day!? Wtf is going on?

The journalists should corner McConnell and pound him relentlessly with questions about how this is any way shape or form appropriate. Don't let him off the hook. One journalist after the other. Make him look ridiculous in his effort to defend him.

There's no ****ing point with Trump.

How anyone can say that he is mentally fit is utterly beyond me.

Jesus christ. It's.... I don't know. I give up.

BonnieSituation

everlast75 wrote: »

This was written 25 years ago.

It appears there has been no improvement. In fact, things have gotten worse

No better man than Sagan. RIP.

Cosmos is one of my favourite books ever.

Outlaw Pete

Christy42 wrote: »

They mean the ability to take a joke directed at you. Trump isn't serious but he is a different level of insecure and takes badly to any sort of joke at his expense.

Whenever that's said it's usually in response to him having been demeaned and then having the audacity to not find it funny.

However, he's clearly well up for jokes being made at his expense otherwise.

Water John

Trump didn't react very well to Sean O'Rourke when he tried a similar hair test.

Christy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Whenever that's said it's usually in response to him having been demeaned and then having the audacity to not find it funny.

However, he's clearly well up for jokes being made at his expense otherwise.

He lost the plot because someone asked him to deliver a message to scared Americans. I mean he can barely handle the softball questions at this point. We had the "tell it like it is" president who complained that "they were so mean"

The correspondence dinner has had a long history of insulting presidents. Trump couldn't hack it and made them stop or he was taking his ball and going home.

He can hardly complain about being demeaned. He can give it out but can't take it? He didn't block a state funeral and gave out that the widow wasn't suddenly in complete agreement with every political view he had. It wasn't even meant to be an insult and he couldn't hack it.

One setup routine is not going to convince anyone.

Compare to the racist campaign he pushed against Obama for the birther nonsense and Obama had the self belief to brush it off and turn it into a joke. If Obama can turn a racist campaign into a joke the man should be able to handle the softball stuff that has been put his way.

The press fall head over heals and compliment him all over the place on the few occasions that Trump has managed to successfully read a script. I don't k ow how much softer they can be and still be pretending to their job.

TomOnBoard

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cheney was just a ruthless SOB and Bush was the perfect vessel.

IMHO, Trump is a 'useful idiot' for a wide range of interests, from Russia, Qatar and Saudi Arabia on the outside, to Big Pharma, Military/Industrial Complex, and above all, Trump/Kushner industries on the inside,. So, he is totally focused on maximising graft and grift for himself. That said, I really don't have a sense that Trump is immune to the daily deaths.

On the other hand, Cheney was/is a truly evil and psychopathic man who NEVER exhibited ANY humanity while hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who were MURDERED on foot of greviously falsified so-called 'evidence' of the existence of WMD, which ultimately resulted in the destruction of IRAQ and the rise of ISIS.

Cheney is an order of magnitude of evil ahead of Trump. By comparison, Trump is but a plodding donkey, whose braying can be argued against and sometimes countered. The utterances of the likes of Cheney were soo much more dangerous and life- threatening as to belong in a different, more dystopian world, and we should all be soooo grateful Cheney does not currently hold the levers of power...

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248333612212195328?s=19


Back to referring to his ratings, whilst hundreds of people are dying every day!? Wtf is going on?

The journalists should corner McConnell and pound him relentlessly with questions about how this is any way shape or form appropriate. Don't let him off the hook. One journalist after the other. Make him look ridiculous in his effort to defend him.

There's no ****ing point with Trump.

How anyone can say that he is mentally fit is utterly beyond me.

Jesus christ. It's.... I don't know. I give up.

wtf

BonnieSituation

I'm not going to watch tonight. I need to wean myself off it.

Water John

In recent days Iv'e found I can only watch a few minutes and have to shut it off. It would wear your humanity.

Gbear

Midlife wrote: »

Re: Bush. From 2001 to 2018, one estimate is that about half a million people were killed in Iraq, Afghanistan. About 250000 civilians in total.

Trump is utterly repulsive. A disgusting sleezy egotistical con man. I never cease to be amazed that anyone can hold him in any esteem whatsoever.

But his America First type of national socialism (they must come up with something shorter and snappier for that) will hurt mainly America in the long run. 20 years from now he'll be looked back at as the death knell of American expectionalism.

Trump is bad for America but Bush killed half a million people in the middle east and the region is still fu€ked.

So much of what we view as the performance of presidents is largely out of their hands.

I'm not at all absolving Bush, and to a lesser extent Obama, of their crimes agianst humanity, however, for Bush, he had a terrorism chrisis thrust upon him. I cannot say how much he is personally to blame for American neo-imperialism, but I don't think it's 100%.

On the opposite side of things, I think it's conceivable that Obama could've been a great president. He was hamstrung by the sociopathic, fascist policies of the modern Republican party. He was also handed a series of wars, the Arab Spring and other problems, that made for an unenviable brief.

Comparatively, it's been sunshine and rainbows for Trump. We are only now truly beginning to see the threat he poses to the US and humanity. If we emerge from Trump's tenure unscathed, it is only by the grace of historical accident giving him a period of relative financial and geopolitical calm.

If he was dealing with crises on the level of the the Cuban Missile Crisis, the world would likely be destroyed, and that is not hyperbolic.

Gbear

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Its been their No.1 strategy for decades now.

However, the Dems have been constantly playing 'go-high' politics ever since WWII, and have failed to deal with the structural failures in voting/election mechanics even when they have owned legislative majorities.

I accept that it is not easy to change the electoral rules in the USA. The original Constitution Framers' orientation towards entrusting voting rights to land/ property owners alone, to the exclusion of poor white and all former slaves and their descendants, haunts attempts at modern day hopes for democratic leveling.

The big 'dirty secret' in Republican politics is that they believe that 'The Great Unwashed' simply cannot be trusted with voting in relation to 'important things'. Hence, most attempts at making voting easier will be challenged at every turn by Republicans in Politics, Media and unfortunately in the Courts (ultimately vindicating Mitch Mc Connell's strategy of stonewalling Merrit Garland and more recently his stacking of the Courts incl. the SCOTUS). This will ensure continuation of the Republican strategy well into the 2030s and beyond.

Dems need to take both House and Senate as well as the White House in November and focus on sorting out this issue once and for all.

A lot of this is just down to having a better ground game.

There's so much ****ing money in politics, it's obscene. Part of what needs to be done with it, is to have constant pressure on people to be involved in politics, to fight legal battles against voter suppression, and so on and so forth. Maybe I'm doing past Democratic parties a disservice, but as far as I can make out, initiatives like Abrams' National Action are a relatively new phenomenon, at least at that scale.

If Bloomberg wants to fix the US, he can organise something similar for the whole country, (and arguably abroad), so that the foot is never off the peddle. Not in Georgia, where it's so lopsided, an election was stolen, and not in California, where it looks like it'll be Democrats from here until the end of time.

Some things you really can just throw money at, and a non-partisan effort to increase the quality of democracy is probably one of them.

Itssoeasy

I've stopped listening to msnbc podcasts of their evening shows because they are playing far to many clips of trump rambling on and making the square root of **** all sense when someone speaking sense and truth is what is needed.