Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Manic Moran

MICKEYG wrote: »

I should know this but how are judges, especially the most senior ones, selected here?

In Ireland? A judicial advisory board meets, it consists of the Chief Justice and the Presidents of the High, Circuit and District courts, plus a solicitor and a barrister nominated by the heads of their respective organisations, and the Attorney General. They make recommendations of appointments to the Minister. (Which must be interesting, given I would assume that the President of the High Court who sits on the board is probably going to be one of the most qualified people to be nominated for the Supreme Court. It is, however, prohibited to nominate anyone on the board, except the Attorney General who must recuse himself, which means that if you become President of a Court, you've just hit a glass ceiling, it seems, unless you resign).

After receiving the recommendation, the Cabinet chews on it a bit, and I presume generally goes with the recommendation. Best I can tell, they don't have to, they can throw it out if they want to and come up with their own person, but I don't recall such ever happening off the top of my head. The government then 'advises' (i.e instructs, politely) the President to appoint the Judge.

theballz

Now he’s threatening our country?

The man has got to go.

Wanderer78

theballz wrote: »

Now he’s threatening our country?

The man has got to go.

And he ll go straight back into office after the election, Biden won't get in

looksee

valoren wrote: »

68,000 deaths now in the US. The same capacity of the Tokyo National stadium for the Olympic Games.

It should be remembered that deaths per capita are

Spain 536
Italy 474
UK 400
Ireland 256
US 200

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths

I didn't bother including China as who knows what the truth of their situation is. The above figures may of course shift as final numbers are crunched and allowance made for different recording systems. On the face of it though the US is nowhere near some European figures.

Carfacemandog

looksee wrote: »

It should be remembered that deaths per capita are

Spain 536
Italy 474
UK 400
Ireland 256
US 200

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths

I didn't bother including China as who knows what the truth of their situation is. The above figures may of course shift as final numbers are crunched and allowance made for different recording systems. On the face of it though the US is nowhere near some European figures.

Sorry but if you're not including China you're as well to leave the US and UK off as well. That's the most troubling part, we know in the UK were they counting in the same manner as Ireland that deaths would actually at the very, very least be more like 650 per million.

Then you've got the US which is such a disaster that there is no uniform system whatsoever, but whom we do know have a huge number of shortages for testing across their nation. In most states, they do not count a death unless that person was diagnosed with it and died in hospital - and they are testing at about half the rate which we see here. Over two thirds of their nursing homes don't even have access to tests. If we were counting deaths in a similar manner, you can be sure that 256 figure would slip well below 100.

The US and UK governments are no more trustworthy than Xi or Putin on this, which shows just how far their nations have fallen. Official death statistics will have to be trawled through for the real truth, because while getting the covid death toll perfect is impossible for any country, the four in this paragraph simply don't want to know.

Studies by the likes of Yale and the Financial Times reckon the UK and US death toll are off by tens of thousands. They can't be used for accurate comparisons.

pixelburp

theballz wrote: »

Now he’s threatening our country?

The man has got to go.

Huh? What did he say? Can't imagine why Trump would be having a go at Ireland (bar corp tax)

Carfacemandog

pixelburp wrote: »

Huh? What did he say? Can't imagine why Trump would be having a go at Ireland (bar corp tax)

Threatening to try and remove pharmaceutical companies from Ireland. Good luck to him with that, he's said similar before but nothing happened because he's just a sad pathetic loser eith the self esteem of a 14 year old girl, who desperately wants people to talk about anything but his gigantic failings.

pixelburp

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Threatening to try and remove pharmaceutical companies from Ireland. Good luck to him with that, he's said similar before but nothing happened because he's just a sad pathetic loser eith the self esteem of a 14 year old girl, who desperately wants people to talk about anything but his gigantic failings.

Snort. I'm not even outraged at those particular announcements anymore. It's just sad watching the US president as this flailing idiot who doesn't have even a basic clue of geopolitical nuance or international trade. Even your or I would have picked up the jist after 4 years. Yet here's Trump, yelling at the clouds, making Josiah Bartlet feel an even more outlandish myth than he did the first time West Wing aired.

Leroy42

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Sorry but if you're not including China you're as well to leave the US and UK off as well. That's the most troubling part, we know in the UK were they counting in the same manner as Ireland that deaths would actually at the very, very least be more like 650 per million.

Then you've got the US which is such a disaster that there is no uniform system whatsoever, but whom we do know have a huge number of shortages for testing across their nation. In most states, they do not count a death unless that person was diagnosed with it and died in hospital - and they are testing at about half the rate which we see here. Over two thirds of their nursing homes don't even have access to tests. If we were counting deaths in a similar manner, you can be sure that 256 figure would slip well below 100.

The US and UK governments are no more trustworthy than Xi or Putin on this, which shows just how far their nations have fallen. Official death statistics will have to be trawled through for the real truth, because while getting the covid death toll perfect is impossible for any country, the four in this paragraph simply don't want to know.

Studies by the likes of Yale and the Financial Times reckon the UK and US death toll are off by tens of thousands. They can't be used for accurate comparisons.

Yeah, both the UK and US admins have plenty of incentives to manipulate, or to put it kindly fail to properly account, for numbers.

In the UK for example we sat through six weeks of daily briefings using knowingly inaccurate data.

Then they manipulated the testing numbers to achieve a target they had set!

In the US, Trump knowingly lied about the outbreak at the start, lied about testing, vaccines, and more. He has openly stated that he wants the economy open to help his reelection and how better to get that that to manipulate the data.

Its perfectly reasonable to disbelieve anything China says but to believe anything that either the UK or US says is based on expectations of them rather than the reality.

Carfacemandog

pixelburp wrote: »

Snort. I'm not even outraged at those particular announcements anymore. It's just sad watching the US president as this flailing idiot who doesn't have even a basic clue of geopolitical nuance or international trade. Even your or I would have picked up the jist after 4 years. Yet here's Trump, yelling at the clouds, making Josiah Bartlet feel an even more outlandish myth than he did the first time West Wing aired.

I pretty much agree. Imi habit of a wrong side of the bed mood this morning for whatever reason so my post came over a little vitriolic I suppose, but the insecure 14 year old analogy was largely to do with the fact that it doesn't even deserve to be listened to (Trumps ramblings), just treated with an "are you done with your temepr tantrum and ready to come down yet" indifference or disdain.

Forget you or I, I am not even slightly joking when I say probably more than half of 14 year old boys and girls would have done a better job than him at this point. It's astounding how bad at this and just overall pathetic he is.

aloyisious

pixelburp wrote: »

Huh? What did he say? Can't imagine why Trump would be having a go at Ireland (bar corp tax)

Possibly Regereron in Limerick [subsidiary of U.S Pharma Co headquartered in Eastview, near Tarrytown, New York] which was still recruiting staff 2 days ago in Irish papers and is working on anti-viral cure for Covid-19.

Drumpot

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, both the UK and US admins have plenty of incentives to manipulate, or to put it kindly fail to properly account, for numbers.

In the UK for example we sat through six weeks of daily briefings using knowingly inaccurate data.

Then they manipulated the testing numbers to achieve a target they had set!

In the US, Trump knowingly lied about the outbreak at the start, lied about testing, vaccines, and more. He has openly stated that he wants the economy open to help his reelection and how better to get that that to manipulate the data.

Its perfectly reasonable to disbelieve anything China says but to believe anything that either the UK or US says is based on expectations of them rather than the reality.

China are the perfect bogeymen for Uk and US and even other European countries who made a balls of this, to hide behind. WHO are a close second as they did make some poor calls but where it becomes ridiculous to focus on these two fall guys is when the governments are making similar mistakes and similarly lieing and spouting propaganda to their own people.

It’s kinda how people love to point fingers at others and are great at spotting the flaws in people they don’t like. Quite often is just deflecting attention away from their role in something and they are pointing out defects in others that they themselves share.

All countries lie to their people, manipulate them and use propaganda. When a nation starts taking a holier then thou attitude you know there is absolutely no self reflection. The irony is that the people of China have a much better case that they are not as responsible for their leaders as the elected leaders of western democracy’s. That’s why I find it depressingly amusing when people attack our government like the people of Ireland bear little responsibility for that very government.

greenfield21

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PropJoe10

greenfield21 wrote: »

We need to see more of this from trump taking on pharma and tech companies along with taking back manufacturing jobs from countries like china- even though I don't see the manufacturing in china as the big issue. The trade deficit in pharma is madness though. This is all guns blazing trumps idgaf policy's is what's he needs for reelection. It's what the people want especially with the economic squeeze from Covid

You're probably right. He spouted this nonsense 4 years ago along with a load of other rubbish that he's never delivered on, and people bought it. They'll most likely buy it again, which is extremely unfortunate.

greenfield21

We need to see more of this from trump taking on pharma and tech companies along with some talk of taking back manufacturing jobs from countries like china- even though I don't see the manufacturing in china as the big issue. The trade deficit in pharma is madness though. This all guns blazing idgaf policy's is what's trump needs for reelection. It's what the people want especially with the economic squeeze from Covid and also considering the world was entering a period of deglobalisation anyway - onshoring and economic nationalism are easy wins. How would biden even come out and argue the other way on this, no doubt his pharma donations will get a massive boost though which will help. And before anyone says it I do realise the failure his tcja policy has been on this and how much imports have further increased under his admin. But I still give him credit for continuing his fight on this topic which I say even the left and right agree on in America.

Carfacemandog

greenfield21 wrote: »

We need to see more of this from trump taking on pharma and tech companies along with taking back manufacturing jobs from countries like china- even though I don't see the manufacturing in china as the big issue. The trade deficit in pharma is madness though. This is all guns blazing trumps idgaf policy's is what's he needs for reelection. It's what the people want especially with the economic squeeze from Covid

What the people need however, is a single buyer policy. Without that, every little, last pill in the entire world could be made in the US and prices would not go down. In fact if anything, they would just go up.

This however is one of those issues where the American public are their own worst enemy, as one of their biggest fears is that same single buyer policy becoming reality. And even more bafflingly, the reason for this fear is that they do not want their healthcare to become like Sweden, Germany, Canada, Ireland and so many other nations that enjoy far superior healtchare to the US. Most of them don't even understand that private insurance exists in these countries, and when its pointed out it them that it does, they still try to ignore it.

It's a little like someone being terrified of swapping from a 30 year old beat up old car that gets 5 miles per gallon, because they might wind up with a more comfortable car made within the last 10 years that costs less to maintain and insure, and gets 40 miles per gallon.

Christy42

greenfield21 wrote: »

We need to see more of this from trump taking on pharma and tech companies along with some talk of taking back manufacturing jobs from countries like china- even though I don't see the manufacturing in china as the big issue. The trade deficit in pharma is madness though. This all guns blazing idgaf policy's is what's trump needs for reelection. It's what the people want especially with the economic squeeze from Covid and also considering the world was entering a period of deglobalisation anyway - onshoring and economic nationalism are easy wins. How would biden even come out and argue the other way on this, no doubt his pharma donations will get a massive boost though which will help. And before anyone says it I do realise the failure his tcja policy has been on this and how much imports have further increased under his admin. But I still give him credit for continuing his fight on this topic which I say even the left and right agree on in America.

It will work well with his base but he isn't continuing on this fight. He never started it and never will. It is simple shouting at clouds for the sake of votes.

If he actually wanted to take on pharmacy companies he should start by tackling the crazy prices they charge in the US. Remember the US has one of the best funded health services but gets the least benefit from it.

Manic Moran

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Then you've got the US which is such a disaster that there is no uniform system whatsoever, but whom we do know have a huge number of shortages for testing across their nation. In most states, they do not count a death unless that person was diagnosed with it and died in hospital - and they are testing at about half the rate which we see here. Over two thirds of their nursing homes don't even have access to tests. If we were counting deaths in a similar manner, you can be sure that 256 figure would slip well below 100.

Sortof.

It used to be that way in the US. One State might only count a death if it was both a positive test and that COVID definitely contributed to it. (Someone on the way out and his/her death was hastened not counting). On the other hand, another State would count it as a death even without the test if the symptoms matched and there was a reasonable likelihood of contact with a known infected.

A couple weeks ago, the CDC changed the requirements to a national standard, which includes those who were not tested, but for whom COVID was a probable cause, so the death toll is becoming more accurate. However, there is a further reason for the current spike in deaths: There is at least a week's delay between reporting a death and reporting in the CDC system, because COVID has to be manually entered, unlike most deaths which have pre-configured entry codes. (But even at that, it can take up to ten days for a death certificate to be generated to start the entry into the system, so nearly three weeks). Also, only in the last few weeks were nursing homes required to report directly to the federal government. However, the numbers are tempered by comparison to projected 'normal' death rates as well, and now we have testing kits, post-mortem tests are happening, so the CDC numbers aren't quite as bad off as you might think from reading the above paragraph.

See https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Christy42

The notes on worldometer suggest that not all states are following those guidelines. Indeed while it includes New York it suggests that the vast majority are not following those guidelines.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Manic Moran

Christy42 wrote: »

The notes on worldometer suggest that not all states are following those guidelines. Indeed while it includes New York it suggests that the vast majority are not following those guidelines.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Misleading. For example, I know that Colorado has been recording 'probable' for a couple of weeks.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-covid-colorado-new-cases-deaths-april-23/
Colorado reports 552 coronavirus deaths as older and “probable” cases are added to fatality totals

You wouldn't know it to look at your website because it's not specifically called out in the three states at the top, you need to dig. Case in point, if you go to the line for Colorado which is not hyperlinked because there's no worldmeter page for that State, but click on the footnote on the far right, it takes you to the source page for its number which specifically states that "cases where public health epidemiologists have determined that infection is highly likely" are included. For Colorado, 10% of the case number is 'probable' and 16% of the deaths, but there is no indication of that on the base page you link to.

aloyisious

greenfield21 wrote: »

We need to see more of this from trump taking on pharma and tech companies along with some talk of taking back manufacturing jobs from countries like china- even though I don't see the manufacturing in china as the big issue. The trade deficit in pharma is madness though. This all guns blazing idgaf policy's is what's trump needs for reelection. It's what the people want especially with the economic squeeze from Covid and also considering the world was entering a period of deglobalisation anyway - onshoring and economic nationalism are easy wins. How would biden even come out and argue the other way on this, no doubt his pharma donations will get a massive boost though which will help. And before anyone says it I do realise the failure his tcja policy has been on this and how much imports have further increased under his admin. But I still give him credit for continuing his fight on this topic which I say even the left and right agree on in America.

Given how he's managed things so far, do you think Don can persuade the markets and firms to do this in the name of the U.S? The firms moved their production abroad for profit and the market [Dow etc] had no problem with that. The political parties kept quiet and did not call a halt to the closure of U.S production plants in line with the profit margin angle. It wasn't only Pharma firms that moved their research labs and plants abroad.

eire4

aloyisious wrote: »

Given how he's managed things so far, do you think Don can persuade the markets and firms to do this in the name of the U.S? The firms moved their production abroad for profit and the market [Dow etc] had no problem with that. The political parties kept quiet and did not call a halt to the closure of U.S production plants in line with the profit margin angle. It wasn't only Pharma firms that moved their research labs and plants abroad.

There is also the reality that US firms based in Ireland then get tariff free access to the EU. Are they going to be willing to give that up as well?

Rjd2

eire4 wrote: »

There is also the reality that US firms based in Ireland then get tariff free access to the EU. Are they going to be willing to give that up as well?

Did Obama say he would do similar with the multinationals? Again this isn't whataboutism, I can understand why both would have been keen but as you say when it comes down to it no matter how well meaning either's intentions,,,its simply unfeasible?

Leroy42

Trump could easily lead from the front on this type of issue by changing all his production US and employing only US residents.

Has he done this yet? If not, then all his talk about other companies is just that, talk.

salmocab

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump could easily lead from the front on this type of issue by changing all his production US and employing only US residents.

Has he done this yet? If not, then all his talk about other companies is just that, talk.

Does he produce much? Apart from debt.

Leroy42

salmocab wrote: »

Does he produce much? Apart from debt.

No, some clothes and Ivanka as well. But that is even more the point. Moving production to the US would have little to no real effect. But it would send the right type of signal.

Instead, he demands everyone else does it.

Of course the main issue is that many of these US companies, are not really US companies, except in name. They are global companies, and only care about the US market in terms of the US market itself, not because of any nationalist drive.

If Trump demands they relocate to the US then they would either lose access to other markers entirely or costs to operate in those markets would increase causing them to potentially lose out in those makets.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Misleading. For example, I know that Colorado has been recording 'probable' for a couple of weeks.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/23/coronavirus-covid-colorado-new-cases-deaths-april-23/
Colorado reports 552 coronavirus deaths as older and “probable” cases are added to fatality totals

You wouldn't know it to look at your website because it's not specifically called out in the three states at the top, you need to dig. Case in point, if you go to the line for Colorado which is not hyperlinked because there's no worldmeter page for that State, but click on the footnote on the far right, it takes you to the source page for its number which specifically states that "cases where public health epidemiologists have determined that infection is highly likely" are included. For Colorado, 10% of the case number is 'probable' and 16% of the deaths, but there is no indication of that on the base page you link to.

On both posts you seem to be suggesting that all states are following those guidelines but have stopped short on saying it. For instance checking the Texas last link in El Paso it heavily suggests that they are only counting positive results so you have still have this disconnect in a pretty big state. I am not bothered going through every state but I am not going to take it for granted they are all treating this conservatively.

Leroy42

What is the situation with regards to medical treatment of Covid and health insurance? Are people covered for all costs regardless of health cover?

If they are not, then the numbers must be taken with a massive pinch of salt since the lower paid will have less access to health care and thus many may be dying without getting tested or treated.

Itssoeasy

I see Donald trump had a pity party interview literally at the Lincoln monument in Washington DC and believes that he is being treated worse than president lincoln who we know was assassinated in the 1860’s so no mr president you haven’t been treated worse.

I’m convinced that trump is of the mindset that if he says something enough times that he actually believes the rubbish he says.

Water John

They are predicting the US will go to 3K deaths per day up from 1750 deaths per day at present.