Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

salmocab

Sand wrote: »

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

Well not everyone and even if it was everyone that doesn’t forgive the cluster **** that Trumps administration ran. Plenty of people have plenty of blame to shoulder and foremost of them is Trump who is putting reelection ahead of people’s lives.

Sand

salmocab wrote: »

Well not everyone and even if it was everyone that doesn’t forgive the cluster **** that Trumps administration ran. Plenty of people have plenty of blame to shoulder and foremost of them is Trump who is putting reelection ahead of people’s lives.

I'm addressing the earlier assertion in this thread that 'Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult'.

As I pointed out the experts (Fauci) and the politicians (Cuomo, De Blasio) etc were in denial even after Trump's '15 cases' press conference. There is a mythology developing that all the blame sits on Trump and that everyone else could see this coming and were ignored.

The reality is that the entire US system failed to identify or react to the threat. Primarily because it prioritised GDP over lives, and lacked sufficient legitimacy or will to take necessary but controversial measures to mitigate its spread into the USA. I think Trump is a clown who should lose in November. I also think that Trump being a clown does not allow all the other clowns off the hook.

But this thread is such an echo chamber at this point that any nuance is impossible.

pixelburp

Sand wrote: »

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

There was no communal attempt to take CoVid seriously, when you simply look from protestors in Michigan to folk like the Lt. Governor in Texas (to name just two) who have parroted Trump's claim that "the cure can't be worse than the disease" in their feverish desire to open the economy prematurely. That's before you get to Fox which has gone out of its way to downplay or poo-poo the severity of the disease (and continue to do so, with idiots like Dr Phil claiming more people die from swimming pools than CoVid [they don't]).

Meanwhile, the lack of testing and the relative lag of America behind the rest of global trending cases means "mid march" is essentially meaningless for a country arguably not yet at the apex of their cycle with CoVid.

Trump however lead from the front (in step with Fox) with disinformation, dangerous medical advice and consistent attempts to undermine the need for caution with his patently politically motivated whining about opening up the economy again. Christ they couldn't even get unemployment cheques out to folk in time because he insisted they had his signature on them.

The president suggested people take a chance with Chloroquine, that's not minimisation, that's negligent leadership. You can talk of nuance but a country that puts its president as literal commander and chief means that leader takes the blame when the country spirals into lunacy.

transylman

Sand wrote: »

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

So when Trump and fox news were attacking democrats/the media for talking up the seriousness of the virus who were they talking about?

Sand

pixelburp wrote: »

Clearly not true, when you simply look from protestors in Michigan to folk like the Lt. Governor in Texas (to name just two) who have parroted Trump's claim that "the cure can't be worse than the disease" in their feverish desire to open the economy prematurely. That's before you get to Fox which has gone out of its way to downplay or poo-poo the severity of the disease (and continue to do so, with idiots like Dr Phil claiming more people die from swimming pools than CoVid [they don't]).

That some people are still downplaying it now does not disprove everyone was downplaying it back in February and early March. It just means some people are stubborn.

Meanwhile, the lack of testing and the relative lag of America behind the rest of global trending cases means "mid march" is essentially meaningless for a country arguably not yet at the apex of their cycle with CoVid.

As late as Feb 29th Trumps top expert, Fauci, was saying that risks were low and no significant changes to daily life were justified.

Trump lead from the front (in step with Fox) with disinformation, dangerous medical advice and consistent attempts to undermine the need for caution with his patently politically motivated whining about opening up the economy again.

And he wasn't alone in that perspective. New York remained open. Democrats continued to hold mass gatherings for their primary process. Etc, etc. This myth that Trump alone was the evil one is just that - a myth. It was an entire system failure.

The president suggested people take a chance with Chloroquine, that's not minimisation, that's negligent leadership.

If someone decides to drink fish tank cleaner that really is on them.

Itssoeasy

Sand wrote: »

I'm addressing the earlier assertion in this thread that 'Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult'.

As I pointed out the experts (Fauci) and the politicians (Cuomo, De Blasio) etc were in denial even after Trump's '15 cases' press conference. There is a mythology developing that all the blame sits on Trump and that everyone else could see this coming and were ignored.

The reality is that the entire US system failed to identify or react to the threat. Primarily because it prioritised GDP over lives, and lacked sufficient legitimacy or will to take necessary but controversial measures to mitigate its spread into the USA. I think Trump is a clown who should lose in November. I also think that Trump being a clown does not allow all the other clowns off the hook.

But this thread is such an echo chamber at this point that any nuance is impossible.

While the health officials and politicians may have misjudged the spread of the virus Dr Fauci in the quotes you attribute to him doesn't say the virus wouldn't come to the US, he was talking in the present and does say that people may have to change behaviour.

None of those people refered to the virus as a "democratic hoax" but Donald Trump did and downplayed it when it was clear this wasn't a virus to downplay.
Donald trump also has given mixed messages about the virus what would happen. He said it would just one day just up and vanish like a ghost. It's didn't and won't.

Nuance is one thing but you did an bit of whataboutism. Donald trump is the president to the United States so the failures of the federal government in relation to the virus rest with him. The federal agencies work at his direction. We've had these rambling campaign rally style briefings that were counterproductive at best.

Sand

transylman wrote: »

So when Trump and fox news were attacking democrats/the media for talking up the seriousness of the virus who were they talking about?

The White House only started getting significant criticism in early April. If you want to look back to February 26th - the infamous '15 cases' press conference - the media only asked a few softball questions regarding the possibility of further COVID 19 measures in the future. In between asking about US India relations, the stock market, if Americans should make summer travel plans, so on an so forth.

As for Trump downplaying it, from the Feb 26th transcript

Q Thank you very much, Mr. President. The doctor at CDC just talked about dusting off preparedness plans. But coming from you, it has more weight. Do you feel like U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading?

THE PRESIDENT: I would think so, yes. I mean, I haven’t spoken specifically about that with the various doctors, but I would think so, yes.

I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.

But, yeah, I think schools should be preparing and, you know, get ready just in case.

I get it. People hate Trump. But it's very odd that people claim to hate Trump for lying and being dishonest, yet have such little concern for objective facts.

Trump is not the root of the problem. He is a symptom of it. The broad systematic decline of US governance existed before him and it will continue after him.

pixelburp

Sand wrote: »

That some people are still downplaying it now does not disprove everyone was downplaying it back in February and early March. It just means some people are stubborn.

Simply untrue, don't waffle in semantics, you need only look to Fox since January to see a broad narrative trying to initially claim CoVid as a democratic ploy, while generally downplaying the severity. The most popular news channel in America has threaded a consistent approach in trying to attack the need for a serious tackling of the virus. Pirro, Hannity, Carlson, Ingram et Al have never tried to inform the public.

Sand wrote: »

And he wasn't alone in that perspective. New York remained open. Democrats continued to hold mass gatherings for their primary process. Etc, etc. This myth that Trump alone was the evil one is just that - a myth. It was an entire system failure.

Nobody is calling Trump the evil one so don't put words in people's mouths. Flaws are everywhere, not least in America's healthcare system predating Trump. Our own reaction was arguably weeks slow. Trump however is literal commander in chief and given is a former CEO, should be adequately aware that the buck stops with him. He could have lead from the front, that's why they call them leaders. They're supposed to lead where others play games, show direction, sobriety and clear pathways. Either he's in charge, or isn't.

Sand wrote: »

If someone decides to drink fish tank cleaner that really is on them.

Spoken with the reductionist flippancy I might have expected. That's not how that works and you're either disingenuous or naive in thinking it's as simple as just dismissing the desperate and scared as being the only culpable ones. Not every action is an intellectual one, not least during an existential crisis. Would they have drunk it without Trump's actual words in telling people "try it ... what have you got to lose?". Thankfully even the desperate aren't so that they would drink bleach.

You say "personal responsibility"? Fine. Trump has a personal responsibility to speak truth, sense and not lay people on false paths.

FatherTed

Sand wrote: »

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

Nope.... My local senator was sounding alarm bells in early February:



https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1225073987639705600

Sand

Itssoeasy wrote: »

While the health officials and politicians may have misjudged the spread of the virus Dr Fauci in the quotes you attribute to him doesn't say the virus wouldn't come to the US, he was talking in the present and does say that people may have to change behaviour.

Of course it doesnt. As Fauci made those comments (Feb 29th) he was aware there was at least 15 cases in the US already. But it does show that the expert opinion at that time (Feb 29th) was not shouting from the rooftops for the entire economy to be shut down.

So all the Captain Hindsight pretending Trump alone was preventing a coherent, single minded response in January (WHO didnt even accept human-to-human transfer until Jan 22nd) for short term political gain are engaged in fantasy.

None of those people refered to the virus as a "democratic hoax" but Donald Trump did and downplayed it when it was clear this wasn't a virus to downplay.

Yeah, but he kind of didn't downplay it either. He was warning schools should prepare for a shutdown back on Feb 26th - even before Fauci's downplaying on Feb 29th.

Donald trump also has given mixed messages about the virus what would happen. He said it would just one day just up and vanish like a ghost. It's didn't and won't.

And again, he was not alone in this.

Nuance is one thing but you did an bit of whataboutism. Donald trump is the president to the United States so the failures of the federal government in relation to the virus rest with him. The federal agencies work at his direction. We've had these rambling campaign rally style briefings that were counterproductive at best.

Failures (at all levels) should be attributed to their owners. Trump is reponsible for Federal failures (to the extent he can even control federal agencies at least). The failures NYC to adequately react should sit with the governor and mayor. And so on.

Again - I reiterate. Trump is a clown. But you dont get to pretend : 'Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult'.

That is clearly nonsense.

Sand

pixelburp wrote: »

Simply untrue, don't waffle in semantics,

It's not semantics. It's logic. Your statement that some people hold a view in May does not contradict my earlier statement. What I'm saying is your earlier response is irrelevant to my point. What you say can be entirely true without impacting anything I have said.

Nobody is calling Trump the evil one so don't put words in people's mouths.

This is the assertion being made in post #6708 ''15 cases' was not that long ago. Everyone could see this coming except the Donald and his cult.'

This is clearly wrong. I've already provided evidence of Fauci, De Blasio and Cuomo downplaying COVID 19 days and weeks after the Feb 26th press conference. So objectively its proven that not everyone saw this coming. That is the objective, unbiased truth. Not everyone saw this coming.

Everything else is just noise.

Professor Moriarty

Joe Biden writing in USA Today on January 29th:


Trump’s demonstrated failures of judgment and his repeated rejection of science make him the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health challenge.

The outbreak of a new coronavirus, which has already infected more than 2,700 people and killed over 80 in China, will get worse before it gets better. Cases have been confirmed in a dozen countries, with at least five in the United States. There will likely be more.

And:

Trump has rolled back much of the progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. He proposed draconian cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Agency for International Development — the very agencies we need to fight this outbreak and prevent future ones.

He dismissed the top White House official in charge of global health security and dismantled the entire team. And he has treated with utmost contempt institutions that facilitate international cooperation, thus undermining the global efforts that keep us safe from pandemics and biological attacks.

And:

To be blunt, I am concerned that the Trump administration’s shortsighted policies have left us unprepared for a dangerous epidemic that will come sooner or later.

Pandemic diseases are a prime example of why international cooperation is a requirement of leadership in 2020. Diseases do not stop at borders. They cannot be thwarted by building a wall. We cannot keep ourselves safe without helping to keep others safe as well and without enlisting the help of other nations in return. And here’s the truth — the United States must step forward to lead these efforts, because no other nation has the resources, the reach or the relationships to marshal an effective international response

Sand

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Joe Biden writing in USA Today on January 29th:

Diseases do not stop at borders. They cannot be thwarted by building a wall.

This is soft headed thinking. We're all locked in our homes because diseases are stopped by physical distancing and walls. The best solution would have to implement the lockdown at the border so that normal life could have carried on within those borders. As it is, open borders were prioritised so now we cant leave our homes.

When I point to the system wide failures in the US and the lack of political legitimacy to take drastic but necessary action I'm referencing views like Biden is expressing. If we are to identify the optimal course of action, assuming perfect information, then Trump should have instituted a total travel ban on China back on December 31st. Further more, he should have extended that travel ban to any country which did not implement their own travel ban on China.

Do all those with perfect 20/20 hindsight truly think there would have been any support for such a policy when WHO was dismissing human-to-human transfer until Jan 22nd?

Christy42

Sand wrote: »

This is soft headed thinking. We're all locked in our homes because diseases are stopped by physical distancing and walls. The best solution would have to implement the lockdown at the border so that normal life could have carried on within those borders. As it is, open borders were prioritised so now we cant leave our homes.

When I point to the system wide failures in the US and the lack of political legitimacy to take drastic but necessary action I'm referencing views like Biden is expressing. If we are to identify the optimal course of action, assuming perfect information, then Trump should have instituted a total travel ban on China back on December 31st. Further more, he should have extended that travel ban to any country which did not implement their own travel ban on China.

Do all those with perfect 20/20 hindsight truly think there would have been any support for such a policy when WHO was dismissing human-to-human transfer until Jan 22nd?

Not really. The disease was not carried from immigrants and rich people don't care about closed borders. Closing borders is a delay tactic. Normal life can't continue if you stop all imports and business travel. And people traveling home from abroad. Unless you do all of these it is getting in. The policy you suggested is nonsense and the US can't/won't support people and companies who such a policy would cripple.

The best solution would be lots of working tests, plenty of ppe and leaders encouraging social distancing. This is where the US failed. This as well as fully funded teams like the ones Trump defunded/, crippled advising the government.

Sand

Christy42 wrote: »

Not really. The disease was not carried from immigrants

Well, it didn't travel from Wuhan to major cities across the world by walking. It was carried by international travellers across networks created by the globalised economy.

and rich people don't care about closed borders.

I'll point you to the case of those rich people being detained on the runway when they tried to fly into France back in early April. They were force to to return without getting off the runway. Learned helplessness is not a useful response in a crisis.

Closing borders is a delay tactic. Normal life can't continue if you stop all imports and business travel.

Imports can go through a decontamination process. Business travel can be (and has been) stopped - it's almost always unnecessary.

And people traveling home from abroad.

Easily dealt with by enforced quarantine on those who are permitted entry.

Unless you do all of these it is getting in.

It might get in even if we do all these things. But locking down the border would mitigate the spread and permit a less dramatic lockdown on day-to-day life. Any optimal policy would by its very nature require a ban on travel from areas where the disease is already present.

The policy you suggested is nonsense and the US can't/won't support people and companies who such a policy would cripple.

You say that and yet, the US is in lockdown. Because it didn't stop this at the border early on.

The best solution would be lots of working tests, plenty of ppe and leaders encouraging social distancing. This is where the US failed. This as well as fully funded teams like the ones Trump defunded/, crippled advising the government.

Why not both? Lock down the borders and encourage social distancing? The only reason border control is discounted by some is ideological fanaticism.

But all of this does highlight my point - the entire US system lacked the will to take the necessary actions early on. Any sensible measure to control the borders would have fallen foul of this ideological fanaticism and been rejected outright. Open borders and GDP were prioritised over peoples lives.

jibber5000

pixelburp wrote: »

Simply untrue, don't waffle in semantics, you need only look to Fox since January to see a broad narrative trying to initially claim CoVid as a democratic ploy, while generally downplaying the severity. The most popular news channel in America has threaded a consistent approach in trying to attack the need for a serious tackling of the virus. Pirro, Hannity, Carlson, Ingram et Al have never tried to inform the public.



Nobody is calling Trump the evil one so don't put words in people's mouths. Flaws are everywhere, not least in America's healthcare system predating Trump. Our own reaction was arguably weeks slow. Trump however is literal commander in chief and given is a former CEO, should be adequately aware that the buck stops with him. He could have lead from the front, that's why they call them leaders. They're supposed to lead where others play games, show direction, sobriety and clear pathways. Either he's in charge, or isn't.



Spoken with the reductionist flippancy I might have expected. That's not how that works and you're either disingenuous or naive in thinking it's as simple as just dismissing the desperate and scared as being the only culpable ones. Not every action is an intellectual one, not least during an existential crisis. Would they have drunk it without Trump's actual words in telling people "try it ... what have you got to lose?". Thankfully even the desperate aren't so that they would drink bleach.

You say "personal responsibility"? Fine. Trump has a personal responsibility to speak truth, sense and not lay people on false paths.

The fish tank cleaner lady is now under investigation for murdering her husband. Although that's still probably Trump's fault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-who-blamed-trump-after-giving-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder/amp/

Christy42

Sand wrote: »

Well, it didn't travel from Wuhan to major cities across the world by walking. It was carried by international travellers across networks created by the globalised economy.



I'll point you to the case of those rich people being detained on the runway when they tried to fly into France back in early April. They were force to to return without getting off the runway. Learned helplessness is not a useful response in a crisis.



Imports can go through a decontamination process. Business travel can be (and has been) stopped - it's almost always unnecessary.



Easily dealt with by enforced quarantine on those who are permitted entry.



It might get in even if we do all these things. But locking down the border would mitigate the spread and permit a less dramatic lockdown on day-to-day life. Any optimal policy would by its very nature require a ban on travel from areas where the disease is already present.



You say that and yet, the US is in lockdown. Because it didn't stop this at the border early on.



Why not both? Lock down the borders and encourage social distancing? The only reason border control is discounted by some is ideological fanaticism.

But all of this does highlight my point - the entire US system lacked the will to take the necessary actions early on. Any sensible measure to control the borders would have fallen foul of this ideological fanaticism and been rejected outright. Open borders and GDP were prioritised over peoples lives.

Indeed it didn't walk in. Business travel has not stopped. It has lessened with working from home but it has not stopped. They were not flown on automated planes, people are on them and meeting other people. The US was always going to have to enter lock down. Finally you don't have the resources to put everything through contamination. Especially when some of the imports should be masks, medication and food because you know border controls will fail.

I agree border measures can help slow the spread a little but to suggest that life could have gone on as normal behind them is ridiculous. And quite frankly I count the border measures as a delaying measure for the actually useful stuff to be done.

Carfacemandog

Sand wrote: »

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

Well, no.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-02-28/democratic-candidates-criticize-trump-coronavirus-response
Feb 28th: Democratic presidential candidates are questioning President Trump’s response to the global coronavirus outbreak and urging him, among other things, to do his “damn job.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/26/politics/coronavirus-funding-request-schumer-congress/index.html
Feb 26th: Schumer announces $8.5 billion request for emergency coronavirus funding

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/481478-democrats-urge-emergency-funding-for-coronavirus-outbreak
Feb 4th: Democrats urge emergency funding for coronavirus outbreak

Here are a whole list of democrats (and Mitt Romney) making harsh criticisms of the response in February. https://www.axios.com/trump-coronavirus-response-criticism-adcb77db-a7ff-44b9-a0e0-52f5c4885e23.html

And forget just February, Years ago Obama set up a team specifically for pandemics, which Trump later largely defunded. https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

Edit: those who were warning the white house strongly about this early in were ignored and even fired. Now they're blowing the whistle - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/rick-bright-complaint-read-coronavirus-whistleblower-trump-hydroxychloroquine-a9500586.html

You really should do a little bit of due diligence before making such declarative statements.

robinph

Water John wrote: »

It's the same as starting a war to get reelected.

Wars normally invole foreigners being killed a long way away by the sons of the poor family that lives in the next neighbourhood and the sons of the rich kids of your neighbours dropping bombs from a distance.

This war results in your parents dying and being looked after by some immigrants from India whilst the poor people collect the rubbish in your street and clean the hospitals.

Not sure it's going to work the same way as starting a war to win the election.

pixelburp

jibber5000 wrote: »

The fish tank cleaner lady is now under investigation for murdering her husband. Although that's still probably Trump's fault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-who-blamed-trump-after-giving-her-husband-fish-tank-cleaner-now-under-investigation-for-murder/amp/

Thanks for passing on that twist in the tail - even if you managed to be needlessly snide in doing so. Doesn't mean I can forgive the irresponsibility of Trump repeatedly making unfounded medical advice, I'm only glad he may not have killed anyone. The current US President spitballing bullsh*t cures in public is still a ludicrous, obnoxious scenario to live through.

Midlife

Sand wrote: »

Everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

This is correct.

Trump's problem is that he feels the need to continuously declare victory while touting bad science and poor solutions.

That and he's the president so he gets the blame.

America got this wrong. It's a national failure but he gets the most blame.

Leroy42

Midlife wrote: »

This is correct.

Trump's problem is that he feels the need to continuously declare victory while touting bad science and poor solutions.

That and he's the president so he gets the blame.

America got this wrong. It's a national failure but he gets the most blame.

He can't take credit for unemployment numbers or the economy but then say that this has nothing to do with him.

Either it doesn't, and thus he can't take credit for anything, or it does and he has to shoulder the blame.

The fact that he continues to demand credit for his reduction in travel from China would suggest that even he acknowledges he has a very significant and leading role.

Professor Moriarty

Midlife wrote: »

This is correct.

Trump's problem is that he feels the need to continuously declare victory while touting bad science and poor solutions.

That and he's the president so he gets the blame.

America got this wrong. It's a national failure but he gets the most blame.

Unfortunately, according to this Reuters poll, what Trump is doing in terms of the virus and the economy appears to be resonating with the American people. Biden now has a 2 point lead over Trump having had a 6 point lead last week and a 8 point lead two weeks ago. Crucially, people believe that Trump is better for the economy and for the virus response. Biden's lack of visibility is seen as the primary factor in this slide of his numbers.

Leroy42

I think you are reading too much into those numbers Prof. I think it is more correct that Biden is simply not visible at the moment, whilst Trump is on everyday. It is why the incumbent has an advantage everytime (not just in the US).

It is a very difficult line to balance on for the likes of Biden. Any criticism, not matter how well deserved, will be cast as a putdown of America, rather than the president. It is like coming out against that war in Iraq was seen as somehow anti-American.

Labour are facing the same issue in the UK. Very hard to get across that the government is do poorly whilst not looking like you are trying to score political points.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think you are reading too much into those numbers Prof. I think it is more correct that Biden is simply not visible at the moment, whilst Trump is on everyday. It is why the incumbent has an advantage everytime (not just in the US).

It is a very difficult line to balance on for the likes of Biden. Any criticism, not matter how well deserved, will be cast as a putdown of America, rather than the president. It is like coming out against that war in Iraq was seen as somehow anti-American.

Labour are facing the same issue in the UK. Very hard to get across that the government is do poorly whilst not looking like you are trying to score political points.

That's exactly the point I was making. As was the article, TBF:

The former vice president has been forced to run his presidential campaign from his Delaware home in keeping with restrictions aimed at combating the virus, which has killed more than 70,000 people in the United States and put 30 million people out of work.

By contrast, Trump has put himself at the helm of the U.S. pandemic response, with regular White House briefings until recently.


I sincerely believe that humanity and society is in deep peril from this pandemic, future pandemics and climate change. Four more years of Trump will probably kill any chance of securing humanity's future.

I really do hope that Biden doesn't intend to try to take the high moral ground i.e. we go high when they go low. Fúck that. And fúck staying quiet while Trump lies and lies. Attack Trump from every angle whether it's true or not. He's politicised the pandemic so attack him from every angle on that whether it's true or not. Lash out publicly and loudly every single day and hose him down with sewage.

EltonJohn69

I see Trump toured a mask factory blaring guns and roses and the Rolling Stones, trying to turn the tour into a rally... looked bizzare

Professor Moriarty

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

I see Trump toured a mask factory blaring guns and roses and the Rolling Stones, trying to turn the tour into a rally... looked bizzare

Without wearing a mask. About which, I have mixed feelings if I am completely honest...

duploelabs

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

I see Trump toured a mask factory blaring guns and roses and the Rolling Stones, trying to turn the tour into a rally... looked bizzare

Someone blared 'Live and Let Die', they must've been on their last day.

https://mobile.reuters.com/video/watch/live-and-let-die-blares-as-trump-tours-m-idOVCCNU9Y7?chan=6g5ka85

pixelburp

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Without wearing a mask. About which, I have mixed feelings if I am completely honest...

But he wore eye goggles, which kinda falls under the banner of "mixed messages". Weird optics anyway. Presumably the factory insists on eye protection for work due to the law (I'm guessing from shreds of wire or PPE cloth), mening even Trump wasn't allowed ignore it.

Sand

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Well, no.

You really should do a little bit of due diligence before making such declarative statements.

You know, you're right. I'll retract the statement that 'everyone in the US minimised this outbreak as much as they could until about mid-March'. Given my objection is to the declarative statement that everyone except Trump saw this coming, it's sufficient for me to just point out that the NYC leadership and Dr Fauci didn't see it coming.

Christy42 wrote: »

Indeed it didn't walk in. Business travel has not stopped. It has lessened with working from home but it has not stopped. They were not flown on automated planes, people are on them and meeting other people. The US was always going to have to enter lock down. Finally you don't have the resources to put everything through contamination. Especially when some of the imports should be masks, medication and food because you know border controls will fail.

I really don't get why you're arguing over this, but it does help demonstrate my point. Any attempt to take the correct steps early was impossible given the so many people cant conceive of controlled borders or impeding GDP.

I agree border measures can help slow the spread a little but to suggest that life could have gone on as normal behind them is ridiculous. And quite frankly I count the border measures as a delaying measure for the actually useful stuff to be done.

It's interesting that you think the walls of a 3 bed semi detached can curb the transmission of a disease, but that border walls cannot. You really need to consider how you've come to believe these things.