Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Manic Moran

Christy42 wrote: »

On both posts you seem to be suggesting that all states are following those guidelines but have stopped short on saying it. For instance checking the Texas last link in El Paso it heavily suggests that they are only counting positive results so you have still have this disconnect in a pretty big state. I am not bothered going through every state but I am not going to take it for granted they are all treating this conservatively.

It does, indeed, seem that some States are following the guidelines and stop short on saying it. It took a direct reporter's question this week, for example, to reveal that Tennessee does not publicly post the "probables" on the State website, but it does, in accordance with CDC guidelines, track them. Presumably it passes that data on to CDC and it is incorporated in the national tally (That specific question was not asked).
https://news.yahoo.com/tennessee-tracks-probable-covid-19-032208579.html

Like you, I've neither the time nor inclination to go through every state. I suggest we leave it to the maths experts in CDC to come up with the best guess on the numbers and go with their adjusted-for-expectations figure absent anything better.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

They are predicting the US will go to 3K deaths per day up from 1750 deaths per day at present.

So how are they out the other side or whatever Jared kushner rambled on about on Fox News ?

Sand

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see Donald trump had a pity party interview literally at the Lincoln monument in Washington DC and believes that he is being treated worse than president lincoln who we know was assassinated in the 1860’s so no mr president you haven’t been treated worse.

I’m convinced that trump is of the mindset that if he says something enough times that he actually believes the rubbish he says.

That is generally how mass media works.

Christy42

Water John wrote: »

They are predicting the US will go to 3K deaths per day up from 1750 deaths per day at present.

That seems unrealistic. A nice terrible case scenario for them to look good maybe?

Especially as they have been pretty low over the weekend. Relative to previous values but still. It may be a weekend thing but even then that would just put them back up to 2000 deaths again.

Unfortunately the US is behind the curve with regards to the EU so they still have a lot of active cases but 3k a day seems pretty crazy. They have come close to it but for it to happen on a regular basis would be horrific.

aloyisious

Christy42 wrote: »

That seems unrealistic. A nice terrible case scenario for them to look good maybe?

Especially as they have been pretty low over the weekend. Relative to previous values but still. It may be a weekend thing but even then that would just put them back up to 2000 deaths again.

Unfortunately the US is behind the curve with regards to the EU so they still have a lot of active cases but 3k a day seems pretty crazy. They have come close to it but for it to happen on a regular basis would be horrific.

It seems the increase in the testing for the virus is uncovering the actual real numbers of infected people on a daily basis and the fatality estimate has increased as a result, though I don't know if that's down to post-mortem test results or an extrapolation, or both. The U.S decided some weeks back to stop using the Italian Covid-19 system on estimating the possible number of future deaths for it's own system.

TomOnBoard

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Boards is fkd now, sorry folks. Why can't they sort it out?

I thought I'd be able to get on at this hour, but access is still as bad as has been since the weekend. Its simply not feasible to use the site at the moment in my experience. Obviously, your mileage may vary...

HalloweenJack

What is the basis for the prediction of 3,000 deaths and 200,000 new infections a day? I read on the BBC it was a "Government report".

The cynic in me says they are making over-the-top predictions so that they can later come back and say 'look how well we did to keep it under control'. Similarly, if these numbers are their own, and they are higher than current ones, how can they justify any attempts to ease restrictions if they themselves predict a growth in infections and deaths?

dilallio

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is the situation with regards to medical treatment of Covid and health insurance? Are people covered for all costs regardless of health cover?

If they are not, then the numbers must be taken with a massive pinch of salt since the lower paid will have less access to health care and thus many may be dying without getting tested or treated.

According to independent non-profit FAIR Health:

Those who are hospitalized with coronavirus can expect to pay anywhere from $42,486 to $74,310 if they are uninsured or if they receive care that’s deemed out-of-network by their insurance company.

For those with insurance who are using in-network providers, out-of-pocket costs will be a portion of $21,936 to $38,755, depending on the cost-sharing provisions of their health plan.


EDIT: This info is no longer current: See TomOnBoard's post (2nd post after this).

Christy42

HalloweenJack wrote: »

What is the basis for the prediction of 3,000 deaths and 200,000 new infections a day? I read on the BBC it was a "Government report".

The cynic in me says they are making over-the-top predictions so that they can later come back and say 'look how well we did to keep it under control'. Similarly, if these numbers are their own, and they are higher than current ones, how can they justify any attempts to ease restrictions if they themselves predict a growth in infections and deaths?

There is none but these were also leaked values so they were not trying to justify them.

TomOnBoard

dilallio wrote: »

According to independent non-profit FAIR Health:

Those who are hospitalized with coronavirus can expect to pay anywhere from $42,486 to $74,310 if they are uninsured or if they receive care that’s deemed out-of-network by their insurance company.

For those with insurance who are using in-network providers, out-of-pocket costs will be a portion of $21,936 to $38,755, depending on the cost-sharing provisions of their health plan.

That Fair Health report was dated March. since then, Alex Azar announced (around 10 days ago) that covid related costs of uninsured patients would be covered also.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/trump-administration-says-it-will-pay-hospitals-for-treating-uninsured-covid-19-patients/2020/04/22/3df5fbb4-84b5-11ea-878a-86477a724bdb_story.html

TomOnBoard

Christy42 wrote: »

There is none but these were also leaked values so they were not trying to justify them.

It is being reported as an unofficial Administration report, based on CDC latest modelling run that is being used by FEMA for planning purposes.I

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/coronavirus-daily-us-deaths-models-trump-report

TomOnBoard

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I thought I'd be able to get on at this hour, but access is still as bad as has been since the weekend. Its simply not feasible to use the site at the moment in my experience. Obviously, your mileage may vary...

The delays I was experiencing seem to have been sorted out now.

Igotadose

TomOnBoard wrote: »

That Fair Health report was dated March. since then, Alex Azar announced (around 10 days ago) that covid related costs of uninsured patients would be covered also.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/trump-administration-says-it-will-pay-hospitals-for-treating-uninsured-covid-19-patients/2020/04/22/3df5fbb4-84b5-11ea-878a-86477a724bdb_story.html

Believe none of it. There's no industry quite like the US health care industry for promising one thing and actually doing whatever the fcuk they please with little or no consequence. It's insurance based, someone will have to pay, much like the HSE when they're found out for having violated some agreement or other, it'll have been a 'mistake' that they're absolutely going to rectify right away, and back to doing whatever they were doing.

The US banking industry is only slightly better, they can change if forced to pay enough. And in both cases there are never any serious consequences for the individuals responsible for the malfeasance.

jm08

aloyisious wrote: »

Given how he's managed things so far, do you think Don can persuade the markets and firms to do this in the name of the U.S? The firms moved their production abroad for profit and the market [Dow etc] had no problem with that. The political parties kept quiet and did not call a halt to the closure of U.S production plants in line with the profit margin angle. It wasn't only Pharma firms that moved their research labs and plants abroad.

The problem about withdrawing US drug companies from places like China and India is that these countries are the only places the ingredients for these drugs are found and most drugs have multiple supply chains from different countries. As well as that, Regeneron for example, spent 1 bn building their plant in Limerick. They are not going to walk away from that kind of investment.


They are already worried in the US about federal distribution control of Remdesivir resulting with other countries restricting distribution to the US of other drugs that are not produced in the US.


Trump doesn't really think these things through.

Cody montana

Gonna hit 70 thousand deaths today.
True figure is probably much higher.

Penn

jm08 wrote: »

The problem about withdrawing US drug companies from places like China and India is that these countries are the only places the ingredients for these drugs are found and most drugs have multiple supply chains from different countries. As well as that, Regeneron for example, spent 1 bn building their plant in Limerick. They are not going to walk away from that kind of investment.


They are already worried in the US about federal distribution control of Remdesivir resulting with other countries restricting distribution to the US of other drugs that are not produced in the US.


Trump doesn't really think these things through.

He just says things he thinks sound good. If one company announces they'll increase their US manufacturing by 1%, he'll then praise himself for bringing manufacturing back to the US, going to be yuge for the economy, great things to come, MAGA! etc.

Stallingrad

'15 cases' was not that long ago.

Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult.

Leroy42

Stallingrad wrote: »

'15 cases' was not that long ago.

Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult.

He saw it coming as well but he simply tired to brazen it out. He says what he needs to say at that exact point in time. The narrative has changed completely, he is no longer talking about 15, but now he says that anything less that 200k is a great success.

But he wants to have positive headlines each day, not reality.

StringerBell

Stallingrad wrote: »

'15 cases' was not that long ago.

Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult.

What?

He knew it was a pandemic before most people, just ask him. He knew how serious it was and he knew it before anybody else. You just need to play along by the rules that whatever Don said in the past is not canon, and whatever he said today is the fact of the matter until tomorrow of course.

Water John

The extra deaths resulting from the early and premature lifting of restrictions are directly attributable to Donald Trump and his reelection.
He doesn't care about the price. It's other peoples lives.
It's the same as starting a war to get reelected.

amandstu

Water John wrote: »

The extra deaths resulting from the early and premature lifting of restrictions are directly attributable to Donald Trump and his reelection.
He doesn't care about the price. It's other peoples lives.
It's the same as starting a war to get reelected.

I agree that he doesn't seem to take into account the extra deaths inevitably caused by relaxation of the guidelines.

This is not to say there is not a (un)happy medium between the medical and the economic imperatives.

He seems to have passed the buck on this score though ,allowing individual states to bear the blame and obviously trying to gain as much kudos as he possibly can by whatever base means he can.

Weasel in Chief (but we knew that)

He seems to be sidelining the scientific and medical community at the first opportunity,but we shall see if he is successful. in this.

Sand

Stallingrad wrote: »

'15 cases' was not that long ago.

Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult.

That's a fairly revisionist take. That '15 cases' quote is taken from a Trump press conference back on February 26th. His views were not exceptional.

Dr. Fauci continued after that date to downplay the risk: “You’ve got to watch out because although the risk is low now (Feb 29th), you don’t need to change anything you’re doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread.”

NY Governor Andrew Cuomo on March 2nd confirmed it was just a flu, bro: “Avian flu, ebola, SARS, MERS, measles, right? So we have gone through this before,” Cuomo continued. “When you look at the reality here, about 80% of people who are infected with the coronavirus self-resolve… 20% get ill. The mortality rate estimated to be about 1.4% – what does that mean? The normal flu mortality rate is about 0.6%.”

NY Mayor, Bill De Blasio repeatedly downplayed COVID-19 all through February and March and as late as March 10th refused the advice of the NY health commissioner that he shut down schools and public spaces. There are many reasons why New York was so heavily impacted by this virus. De Blasio shouldnt get to escape a proper accounting.

So no, everyone did not see it coming. The entire US system of governance has failed at every level.

StringerBell

Donald himself saw it coming, he said so himself.

Sand

StringerBell wrote: »

Donald himself saw it coming, he said so himself.

There was a COVID 19 taskforce setup on Jan 29th. Restrictions on travel to China were announced on Jan 31st. This was at a time when the Democrats were obsessed with a doomed attempt to impeach Trump (which only ended on February 5th). Trump is a clown, but it's stupid to pretend that the entire US political class saw the threat coming and Trump alone did not.

I'm not bothered going back to check, but I'd imagine when the travel restrictions to China were announced there was cries of racism and xenophobia on this very thread. But it anything it was too weak, half-assed and incomplete. Too many people are pretending to be wise after the fact.

extra gravy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see Donald trump had a pity party interview literally at the Lincoln memorial

I saw someone commenting that it was the second worst performance Lincoln had attended in Washington!

Professor Moriarty

extra gravy wrote: »

I saw someone commenting that it was the second worst performance Lincoln had attended in Washington!

Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

Headshot

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see Donald trump had a pity party interview literally at the Lincoln monument in Washington DC and believes that he is being treated worse than president lincoln who we know was assassinated in the 1860’s so no mr president you haven’t been treated worse.

I’m convinced that trump is of the mindset that if he says something enough times that he actually believes the rubbish he says.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/04/politics/donald-trump-fox-lincoln-memorial/index.html

Some quotes and reaction.

Its funny, any other president had these quotes, you would suspect the news channel is making up bull**** but unfortunately this is the reality of where the USA is at the moment where a derange old man yells at a cloud

Penn

The Trump Admin is planning on wrapping up the Coronavirus Task Force later this month, because of course they are.

Another way to push the blame for deaths to the States and local governments/agencies.

FatherTed

Sand wrote: »

There was a COVID 19 taskforce setup on Jan 29th. Restrictions on travel to China were announced on Jan 31st. This was at a time when the Democrats were obsessed with a doomed attempt to impeach Trump (which only ended on February 5th). Trump is a clown, but it's stupid to pretend that the entire US political class saw the threat coming and Trump alone did not.

I'm not bothered going back to check, but I'd imagine when the travel restrictions to China were announced there was cries of racism and xenophobia on this very thread. But it anything it was too weak, half-assed and incomplete. Too many people are pretending to be wise after the fact.

The impeachment trial had nothing to do with this. The Trump administration minimized this outbreak as much as it could until about mid-March so those 6 weeks or so were lost. That is their biggest downfall - sitting on their hands in February wishing/praying the outbreak away.

Sand

FatherTed wrote: »

The impeachment trial had nothing to do with this. The Trump administration minimized this outbreak as much as it could until about mid-March so those 6 weeks or so were lost. That is their biggest downfall - sitting on their hands in February wishing/praying the outbreak away.

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.