Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Cody montana

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It will be 50k total deaths in US before the end of this week no matter what happens.

Nearly 1900 today.
Total 42,458.

If people defy the stay at home orders, it may increase.

Gunmonkey

aloyisious wrote: »

Did he just say "if we didn't have the guard up, AND HAD RIDDEN IT OUT we'd have had a million dead" after he advised in Feb/March to ride it out AND now suggesting to open things up again while railing against the governors who have the power to keep the GUARD UP by staying in lockdown? He's not just in denial, he's sick in the head.

But now he can paint himself as the "good guy" wanting to open the country back up and get the economy going, but those nasty mean bullies of Governors wont.

And he can use the potential million dead as a "look at what great a job I did, CNN and the fake news was saying we would have so many dead but no...I fixed it, all me....except if your out protesting, then its all the Governors fault"

Traditional "everything good was because of me, everything you didnt like was because of someone else" Trump attitude!

Mental Mickey

aloyisious wrote: »

Did he just say "if we didn't have the guard up, AND HAD RIDDEN IT OUT we'd have had a million dead" after he advised in Feb/March to ride it out AND now suggesting to open things up again while railing against the governors who have the power to keep the GUARD UP by staying in lockdown? He's not just in denial, he's sick in the head.

He's constantly contradicting himself

swampgas

Mental Mickey wrote: »

He's constantly contradicting himself

He's not (fully) rational. I have a close relative with mental health issues, and if he stops taking his medication he starts acting like Trump - delusional, self-agrandizing, inconsistent. It's not so much that he's lying as he gets detached from reality.

Trump reminds me of the same thing. He's not tethered to reality. He is delusional. He has minimal self-awareness. He gets angry when confronted. He has minimal impulse control.

What took me a long time to credit, was how little the GOP seem to care. He's their stooge and they will stand by him, crazy as he might be, rather than risk a Democrat getting into the White House instead.

Actual democracy is on its last legs in the US. It's become so partisan in the last 30 years, I think the US would be better off breaking up into Red and Blue states.

MadYaker

I can't believe he actually tweeted that meme with Obama and Biden :pac: it honestly got a laugh out of me. One of those is this real? moments. Just saw on twitter he's talking about testing at last. Thats good, maybe someone has finally convinced him its the fastest way to get the economy back on track.

amdublin

He has just suspended immigration to the States. Via Twitter.

This is a mad man. Willing to do anything to distract how badly he has handled this pandemic crisis.

And people will continue to die.

Midlife

Manic Moran wrote: »

If you wish to ignore the practical applications of firearms, then yes, your argument holds sway.

How about "I really like guns because that way it gives people who are not in the prime of their youth a viable defense option?" Doesn't have to be against people either, you'll easily find reports of people shooting dangerous wild animals in the US or Canada. Or does Ireland or France have mountain lions or feral hogs which routinely injure people? I'm 45 next month, my ability to take on a chap in his 20s or 30s is going to start rapidly going downhill.

It's not a position which is morally repugnant to Europeans, it just doesn't happen as often because Europeans often aren't permitted to use their firearms in such a manner in the first place. but it certainly happens.

[Edit. Regardless, we have this argument often enough, I'm sure we'll revisit it after the next American mass shooting (I note this week's Canadian one receives little attention). The question was asked what happened in Virginia, it was answered. If you guys don't like the American perspective on firearms, that's well and good, but that's the lay of the land here, so discussion must reflect it]

I think we're beyond the point where you can argue that guns are a positive influence in terms of safety.

It's OK though. Some people smoke and know its bad for them. They just like it.

A lot of Americans like guns.

everlast75

amdublin wrote: »

He has just suspended immigration to the States. Via Twitter.

This is a mad man. Willing to do anything to distract how badly he has handled this pandemic crisis.

And people will continue to die.

It is all about perceived enemies.

Scapegoats.

The agricultural sector relies substantially on immigration. Sticking it to the farmers once more to "own the libs", I guess?

Leroy42

There is no doubt that the protesters carrying their guns are doing it for intimidation. There are no mountain lions or grizzles going to be attacking them outside the courthouse.

Of course under the law they are entitled to have guns, but is there not a law against intimidation of the public or public officials?

Seems to me that these protesters view one law, right to guns, as greater than all other laws.

In terms of the oil price, let's not forget that Trump recently boasted about a price fixing deal he did with oil producing countries.

Professor Moriarty

amdublin wrote: »

He has just suspended immigration to the States. Via Twitter.

This is a mad man. Willing to do anything to distract how badly he has handled this pandemic crisis.

And people will continue to die.

Who in their right mind would want to emigrate to the US these days?

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who in their right mind would want to emigrate to the US these days?

What? America certainly has it problems but billions are living in real poverty, crushed by local and national crime lords and dictators, facing daily bombing and war.

Nody

Nody wrote: »

Well seeing how the protesters against the Covid isolation write on their trucks "Jesus is my vaccine" I think it's safe to say facts and figures don't play a big part in their daily life or worldview.

https://twitter.com/miguelmarquez/status/1252262768591491072

Remind me in 2 weeks to look at the Pennsylvania news.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

What? America certainly has it problems but billions are living in real poverty, crushed by local and national crime lords and dictators, facing daily bombing and war.

How many are on Boards or are living in Ireland?

Midlife

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who in their right mind would want to emigrate to the US these days?

Ah we get a very distorted view of it from here. Trump is rubbish, no doubt but we only hear the weird stuff.

For example, twice as many people live in Michegan as Ireland.

A few hundred people protest there and no-one much pays attention but its headlines here.

That's the level of gemma o'doherty or the keelings protest the other day.

hetuzozaho

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who in their right mind would want to emigrate to the US these days?

Some of the greatest cities in the world IMO. I'd imagine plenty would.

Have you been?

Dr. Bre

Great country . Once trump goes it will be even better

pixelburp

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Some of the greatest cities in the world IMO. I'd imagine plenty would.

Have you been?

Obviously can't speak to the user you were quoting: but I've been to New York; Chicago; Tuscon, Phoenix & environs of Arizona; New Mexico; and Las Vegas. Mixture of business & pleasure so while not an exhaustive list and skews urban (the latter effectively am incorporated theme park so lets ignore it), what I find remarkable about the cities I've been to is how tumbledown they feel. I recently watched a small doc. on America's crumbling infrastructure and travelling around Chicago a couple of times before & since, felt that first hand. America's too large to point to a single conclusion, but yeah, you can definitely see those ragged edges.

This lure or myth of the shiny, futuristic or advanced America feels redundant and false. The rest of the western world has caught up - economically, socially, technologically - and arguably surpasses US development. Like, London feels more the Land of Tomorrow than modern day America. IMO anyway, obviously. To the point where a city like Chicago felt deeply scruffy and kinda falling apart at the edges, such as the aforementioned infrastructural system (and IIRC, New Yorkers themselves will tell you about their subway desperately needing investment).

I've no idea what the J1 numbers are like, and god knows we've read of those weekending New York shopping trips (presumably dead & gone in a post-Covid world), but while I'd read of admiration for the scale and individual appeal of American cities, don't get a sense people want to live there either. Within my own utterly unscientific network mind

Cody montana

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Some of the greatest cities in the world IMO. I'd imagine plenty would.

Have you been?

What cities?

listermint

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Some of the greatest cities in the world IMO. I'd imagine plenty would.

Have you been?

Always enjoy the 'have you been? question' . Ive been to the US countless times all over business and personal. And frankly its not a location id ever choose to raise children in.

Its the place that if you are unfortunate enough to have a slight in life that any other western democracy you could climb out of the US provides no safety nets. Its as close to a liberalist paradise as they could get it.

And of course the gun thing is a big one for me. Any country that your kids have a real chance of being gunned down just for sitting in Geography lessons is an obvious no for me. But sure i was raised in Ireland where that's common sense. Alas ive found common sense seems to be not that common.

Quin_Dub

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Great country . Once trump goes it will be even better

I've spent a lot of time in the US of the last 20 or so years and there are some fantastic places to visit and see. There are also some pretty bloody bleak inner cities too.

The US is a wonderful place to be successful in , but it's a pretty poor place to be unsuccessful or even just average in.

The levels of inequality are incredibly stark and getting rapidly worse.

banie01

The good old have you been question!

Yes, as others have said both recreationally and professionally.
It is a Nation of glaring extremes. The "New" is privately owned, shiny, bright, bleeding edge! Also Expensive and resricted.

The actual "normal" however?
Well lets just take NY transport as an example? From Footpaths through to buses and the Subway.
Most European economic "capitals" are far better served.

Then if you head rural, where most towns not on Interstate rely on a combination of local taxes and state allocated funds for infrastructure.
Awful, and when I saw awful I mean mid 80's Ireland in some instances.
Much due to fragmented multi-level government and funding.

There is so much that the US does well, Government particularly at a regional level and National Infrastructure are not some of those things.
I posted a while ago in this thread that the Covid lockdown presents an opportunity for the US to drop the "Bailout" model in favour of the "Build" model, be it massive infrastructure, particularly regarding road and rail bridges that are approaching expiration.
Or some form of "green new deal" that would allow the GOP a chance to seem progressive.

None of those will be done, it will continue to be socialism for the corporations and hardship for far too many citizens.

pixelburp

Exactly. Notwithstanding the crumbling infrastructure, the fact there's a significant non-zero chance I or my family might get shot (location dependent), or that the "simplest" treatable illness might financially cripple us? To hell with that. In fact it would, right now: my partner has long-term issues that require on-off treatments. It's nothing life threatening, it's just there and a part of our life. And without the socialised medicine we have here, we'd be financially imperilled by now. America is a liberalist paradise for those lucky enough to live an unblemished life of monetary success or problem free health. No civil movement ever stood up and said "let's create a libertarian paradise!", that's for sure.

MAGA, to me, is nothing more than the wistful thinking of those trying to harken back to the 1950s: when America was the leader of the western world. The stats on that period for economy, industry & quality of life are staggering from what I've seen, but of course they were - most of Europe then was still rebuilding from WW2. Trump was always coming because for a significant portion of Americans, they've been left behind by the culmination of an individualistic society - but without the means or understanding as to an alternative (because "socialism" has been a by-word for evil, especially to those most infatuated with this MAGA myth)

Leroy42

IMO, the US was great, and still is great due to that previous level but is fast dropping. Other countries have caught up, things like the EU have created more equality in status economically.

There was that great segment of Newsroom speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU which touched on this. And yes it is made for TV but I think it touches on some of the issues facing the US

cilantro54

Of course, few Americans are dumb enough to spend their time sneering and running down other countries and peoples. Those that do are rightly regarded by most people as unpleasant nutjobs.

I guess Ireland has its unpleasant nutjobs that spend their time running down other countries and peoples too. Funny that.

In 25+ years in Texas, the only time I heard Americans saying "this is the greatest country on earth" is on Fox News. Interesting fact: every time a fox news presenter says "the U.S. is the greatest country on earth" a tiny little duck penis falls off and drifts to the bottom of a lake, never to be seen again.

salmocab

cilantro54 wrote: »

Of course, few Americans are dumb enough to spend their time sneering and running down other countries and peoples. Those that do are rightly regarded by most people as unpleasant nut jobs

Or they get elected president

cilantro54

salmocab wrote: »

Or they get elected president

Blah, blah. Looking down on the U.S. is a waste of energy. It's mindless, generalizing, posturing, sanctimonious, provincial clap trap; the mirror image of the worst rednecks.

Christy42

The only time I see people running down other people's countries is the president or one of the most watched news shows?

How are they outliers. That I just don't believe. Millions voted for Trump. Millions tune in and pay attention to fox news. I am betting on many holding those opinions.

Notice the US got less stick with Obama as president. If your public face to the world doesn't spend most of their time insulting everyone else you receive far fewer insults in return. Funny that.

pixelburp

cilantro54 wrote: »

Blah, blah. Looking down on the U.S. is a waste of energy. It's mindless, generalizing, posturing, sanctimonious, provincial clap trap; the mirror image of the worst rednecks.

Nobody's looking down on it; but the question was asked "have you been?", and so people have said "yes" and offered their perspectives - including my own. America feels like a once "great" country stuck in gear, and in some cases, stumbling backwards in terms of investment or progress. MAGA then is a crystallisation of the myth of American primacy that doesn't exist anymore. Not like the decline of the Rust Belt isn't well documented, that it was the source of Trump's growth is easy to identify as to the why.

America's too big to find a one-size-fits-all generalisation so don't presume anyone here's that kneejerk, but based on experiences across the nation, the frayed edges are visible enough. And its flaws in terms of what it might offer those choosing to move don't make it worth the risk. Again, speaking personally.

cilantro54

Christy42, I think a lot of people imagine they are doing politics when in fact they are merely doing aesthetics and following the herd. Obama got less stick for superficial reasons and because of widespread media support, despite the his drone wars and his fondness for interring people at the border.

Also, if you think the President represents the lives of ordinary Americans most of whom are not obsessed with politics and the point scoring that goes with it, then your view will be based on ignorance.. brought to you 2nd or 3rd hand by whatever cable news rubbish you (not you personally) fill your head with.

Midlife

cilantro54 wrote: »

Blah, blah. Looking down on the U.S. is a waste of energy. It's mindless, generalizing, posturing, sanctimonious, provincial clap trap; the mirror image of the worst rednecks.

This is a good point.

Much of America is great and what made America great was that it was the first country where most of the people were middle class.

What's ****ing it up is the end of that situation. Its becoming more and more polarised in terms of economics which is exactly the opposite of what made it great.

Either they realise that free market capitalism has gone a bit too far and while providing for the few is actually hurting the nation as a whole... or they don't realise that in which case I for one welcome our new Chinese overlords.