Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

pixelburp

I don't watch the press conferences as they stream, but tune in the following morning to see the latest inanity. Watching Dr. Brix's mind break in real time was fascinating. That rapid blinking is a real tell of someone desperately keeping still, trying not to let real feeling slip. But that frustration has to go somewhere & it usually does, straight to the eyelids.

But. Consider.

It's worth pointing out BTW one key aspect of Trump's personality on show throughout this: we're at .... what? The second full month of serious business yes? Think for a second how little Trump has learned in terms of behaviour, composure or output.

In that space of time, he has made no changes, improvements, alterations - any hint of self-discovery, awareness or development. That's kinda astonishing when you step back from the deadening effect this man has on your senses. Let's say you or I took charge of the US for this crisis. Chances are, our first pressers would have been a total disaster; we'd be floundering, blathering and - yeah - probably acting not to dissimilar to Trump. Rabbit in headlights stuff.

But we'd learn: maybe we'd keep our part to a minimum; maybe we'd bone up on the basics of virology and medical science; maybe we'd simply pivot to emotional, stirring speeches to aim for that "fight them on the beaches" moment to keep the nation hopeful. One way or the other, we'd get better at the job, even if it was to step back and let the experts take over.

Yet none of this has happened. How immune or incapable of self-reflection does a human have to be to plough forward with the same bullsh*t in the middle of an existential crisis like this? The answer it seems is: Donald Trump. I get he is a man bursting with braggadocio but to have shown no intellectual contrition - even as the bodies have piled up - is quite a thing to behold. I almost - almost - admire the man's consistency. His insecure arrogance is costing lives, yet here we are, same Donald, still bulling on regardless, incapable of growth.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Midlife wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is against the charter but at what point do we get to say, 'yes, he's an idiot'.

The more I see the more I come to the conclusion that he's not that bright.

He's not intelligent in a conventional manner. But there's something conniving about his ability to manipulate about half the American population to support him "no matter what" as has been noted. Plus his ability to spout absolute gibberish and nonsense continuously, along with rudely treating anybody who questions or challenges him shows a knowledge of what connects with that significant portion of the population; that "I'm always right, I know it all, I am omnipotent and powerful" person who will stubbornly and resolutely withstand challenge is like a skewed archetype of the 'American dream'.

mcmoustache

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Trumps 2 biggest supporters on here will be on shortly to tell you "what he really meant" and that he has "misspoken" (something he tends to do every night with his ridiculous testing claim) and how he is in fact right! Be prepared for links to various (very dubious) pro Trump sites that will of course have tenuous (to say the least) "evidence" that what he is saying is plausible.

Breitbart are already making that claim so once it's been laundered through the Fox news, Daily Caller, John Soloman and Mollie Hemmingway types, we should expect to see it here soon afterwards.

Toeuptony

frag420 wrote: »

Busy buying sun beds, syringes and bleach most likely...

Could that be why Trump hasn't been infected up to now, despite being in close contact with Bolsonaro's crew in Mar-a-Lago and others who have contracted the virus?

aloyisious

Cody montana wrote: »

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. And is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? It would be interesting to check that. That you're gonna have to use medical doctors with."

His supporters are going to drink bleach, aren't they?

Like : is he hearing something and giving his own take on it "they're wiping down surfaces to get rid of it so that works, so if they instead inject..... cant really blame this on Dr Google. It's like he worked out the logical answer: what works good on surfaces doesn't work so good inside humans, doesn't like the answer and comes up with another that sounds more logical in his mind.

Hermy

pixelburp wrote: »

It's worth pointing out BTW one key aspect of Trump's personality on show throughout this: we're at .... what? The second full month of serious business yes? Think for a second how little Trump has learned in terms of behaviour, composure or output.

Great point well made.

Do you think perhaps it's squeamishness?
That quite literally he doesn't have the stomach for it and will do anything he can to deflect from the true reality of this pandemic.

reg114

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

He's not intelligent in a conventional manner. But there's something conniving about his ability to manipulate about half the American population to support him "no matter what" as has been noted. Plus his ability to spout absolute gibberish and nonsense continuously, along with rudely treating anybody who questions or challenges him shows a knowledge of what connects with that significant portion of the population; that "I'm always right, I know it all, I am omnipotent and powerful" person who will stubbornly and resolutely withstand challenge is like a skewed archetype of the 'American dream'.

There's a terrific article explaining Trump's psychology, I'll link below, but it points to Trump's malignant narcissism, paranoia, megalomania and to his being mentally ill. He is however very astute at pitching his message to his equally deluded core voters who worship him in the same manner as members of a cult worship their leader. Trump's message is easy for his followers to digest because his delivery is infantile in its simplicity, its repetitive, staccato and full of deflection, assumptions, rhetorical questions. He is the ultimate snake oil salesman and inveterate pathological liar, a very dangerous one at that.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/22/joining-up-the-dots-shows-the-true-depths-of-trump-s-dangerous-narcissistic-pathology-view

Stallingrad

Let's say you were looking to hire a Trump type for a job, nothing fancy, just your average 9-5 job with no real responsibility. Would he turn up on time, would he follow though, would he get on with workmates, could he work independently? I'd have real concerns that he would not make it through the first day IF you risked hiring him.

This is the guy that holds the most powerful office in the world. This can't be let happen again.

banie01

I remember as a teen, thinking that if they knew that nonoxyl-9 or whatever it was that was used as an spermicidal in condoms killed HIV...
Why didn't they inject it in AIDs patients!

Or and I was very proud of this notion!
Hook patients up to dialysis with an additional Nonoxyl-9 filter to clean the blood before pumping it back into the patient.

Then 2nd year started and we learned about the effect of bleach and how it worked on biology and cells.

So at 13, I had my Nobel prize winning moment!
At 14 I found out my brain wave was basically stupid, and that killing 1 type of biological cell or virus whilst leaving the system intact was the trick...
That scorched earth wasn't medicine!

That this man sat in a meeting with his SME's and still came out and floated this as a treatment "idea" is criminal.

Still, at least he didn't take on everything else that bleach cures or recommend a specific brand

PropJoe10

Just watched him saying those words and I still don't really believe that the president of the US said that. Tell me that it's a bad dream or a mistake.

Professor Moriarty

Until a few years ago, Trump was constantly tweeting that vaccination caused autism. I wonder how many people did that stupidity kill.

PropJoe10

Hermy wrote: »

Great point well made.

Do you think perhaps it's squeamishness?
That quite literally he doesn't have the stomach for it and will do anything he can to deflect from the true reality of this pandemic.

I think his general behaviour is simply down to the fact that he's a 74 year old man that's never had anyone question him throughout his life. He's been king of his own castle for so long that he's unable to actually listen to anyone or adapt to anything outside of his own existence.

Throw in an obvious case of narcissistic personality disorder and you've got the whole package. He's not fit to run a local library never mind a country in a time of national crisis. If the Senate had any stomach they'd remove him under the 25th Amendment before he costs more American lives.

reg114

reg114 wrote: »

There's a terrific article explaining Trump's psychology, I'll link below, but it points to Trump's malignant narcissism, paranoia, megalomania and to his being mentally ill. He is however very astute at pitching his message to his equally deluded core voters who worship him in the same manner as members of a cult worship their leader. Trump's message is easy for his followers to digest because his delivery is infantile in its simplicity, its repetitive, staccato and full of deflection, assumptions, rhetorical questions. He is the ultimate snake oil salesman and inveterate pathological liar, a very dangerous one at that.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/22/joining-up-the-dots-shows-the-true-depths-of-trump-s-dangerous-narcissistic-pathology-view

He doesn't need half the population, he needs about 45% of votes. With a turnout around 55% he needs about 26% of the eligible vote. May seem like splitting hairs but it's important to remember.
Also important to remember is a Sideshow Bob quite I've posted a few times over the last couple of years.

Because you need me, Springfield. Your guilty conscience may move you to vote Democratic, but deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king. That's why I did this, to save you from yourselves.

Carfacemandog

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I think his general behaviour is simply down to the fact that he's a 74 year old man that's never had anyone question him throughout his life. He's been king of his own castle for so long that he's unable to actually listen to anyone or adapt to anything outside of his own existence.

Throw in an obvious case of narcissistic personality disorder and you've got the whole package. He's not fit to run a local library never mind a country in a time of national crisis. If the Senate had any stomach they'd remove him under the 25th Amendment before he costs more American lives.

To be honest I don't agree with the second part insomuchas as it's not a case of the Republicans lacking the stomach to remove him, as them simply not wanting to. I am sure there are some exceptions among them who do lack said stomach, but for the most part they are happy to go along with all this and let him make an arse out of themselves, as long as they get to line their pockets in the process.

Time and again we have heard that trum pis the symptom and not the disease (a little ironic at this very point in time), the cause and not the effect, and so on and so on. This is somewhat true, but only because the disease has been an outright and unashamed attack on the psyche, education and ability to think of a large swathes of the American people by the Republican party, dating back to Barry Goldwater and ramping up significantly at intervals since then (Raegan, Gingrich and Co in Congress, Bush, Tea Party and finally Trumps unashamed fascism), as well as repeated assaults on the very concept of democracy itself.

The water has been rotten for a long time, and the republican party have continued to intentionally pour more and Koren sewage into it. Eventually, enough of that sewage festered long enough for Trump to grow out of it like some kind of swamp monster.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't watch the press conferences as they stream, but tune in the following morning to see the latest inanity. Watching Dr. Brix's mind break in real time was fascinating. That rapid blinking is a real tell of someone desperately keeping still, trying not to let real feeling slip. But that frustration has to go somewhere & it usually does, straight to the eyelids.

But. Consider.

It's worth pointing out BTW one key aspect of Trump's personality on show throughout this: we're at .... what? The second full month of serious business yes? Think for a second how little Trump has learned in terms of behaviour, composure or output.

In that space of time, he has made no changes, improvements, alterations - any hint of self-discovery, awareness or development. That's kinda astonishing when you step back from the deadening effect this man has on your senses. Let's say you or I took charge of the US for this crisis. Chances are, our first pressers would have been a total disaster; we'd be floundering, blathering and - yeah - probably acting not to dissimilar to Trump. Rabbit in headlights stuff.

But we'd learn: maybe we'd keep our part to a minimum; maybe we'd bone up on the basics of virology and medical science; maybe we'd simply pivot to emotional, stirring speeches to aim for that "fight them on the beaches" moment to keep the nation hopeful. One way or the other, we'd get better at the job, even if it was to step back and let the experts take over.

Yet none of this has happened. How immune or incapable of self-reflection does a human have to be to plough forward with the same bullsh*t in the middle of an existential crisis like this? The answer it seems is: Donald Trump. I get he is a man bursting with braggadocio but to have shown no intellectual contrition - even as the bodies have piled up - is quite a thing to behold. I almost - almost - admire the man's consistency. His insecure arrogance is costing lives, yet here we are, same Donald, still bulling on regardless, incapable of growth.

Well put.

But one could extrapolate this "refusal to learn" to a bigger problem for him - re-election for 2020.

Since 2016 he has done some god awful stuff. And he has learned absolutely nothing from it. Consider the day after Mueller testified, he picked up the phone and committed (another) impeachable act.

He has not expanded his base whatsoever - he is not winning people over with his ham-fisted ruling style. He is losing people and he is not changing course.

There has never been a moment where one could say he grew into the role, 3.5 years later.

That is a large problem for him.

Drumpot

SNIP. Do not just paste videos here please.

PropJoe10

Carfacemandog wrote: »

To be honest I don't agree with the second part insomuchas as it's not a case of the Republicans lacking the stomach to remove him, as them simply not wanting to. I am sure there are some exceptions among them who do lack said stomach, but for the most part they are happy to go along with all this and let him make an arse out of themselves, as long as they get to line their pockets in the process.

Time and again we have heard that trum pis the symptom and not the disease (a little ironic at this very point in time), the cause and not the effect, and so on and so on. This is somewhat true, but only because the disease has been an outright and unashamed attack on the psyche, education and ability to think of a large swathes of the American people by the Republican party, dating back to Barry Goldwater and ramping up significantly at intervals since then (Raegan, Gingrich and Co in Congress, Bush, Tea Party and finally Trumps unashamed fascism), as well as repeated assaults on the very concept of democracy itself.

The water has been rotten for a long time, and the republican party have continued to intentionally pour more and Koren sewage into it. Eventually, enough of that sewage festered long enough for Trump to grow out of it like some kind of swamp monster.

I take your point indeed. Either way, it's about time at least some of them stood up and actually did what's best for the country for a change. Trump is a clear and present danger to the lives of American citizens and every day that's he's allowed to remain in office is an insult.

ancapailldorcha

Some posts have been deleted and sanctions issued. There's only so many times we can ask people not to be uncivil towards other posters.

Leroy42

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

He's not intelligent in a conventional manner. But there's something conniving about his ability to manipulate about half the American population to support him "no matter what" as has been noted. Plus his ability to spout absolute gibberish and nonsense continuously, along with rudely treating anybody who questions or challenges him shows a knowledge of what connects with that significant portion of the population; that "I'm always right, I know it all, I am omnipotent and powerful" person who will stubbornly and resolutely withstand challenge is like a skewed archetype of the 'American dream'.

Anywhere we would call that a bully and an ars3hole.

Penn

It's amazing how you wake up, say "I think I'll check how Trump's latest press briefing went" and one of the first things you read is "The makers of Dettol have had to issue a press release saying you shouldn't inject its products into your veins"... seems like his press briefing went better than usual.

pixelburp

Hermy wrote: »

Great point well made.

Do you think perhaps it's squeamishness?
That quite literally he doesn't have the stomach for it and will do anything he can to deflect from the true reality of this pandemic.

Perhaps, but again it doesn't account for the singular inability to grow or evolve past a starting point of panic or bluffing. We can all spoof up to a certain point, if we're feeling out of our depth or squeamish, but eventually something clicks. We either give up, passing the buck, or knuckle down and discover the pivot point.

After 2 approximate months of full-on Crisis Mode, Trump has failed to develop at all. That's a genuinely astonishing situation to witness of a full-grown adult. The stubborn refusal to develop, the lack of intellectual curiosity is incredible - more so to see it in a political leader.

Itssoeasy

So the president of the United States did in fact suggest that bleach is used in some way to fight coronavirus and a manufacturer of the stuff had to release a statement reminding people that bleach is not for human ingestion. George W Bush is a looking like a genius.

aloyisious

pixelburp wrote: »

Perhaps, but again it doesn't account for the singular inability to grow or evolve past a starting point of panic or bluffing. We can all spoof up to a certain point, if we're feeling out of our depth or squeamish, but eventually something clicks. We either give up, passing the buck, or knuckle down and discover the pivot point.

After 2 approximate months of full-on Crisis Mode, Trump has failed to develop at all. That's a genuinely astonishing situation to witness of a full-grown adult. The stubborn refusal to develop, the lack of intellectual curiosity is incredible - more so to see it in a political leader.

The idiom "you cant teach an old dog new tricks" clearly applies.

Christy42

pixelburp wrote: »

Perhaps, but again it doesn't account for the singular inability to grow or evolve past a starting point of panic or bluffing. We can all spoof up to a certain point, if we're feeling out of our depth or squeamish, but eventually something clicks. We either give up, passing the buck, or knuckle down and discover the pivot point.

After 2 approximate months of full-on Crisis Mode, Trump has failed to develop at all. That's a genuinely astonishing situation to witness of a full-grown adult. The stubborn refusal to develop, the lack of intellectual curiosity is incredible - more so to see it in a political leader.

He has gone the other way entirely. I get wanting an out and jumping on the first drug that shows promise. I don't agree with it but I get why someone unwilling to listen to advice and has no understanding of anything medical would go there.

Injecting disinfectant is about 20 orders of magnitude dumber. This is beyond you are not qualified to lead, this is I would not trust him to not hurt himself by mistake if left without care level.

Drumpot

pixelburp wrote: »

Perhaps, but again it doesn't account for the singular inability to grow or evolve past a starting point of panic or bluffing. We can all spoof up to a certain point, if we're feeling out of our depth or squeamish, but eventually something clicks. We either give up, passing the buck, or knuckle down and discover the pivot point.

After 2 approximate months of full-on Crisis Mode, Trump has failed to develop at all. That's a genuinely astonishing situation to witness of a full-grown adult. The stubborn refusal to develop, the lack of intellectual curiosity is incredible - more so to see it in a political leader.

Do you think Trump is lowering himself to his supporters or is he really not as intelligent as he looks? I’ve never seen him once in any public setting and thought he’s a clever lad.

He is a person who has been gifted his fortune and used it to build up a fake persona of somebody who embodies success. I’ve seen suggestions that he would have more money if he has just invested his inheritance in a basic retirement fund when he got it! He doesn’t need to prove himself to anybody as he only works with people who massage his ego. He made a success out of having a tv show where he sacks people and it seems like he’s using his POTUS position in a very similar fashion. I didn’t imagine he could be as bad as he is being but he’s just a steroid boosted version of himself.

I remember watching videos of Sarah Palin supporters who looked as informed as her but they had a very similar kind of mindset to Trumps. That’s why I found that link of Trump supporters so interesting and amusing, the comparison is remarkable because the same ignorance and belligerence is there. I suppose they have the Republican Party in common but is it that all the less then intelligent people follow that party? I’m not saying there aren’t idiots or bad people in democrats but you seldom see so many different mass collection of them.

How do you take down a person like Trump? He’s such a joke it’s hard to know where to start and insults bounce off clowns. Rational debate on the man is simply impossible because those who defend him don’t engage , they deflect and while slagging him may be the only satisfying way to address him, he’s actually a really dangerous person.

sydthebeat

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you think Trump is lowering himself to his supporters or is he really not as intelligent as he looks?.

he doesnt look intelligent ???

and even at that, no hes not as intelligent as the level of stupid he looks.

Drumpot

sydthebeat wrote: »

he doesnt look intelligent ???

and even at that, no hes not as intelligent as the level of stupid he looks.

I could of worded that better. Even talking/thinking about the man lowers IQs.

I was just wondering if he’s a thick as he looks/sounds or if part of it is that he’s pandering to his audience/supporters.

Inquitus

Drumpot wrote: »

I remember watching videos of Sarah Palin supporters who looked as informed as her but they had a very similar kind of mindset to Trumps. That’s why I found that link of Trump supporters so interesting and amusing, the comparison is remarkable because the same ignorance and belligerence is there. I suppose they have the Republican Party in common but is it that all the less then intelligent people follow that party? I’m not saying there aren’t idiots or bad people in democrats but you seldom see so many different mass collection of them.

How do you take down a person like Trump? He’s such a joke it’s hard to know where to start and insults bounce off clowns. Rational debate on the man is simply impossible because those who defend him don’t engage , they deflect and while slagging him may be the only satisfying way to address him, he’s actually a really dangerous person.

The education system in the USA is a mess if you are born into poor circumstances, getting a quality education is almost impossible, and the vicious cycle continues. These people are not well educated, there are a huge percentage of them in the population and largely they all vote. Trump's base will not even blink after his verbal diarrhea last night, and they will line up for hours to vote for him again in November.

Quin_Dub

It's interesting to note , but not in any way surprising that of pretty much any global news media site you could pick in the world the only ones not mentioning Trumps discussion of Disinfectant and light therapy are FoxNews and Breitbart.

However both prominently feature attacks on Gretchen Whitmer. In fact almost half of the items on the Main section of the Fox News website are about Whitmer.

The restrictions implemented by Whitmer aren't particularly more stringent than many other states , but it's Whitmer they are going after for implementing a "Police State" and "Tearing up the Constitution" etc.

Not Pritzger in Illinois , not Cuomo in NY , not Newsome in California - Whitmer , from Michigan.

So, it's not because she's a Democrat. It might be because Michigan is a potential swing state...

But , I think just like the constant attacks on Ocasio-Cortez , it's mostly because she's a woman.

What it is about right-wing Americans that makes them so terrified of Women in authority?

Drumpot

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It's interesting to note , but not in any way surprising that of pretty much any global news media site you could pick in the world the only ones not mentioning Trumps discussion of Disinfectant and light therapy are FoxNews and Breitbart.

However both prominently feature attacks on Gretchen Whitmer. In fact almost half of the items on the Main section of the Fox News website are about Whitmer.

The restrictions implemented by Whitmer aren't particularly more stringent than many other states , but it's Whitmer they are going after for implementing a "Police State" and "Tearing up the Constitution" etc.

Not Pritzger in Illinois , not Cuomo in NY , not Newsome in California - Whitmer , from Michigan.

So, it's not because she's a Democrat. It might be because Michigan is a potential swing state...

But , I think just like the constant attacks on Ocasio-Cortez , it's mostly because she's a woman.

What it is about right-wing Americans that makes them so terrified of Women in authority?

They also appear to be terrified of intelligence, logic and science.

I remember a good friend of mine explaining one of the reason Bush was able to get one over on Carey was that during debates more people could identify with Bushes simple responses. Carey was, in short, coming across too intelligent and so many couldn’t identify with him. Bush - Palin - Trump, all use quite simple language which appears to resonate with the base.