Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

salmocab

Blueshoe wrote: »

No there are enough Coronavirus Trump threads and discussion. There are other things to talk about

There really shouldn’t though especially nonsense stuff about the moon while people are dying in their thousands.

Blueshoe

salmocab wrote: »

There really shouldn’t though especially nonsense stuff about the moon while people are dying in their thousands.

There must be thousands of different threads on boards too that are about non Coronavirus topics.

Water John

Trump is holding a press conference with the Florida Gov in the minute. This was not on his original schedule. He's breaking out again.

salmocab

Blueshoe wrote: »

There must be thousands of different threads on boards too that are about non Coronavirus topics.

I meant in relation to Trump, he shouldn’t be doing this sort of rubbish at the moment, it’s ridiculous. I know he’s neither use nor ornament but he supposed to be in charge of a country at war as he put it and he’s wasting people’s time signing off on mining rights that aren’t even on the planet.

Blueshoe

salmocab wrote: »

I meant in relation to Trump, he shouldn’t be doing this sort of rubbish at the moment, it’s ridiculous. I know he’s neither use nor ornament but he supposed to be in charge of a country at war as he put it and he’s wasting people’s time signing off on mining rights that aren’t even on the planet.

He did it on the 4th April. It's a country of 300 million. Lots to do. He's not on the frontline treating patients with bleach injections.

salmocab

Blueshoe wrote: »

He did it on the 4th April. It's a country of 300 million. Lots to do. He's not on the frontline treating patients with bleach injections.

Yes lots to do undoubtedly but that didn’t need doing in fact it didn’t even need to be looked at because it’s not something that needs real attention for years. He should be prioritising what’s going on in the country and leading from the front not faffing about signing irrelevant orders that won’t make a jot of difference to anyone’s lives for a very long time. Maybe if he spent more time getting real information instead of this crap he’d not be on a podium daily saying things that have a large portion of the world sniggering at.

Blueshoe

salmocab wrote: »

Yes lots to do undoubtedly but that didn’t need doing in fact it didn’t even need to be looked at because it’s not something that needs real attention for years. He should be prioritising what’s going on in the country and leading from the front not faffing about signing irrelevant orders that won’t make a jot of difference to anyone’s lives for a very long time. Maybe if he spent more time getting real information instead of this crap he’d not be on a podium daily saying things that have a large portion of the world sniggering at.

He signed this on the same day. It's not about Coronavirus or space though.

Establishing the Committee for the Assessment of Foreign Participation in the United States Telecommunications Services Sector

The world keeps on turning.

salmocab

Blueshoe wrote: »

He signed this on the same day. It's not about Coronavirus or space though.

Establishing the Committee for the Assessment of Foreign Participation in the United States Telecommunications Services Sector

The world keeps on turning.

I’m not sure your making any point there

Blueshoe

salmocab wrote: »

I’m not sure your making any point there

There is more going on than the Coronavirus is my point. The world continues to turn and there are other jobs to be done

salmocab

Blueshoe wrote: »

There is more going on than the Coronavirus is my point. The world continues to turn and there are other jobs to be done

Yes I didn’t say he should be only doing one thing, I said he shouldn’t be wasting time doing things that are completely irrelevant and don’t need doing for a long time.

Gunmonkey

Water John wrote: »

Trump is holding a press conference with the Florida Gov in the minute. This was not on his original schedule. He's breaking out again.

Dont tell me....easing of restrictions in Florida, golf courses (or at least one particular golf course) is open for business so everyone come, and remember in November who it was that helped organise this early reopening, such a beautiful reopening, one of the best reopenings ever!

bocaman

The Trump Presidency is a danger to Americans. That's being charitable.

Blueshoe

salmocab wrote: »

Yes I didn’t say he should be only doing one thing, I said he shouldn’t be wasting time doing things that are completely irrelevant and don’t need doing for a long time.

Fair enough. Maybe it was scheduled in to be signed off on that date along with the other one. The legals were ready and just needed a signature. The Us government is huge. Him signing the document is only a tiny part of the process.

I don't think it's just thought up in the spot , drafted, signed and put in the desk drawer

Toeuptony

It seems as if the new WH press secretary is on top of her job. From the Guardian live blog:

White House says press conference is actually a pool spray
The White House now says press secretary Kayleigh McEnany’s tweet about Trump’s press conference with the governor of Florida was actually referring to a pool spray.

It should be noted that a press conference and a pool spray are two very different things. A press conference gives reporters from a number of outlets the chance to question the president on camera, while a pool spray is restricted to the White House press pool that is on duty today.

The confusion over the press conference comes a day after the White House scheduled then canceled then rescheduled its daily briefing on the coronavirus response.

And could they choose a term that sounds less like a domestic cleaning activity. Granted that is probably a legacy term, but considering the current situation it sounds a little unsanitary.

kowloon

Blueshoe wrote: »

Also one metallic type asteroid 1.6 km in diameter would hold up to 20 trillion USD in industrial and prescious metals.

No doubt there's plenty of wealth out there, but getting it back to Earth is the problem. Space seems to be as much the domain of corporations as nations these days.

salmocab

Blueshoe wrote: »

Fair enough. Maybe it was scheduled in to be signed off on that date along with the other one. The legals were ready and just needed a signature. The Us government is huge. Him signing the document is only a tiny part of the process.

Oh undoubtedly him signing off is tiny but he is hardly signing off in things that he’s not being briefed on fully even if it was something he gave the frame of the go ahead. He either spent some time getting the ins and outs of what he was about to sign or he didn’t and neither is a good thing.

Quin_Dub

salmocab wrote: »

Oh undoubtedly him signing off is tiny but he is hardly signing off in things that he’s not being briefed on fully even if it was something he gave the frame of the go ahead. He either spent some time getting the ins and outs of what he was about to sign or he didn’t and neither is a good thing.

I wouldn't be altogether certain about that to be honest..

Once one of his inner circle tell him "Your base will love this" or "We can make money off this" I'm fairly confident he'd sign anything.

Itssoeasy

I do find it funny in a way when supporters of Donald trump in this thread and on fox and other places favourable to him say that everyone else is fake news or is making stuff up. It misses the point in that Donald Trump as president has a major advantage over any other politician in the US and the world, in that he has the White House press room which if it appears on the schedule will be covered in some form by the news networks in the US and around the world.

Also he can say whatever he wants or doesn't want to say and he gets to say it however he wants to. So it's not anyone else's fault when Donald trump says something stupid. It's his fault despite him seemingly having no willingness to be at fault for anything ever.

aloyisious

There's an article by the A.P. on MSN [headline - new chance for House Democrats to force McGahns testimony] about the attempts by Congress to get Don McGahn, Don Trumps former W/House personal lawyer, to testify at a committee hearing in the pre-impeachment hearing era, now continuing to make its way through the Federal Courts appeals system. The article makes specific mention of the make-up of the courts [PLURAL] different sittings.

It seems the Appeals Court for the DC Circuit is to hold a 9 judge sitting to decide the issue. The full court held a preliminary sitting a while back in which it threw out a prior 2-judge [a third judge dissenting] court ruling that it was not for it to decide between Congress and the Admin on the issue of President Trump's instruction to his staff to ignore Congressional subpoenas.

The 1st 3 judge sitting apparently decided it couldn't hear the case on the basis that the constitution prevented Federal courts from hearing cases between the other 2 arms of Govt consisted of 2 Republican-appointed judges [Thomas Griffith and Karen Henderson] and 1 Dem-appointed judge [Judith Rogers], The Dem judge was the dissenting judge in that ruling.

The upcoming sitting, according to the article, will have 9 of the 11 Appeal Court judges taking the hearing by telephone conference and described the court as Democrat-dominated. Two of the courts judges, [Judges Gregory Katsas and Neomi Rao - both Trump appointees], are described as not taking part in the case.

It's fairly certain that, if the sitting decides it is correct for Federal courts to hear cases of differences between the two other arms of Govt, that decision will probably be appealed by Bill Barr to the U.S.S.C. which itself is also a Federal Court. The Supreme Court of the United States in Washington, D.C. is the highest court in the nation. It is also the only federal court named specifically in the Constitution, which states that, “The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court.”

I'm not sure if that constitutional mention is why the original 2-judge sitting decided it couldn't hear the case, thinking the U.S.S.C was the only Federal Court capable of deciding on rows between the other two arms of Govt, but it would mean [IMO] that no other federal court could hear such cases, regardless of the level or dispute involved, which would make nonsense of the courts themselves.

Quin_Dub

aloyisious wrote: »

There's an article by the A.P. on MSN about the attempts by Congress to get Don McGahn, Don Trumps former W/House personal lawyer, to testify at a committee hearing in the pre-impeachment hearing era, now continuing to make its way through the Federal Courts appeals system. The article makes specific mention of the make-up of the courts [PLURAL] different sittings.

It seems the Appeals Court for the DC Circuit is to hold a 9 judge sitting to decide the issue. The full court held a preliminary sitting a while back in which it threw out a prior 2-judge [a third judge dissenting] court ruling that it was not for it to decide between Congress and the Admin on the issue of President Trump's instruction to his staff to ignore Congressional subpoenas.

The 1st 3 judge sitting apparently decided it couldn't hear the case on the basis that the constitution prevented Federal courts from hearing cases between the other 2 arms of Govt consisted of 2 Republican-appointed judges [Thomas Griffith and Karen Henderson] and 1 Dem-appointed judge [Judith Rogers], The Dem judge was the dissenting judge in that ruling.

The upcoming sitting, according to the article, will have 9 of the 11 Appeal Court judges taking the hearing by telephone conference and described the court as Democrat-dominated. Two of the courts judges, [Judges Gregory Katsas and Neomi Rao - both Trump appointees], are described as not taking part in the case.

It's fairly certain that, if the sitting decides it is correct for Federal courts to hear cases of differences between the two other arms of Govt, that decision will probably be appealed by Bill Barr to the U.S.S.C. which itself is also a Federal Court. The Supreme Court of the United States in Washington, D.C. is the highest court in the nation. It is also the only federal court named specifically in the Constitution, which states that, “The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court.”

That case is massively important for the United States.


Setting aside the specific Trump-centric element of the case and viewing the wider implications , if the original ruling stands and it is taken that the courts cannot intervene in disagreements between the branches of Government then it effectively breaks their system of governance and oversight.

It means any one branch can do whatever the hell it wants and there's nothing the other branches can do about it. That should terrify everyone regardless of political persuasion.

Yes it's Trump in the cross-hairs right now , but if this holds then nothing will ever work again in the US.

TomOnBoard

Blueshoe wrote: »

No there are enough Coronavirus Trump threads and discussion. There are other things to talk about

There are always other things to talk about. However, this thread is about the Trump Presidency. His Presidency has been characterised by self-proclaimed omniscience, self-aggrandisement, self-congratulating, self-serving, self-interest, self-loving attempts at becoming King of his subjects rather than President of the People.

The Coronavirus pandemic has highlighted how inept he is and how his appalling character flaws have led to extremely poor management of the fallout from the pandemic, especially in its earlier days. A complete lack of appropriate preparatory action in February while he ginned up his base at virus- spreading rallies is just one example of how he totally failed. And, all this while he was being told in the PDB that a viral fire was raging across the world since at least January and possibly as early as November last year. However, given that he is reported as not even reading the PDB, why would we be surprised when he fails to be informed by its contents.

So, the entire Trump Presidency can be judged through the lens of his repeated failings. He is President of a country whose population is some 330 million, but only ever focuses on fewer than half of them, just because the other more than half didn't vote for him. Even within the half he does focus upon, the vast bulk are just bodies he hopes to use to keep his hold on power come November. Other than his primary focus on his own corrupt Trump dynasty, his actions are oriented mostly at maintaining the wealth and power of the top few percenters. Everyone else is basically just fodder to his greed.

So, maybe that's why we need to continue to call out Trump's pathetic coronavirus response and the tens of thousands who are dying daily on his watch while he tries to minimise the reality of the pandemic on the ground and adopts hard-partisan political manoeuvres in the relief packages the country needs. A brief deflection to collecting moon-dust may occasionally provide some light relief, but any more than that is just a straight-forward 'Look!!! Over There!!!' changing of the subject.

aloyisious

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That case is massively important for the United States.


Setting aside the specific Trump-centric element of the case and viewing the wider implications , if the original ruling stands and it is taken that the courts cannot intervene in disagreements between the branches of Government then it effectively breaks their system of governance and oversight.

It means any one branch can do whatever the hell it wants and there's nothing the other branches can do about it. That should terrify everyone regardless of political persuasion.

Yes it's Trump in the cross-hairs right now , but if this holds then nothing will ever work again in the US.

Probably the point made by the dissenting judge against the decision of the other two judges that Federal Courts could not hear such cases, the two deliberately trying to bar [or delay or interfere with the federal courts system] any federal court from hearing a case against Don Trump, while attempting to ignore the whole basis of the court system and that the U.S.S.C is itself a federal court.

Tell me how

TomOnBoard wrote: »

There are always other things to talk about. However, this thread is about the Trump Presidency. His Presidency has been characterised by self-proclaimed omniscience, self-aggrandisement, self-congratulating, self-serving, self-interest, self-loving attempts at becoming King of his subjects rather than President of the People.

Agree with this/

To stop talking about Trump, because his behaviour is consistently unchanging is to accept is some sort of normal. A former NZ PM was talking on Newstalk this morning and said that if Jacinda Ardern spoke or acted like Trump had done during this disaster, she would be run out of the country.

To see Angela Merkle talking about the mathematical models and the impact a 1.0 infection rate versus 1.2 or 1.4 would have on the health system capacity versus the absolute turgid nonsense that his daily briefings were was like comparing apples with 6 month old sun exposed orange juice.

They couldn't even communicate the right message at the briefings with several people standing in close proximity to each other and then all shuffling out of the room rubbing shoulders with each other.

Blueshoe

TomOnBoard wrote: »

There are always other things to talk about. However, this thread is about the Trump Presidency. His Presidency has been characterised by self-proclaimed omniscience, self-aggrandisement, self-congratulating, self-serving, self-interest, self-loving attempts at becoming King of his subjects rather than President of the People.

The Coronavirus pandemic has highlighted how inept he is and how his appalling character flaws have led to extremely poor management of the fallout from the pandemic, especially in its earlier days. A complete lack of appropriate preparatory action in February while he ginned up his base at virus- spreading rallies is just one example of how he totally failed. And, all this while he was being told in the PDB that a viral fire was raging across the world since at least January and possibly as early as November last year. However, given that he is reported as not even reading the PDB, why would we be surprised when he fails to be informed by its contents.

So, the entire Trump Presidency can be judged through the lens of his repeated failings. He is President of a country whose population is some 330 million, but only ever focuses on fewer than half of them, just because the other more than half didn't vote for him. Even within the half he does focus upon, the vast bulk are just bodies he hopes to use to keep his hold on power come November. Other than his primary focus on his own corrupt Trump dynasty, his actions are oriented mostly at maintaining the wealth and power of the top few percenters. Everyone else is basically just fodder to his greed.

So, maybe that's why we need to continue to call out Trump's pathetic coronavirus response and the tens of thousands who are dying daily on his watch while he tries to minimise the reality of the pandemic on the ground and adopts hard-partisan political manoeuvres in the relief packages the country needs. A brief deflection to collecting moon-dust may occasionally provide some light relief, but any more than that is just a straight-forward 'Look!!! Over There!!!' changing of the subject.

I was talking about his presidency. Just a different topic than the Coronavirus.

Blueshoe

kowloon wrote: »

No doubt there's plenty of wealth out there, but getting it back to Earth is the problem. Space seems to be as much the domain of corporations as nations these days.

As your man on star trek said. Space ,the final frontier. The possibility of unlimited wealth form lunar mining. With that kind of money to be made I would definitely think that there are different organisations and companies researching into how it could be done. Government funded too.
One small asteroid would be worth the entire annual GDP of the US. Only a matter of time.

Trump signing the executive order shows that it is in their thoughts

Itssoeasy

Blueshoe wrote: »

As your man on star trek said. Space ,the final frontier. The possibility of unlimited wealth form lunar mining. With that kind of money to be made I would definitely think that there are different organisations and companies researching into how it could be done. Government funded too.
One small asteroid would be worth the entire annual GDP of the US. Only a matter of time.

Trump signing the executive order shows that it is in their thoughts

Lunar mining ? Humans haven't been back to the moon since 1972 ffs and that took ten years to get there from sub oritibal flights with Alan Shepard to Apollo 11 and somehow mike pence announced that America is going back to the moon soon. This despite the USA not having a tested means to even getting to the ISS yet and relying on the russians. It might be in his thoughts but Donald trumps thoughts if they are anything like his utterances out loud aren't up to much.

banie01

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Yes it's Trump in the cross-hairs right now , but if this holds then nothing will ever work again in the US.

It is vital, Trump and the Executive model of Presidency is the culmination of decades of decline and partisanship in American politics.

It's quite coincidental that I was today reading and referencing Juan Linz.
His essay The Perils of Presidentialism is perhaps the seminal work on the dangers of executive power vested in unsuitable and indeed inexperienced officers.

I don't think even Linz had imagined the perfect storm the US finds itself in now.

The US is afaik, the longest extant and probably longest lasting executive Presidency that has not at some point been subverted.
That is to my mind, the exception that proves the rule.
The system has in all cases descended to personal or single party rule.
Rule that often takes a societal shift to overthrow.

Presidentialism in the US sense, where it is quite possible to have no political or public service experience yet gain office is incredibly dangerous.
As is the US cabinet system, the attraction of appointing "professional practioners" to manage ministries their experience pertains to, is not a successful method of governance.

Quite often professionals drive performance at the expense of regulation and leads quite often to regulatory crises after leaving office.

The application of executive power, by politically naive populists has never resulted in anything other than a diminishment of the office in both influence and esteem.
Trump had done huge damage to US citizens trust in their democratic institutions before Covid-19.
That his performance during what will be the defining Geo-political crisis of our generation has exposed him as a total moron has really put a seal on the decline of the US on the world stage.

The art of consensus, of politicking and even that favourite of libertarian belief improving the common good...
Have all been burnt on the Altar of Trumpian populism.

banie01

aloyisious wrote: »

Probably the point made by the dissenting judge against the decision of the other two judges that Federal Courts could not hear such cases, the two deliberately trying to bar [or delay or interfere with the federal courts system] any federal court from hearing a case against Don Trump, while attempting to ignore the whole basis of the court system and that the U.S.S.C is itself a federal court.

That Judges are political appointees is an affront to Justice and it's exercise particularly when it comes to cases that are specifically and overtly political.

aloyisious

Is Don doing a presentation tonight right now or is it a re-run? I went to CNN and caught him saying the experts in Europe, in the US. got it wrong about the virus, they got it wrong about the lockdown, he got it right by closing down the borders. He's actually claiming credit for the testing, that it's why the figures have climbed. Quote; New York and New Jersey are in great shape because of what we've done: unquote. He's either lying when he said that last or he's insane.

aloyisious

It's live. He's going to issue an executive order to keep the meat processing plants open, using the Defence Act to order them to keep processing meat. If there is no place open to sell meat to the public because of the lockdown, the next logical [pardon me for that] is for him to issue an executive order over-ruling any state governor who is continuing with closure.