Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Carfacemandog

Nody wrote: »

Which was not the case with several senators stating beforehand that no matter the evidence they would acquit Trump rather than have a unbiased review of the facts put forward to them.

And the senators like Lamar Alexander and Susan Collins who outright admitted he was guilty immediately after acquitting him. How that doesn't qualify as criminally negligent or having criminal intent is simply beyond me.

Quin_Dub

Nody wrote: »

Which was not the case with several senators stating beforehand that no matter the evidence they would acquit Trump rather than have a unbiased review of the facts put forward to them.

Carfacemandog wrote: »

And the senators like Lamar Alexander and Susan Collins who outright admitted he was guilty immediately after acquitting him. How that doesn't qualify as criminally negligent or having criminal intent is simply beyond me.

And they were able to say those things because they knew that given the utterly partisan nature of US Politics there was Zero chance of them being found guilty by their peers of the perjury they just committed.

Penn

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He kinda did just recently over the appellate court spot - Considered 2nd only to the Supreme court , where they are trying to install a Trump supporting Fox News mouthpiece , who's only been qualified as a lawyer for ~10 years.

A number of Judges from the circuit that the proposed new appellate judge currently sits on asked Roberts to review the vacancy to see if there'd been anything untoward and he refused to even consider it.

The feeling is that McConnell has been pressuring older conservative Judges to retire now so that he fill the seats with younger replacements while they still control the decisions. Between this and him refusing to confirm any Obama appointees, they have been able to hugely influence the make-up of the Judiciary across the board in the last 3 years.

I agree, and I don't doubt the possibility Roberts might sde with Trump. I just wouldn't think his actions during the Impeachment hearings showed much bias. The GOP Senators more than took care of that themselves (bar Romney of course, though I'd be skeptical if he would have done so if he didn't know it was a foregone conclusion anyway).

duploelabs

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Even the fact that the governing party of the day can appoint their own justices and then delay/refuse the approval of appointees made by the other party is absolutely ridiculous and makes a mockery of the term "independent judiciary". Their system over there is so flawed its hard to know where to even start. I never saw anything as divided in my life.

If it wasn't for Trump taking up so many of the headlines, I would suspect that McConnell's pressuring of the judges to retire would be garner a lot more consternation

Stallingrad

duploelabs wrote: »

If it wasn't for Trump taking up so many of the headlines, I would suspect that McConnell's pressuring of the judges to retire would be garner a lot more consternation

That's one of main roles, create such a media sh!tshow, allowing who knows what to be going on in the background.

I wish the media would delve into what is really going on rather than fawning over his nonsensical gibberings.

amandstu

Midlife wrote: »

That's it. Cases rising rapidly in the heartland. Red states and rural America going to get hit hard now.

And just 2 days ago the clown declares it to be dropping everywhere.

People are less safe with him as president. He's toast.

Where have you seen that?

Quin_Dub

amandstu wrote: »

Where have you seen that?

This site give you really detailed level info at the state/county level

For example -

April 12th to May 12th

Kentucky 2278 Cases/151 Deaths , now 6675 Cases/311 Deaths
West Virginia 718 Cases/12 Deaths now 1378 Cases/58 Deaths
Arkansas 1983 Cases/34 Deaths now 4040 Cases/94 Deaths

That's just 3 I grabbed - All have doubled or in the last month.

Just to add - Indiana , Pences home state

April 15th 7920 Cases and 412 deaths

May 12th 25,127 Cases and 1,444 Deaths.. Tripled!

StringerBell

check_six wrote: »

Was the US justice system always so politically motivated? There seems to be a trumpian obsession with getting "our guys" into senior justice roles. Are these judges not bound to decide based on law, or can they throw the law out the window and just get politically partisan as much as they like?

It's been getting worse and worse since the 1990d anyways. That's as far back as I can remember and I hate to pin it on one side but the republicans have certainly seemed more eager to drag it toward hyper partisanship. I'm not saying the democrats are perfect by any means, but look at the behaviour of McConnel, look at the behaviour of the tea party before him, and even going back to the likes of Gingrich.

This is the most partisan I've ever seen it personally but can't say it's never been worse as I simply wasn't paying attention before the 90s.

Fox news has had an absolutely massive say in this too and the likes of Limbaugh. Everything is viewed through, and framed through prisms of who is saying something rather than what they are saying. Conditioning an entire generation to think their fellow American is the enemy to the point where you even have pictures of people wearing I'd rather be a Russian than a democrat t shirts.

Trump as always is a symptom and a pretty bad one, but he is no more important than that. McConnell has been worse than him for example in terms of actually getting things done and not done as the case may be.

Edit: apologies you asked specifically to the justice system. Yes I would say this is probably the most partisan we have seen that too and thanks in large part to Mitch.

Quin_Dub

StringerBell wrote: »

It's been getting worse and worse since the 1990d anyways. That's as far back as I can remember and I hate to pin it on one side but the republicans have certainly seemed more eager to drag it toward hyper partisanship. I'm not saying the democrats are perfect by any means, but look at the behaviour of McConnel, look at the behaviour of the tea party before him, and even going back to the likes of Gingrich.

This is the most partisan I've ever seen it personally but can't say it's never been worse as I simply wasn't paying attention before the 90s.

Fox news has had an absolutely massive say in this too and the likes of Limbaugh. Everything is viewed through, and framed through prisms of who is saying something rather than what they are saying. Conditioning an entire generation to think their fellow American is the enemy to the point where you even have pictures of people wearing I'd rather be a Russian than a democrat t shirts.

Trump as always is a symptom and a pretty bad one, but he is no more important than that. McConnell has been worse than him for example in terms of actually getting things done and not done as the case may be.

It started with the removal of the Fairness doctrine by Reagan - That gave birth to Fox News, Limbaugh et al.

Before then all the media had to present both sides of an argument and truth mattered

duploelabs

amandstu wrote: »

Where have you seen that?

Article here from the guardian

New US coronavirus hotspots appear in Republican heartlands

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/new-us-coronavirus-hotspots-republican-heartland-areas?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

peddlelies

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Before then all the media had to present both sides of an argument and truth mattered

Not to be conspiratorial but I think that's a big stretch tbh. IMO what's changed media more than anything is the internet, because of it's draw many legacy media outlets have had to try and sensationalise or become highly partisan in an effort to maintain relevancy. I think when it comes down to it corp media will almost always look after the interests of the political class because they are part of it.

What you could get away with pre internet is ten fold to nowadays obviously, like the example below, so it wasn't always on the up and up. Even to this day networks are hiring these CIA talking heads as analysts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

TomOnBoard

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It started with the removal of the Fairness doctrine by Reagan - That gave birth to Fox News, Limbaugh et al.

Before then all the media had to present both sides of an argument and truth mattered

AFAIK the Fairness Doctrine only ever applied to media using radio based spectrum such as radio stations and antenna based tv. It was never intended to apply to satellite and/or cable tv, nor to the print media. So, by the 80s it was seen as an anachronism that unfairly hobbled traditional tv and gave the emerging satellite and cable channels an unfair advantage. It was also being argued that it undermined the 1st Amendment free speech right.

It has often been said that Reagan's efforts gave birth to the likes of Fox News, but this is not the case, as Fox would not have been made available on radio-based tv spectrum. The doctrine would also never have applied to internet based media, unless it's principles had been re-framed in legislation outside of the FCC remit. I

So, for me, the Fairness Doctrine had outlived its time, and needed radical new re-application to ALL media, rather than to a very small group of media outlets. Unfortunately, 1st Amendment rights could not be overcome, so it had to go. It now falls to individual media outlets, across all genres, to self- regulate and maintain balance and fairness in their editorial policies. some do that reasonably well (e.g. AP) while others operate on the edge of sheer propaganda.

Quin_Dub

peddlelies wrote: »

Not to be conspiratorial but I think that's a big stretch tbh. IMO what's changed media more than anything is the internet, because of it's draw many legacy media outlets have had to try and sensationalise or become highly partisan in an effort to maintain relevancy. I think when it comes down to it corp media will almost always look after the interests of the political class because they are part of it.

What you could get away with pre internet is ten fold to nowadays obviously, like the example below, so it wasn't always on the up and up. Even to this day networks are hiring these CIA talking heads as analysts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

If it was the Internet then why is the US media orders of magnitude more partisan than elsewhere??

Foxtrol

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It started with the removal of the Fairness doctrine by Reagan - That gave birth to Fox News, Limbaugh et al.

Before then all the media had to present both sides of an argument and truth mattered

I think the continuing mindset in the mainstream media regarding the fairness doctrine is more the cause of Trump than anything else. Unlike Fox that takes a clear side, the majority of the media still seeks to find a level of balance, even when one side is clearly wrong.

In 2016 the media (especially NYT) decided to run with the Hillary email nonsense over and over again, giving it far more focused attention than the dozens of Trump scandals at the time. We see it again now with more attention being paid to a single accuser of Biden than the dozens that have more credibly accused Trump. These journalists seem to believe fairness is focusing on both sides equally, which gives a pass to the guy that has much more negative things to be discussed.

We then saw the rise of grifters like Kayleigh McEnany due to CNN trotting her out to provide the opposite side of discussions, where there was no good faith argument to be made. These debates drove ratings, which kept the bosses happy and the journalists felt satisfied with the idea that they were being 'fair' through letting both sides be heard.

aloyisious

Jerome Powell, Fed chairman, is pushing for both parties to agree a deal which will give another federal funding boost to the economy and business on the day when the G.O.P. rejected Nancy Pelosi's latest plan to boost the economy. I don't see his call to action getting anywhere soon.

peddlelies

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If it was the Internet then why is the US media orders of magnitude more partisan than elsewhere??

Huge population, gun laws, southern border and changing demographics, big money interests driving the narratives etc.

hotmail.com

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It started with the removal of the Fairness doctrine by Reagan - That gave birth to Fox News, Limbaugh et al.

Before then all the media had to present both sides of an argument and truth mattered

This is a complete myth.

Whilst it's true the US media has deteriorated beyond belief in the last 25 years, it was always rotten and subject to corporate influences.

The bombing of Combodia by Nixon in the 1970s received hardly any media attention there.

The media remained quiet about the health and marital affairs of John Kennedy. The bad health of Roosevelt was kept quiet. The media in general were deferential to the incumbent in office.

Walter Cronkite was best friends with successive U.S. presidents despite being the voice of American media - a conflict of interest if ever there was one.

Also, lots here want to place the media's troubles in America all on the shoulders of Fox News. CNN is just as bad, as is the other mainstream media there. Sensationalist, ratings driven, focus on personalities, insular etc etc. CNN became the Trump channel about 4 years ago.

CNN infamously spent the whole of 1995 on a murder trial, a trial that had no relevance to anyone other than the people involved. There was no journalistic value in that trial. They covered it for ratings. They lost any respect they had after that circus.

Headshot

I see the target of Fauci started. Trump and his Fox cronies targeting Fauci

Fauci one of the voices of reason and clarity in a chaotic administration. I wouldn't blame him if he just quits but I think he's sense of duty to get American people will keep him going.

If he goes it would look dreadful for Trump and man it's hard to see this getting worse for Trump at this stage

Water John

Fauci won't jump, doesn't have an ego problem. Trump will sideline him, if he fires him, that wouldn't surprise me.

Joe_ Public

Surprised Fauci has lasted this long already to be honest.

aloyisious

Speaking of the media, Fox News pundits are going after Dr Fauci asking how an unelected person is leading the U.S policy on fighting the Covid-19 outbreak. With Don now going after Dr Fauci with "Dr Fauci wants to play both sides when it comes to opening schools" because Dr Fauci is being careful about what would happen to the youngest people in the U.S [along with what would happen if there was a resurge of the virus in the general population] if some-one with Covid-19 was amongst them [as just happened in the White House twice in the past few days], who [aside from the unqualified quack in the White House] gave Fox News pundits the right to set the U.S policy on how to deal with the outbreak ? What are their medical qualifications? Who are the irresponsible adults in the room?

Don is now saying that the estimated figure for future Covid-19 deaths is exaggerated after he's spent a week promoting the rising estimate in the media.

rossie1977

hotmail.com wrote: »

Also, lots here want to place the media's troubles in America all on the shoulders of Fox News. CNN is just as bad, as is the other mainstream media there. Sensationalist, ratings driven, focus on personalities, insular etc etc. CNN became the Trump channel about 4 years ago.

CNN infamously spent the whole of 1995 on a murder trial, a trial that had no relevance to anyone other than the people involved. There was no journalistic value in that trial. They covered it for ratings. They lost any respect they had after that circus.

CNN are nowhere within the same stratosphere as bad as Fox News. Fox News are entertainment posing as news. Their presenters outright either lie to cover up Trump's failings or shower him with praise for the same things they crucified his predecessor for. Not to mention they are a platform for some of the most insane conspiracy theories, most with zero merit.

CNN at least has some journalistic integrity. Yes they are obsessed with covering Trump which is their biggest flaw. However for all the talk of their supposed left wing bias I haven't seen any left wing ideologies that CNN are pushing. Certainly not health care, transportation, environment, worker rights.

And it would have been downright crazy for CNN not to cover the biggest public trial in history. Every major news outlet in the US had some representation at the OJ hearings.

aloyisious

Michael Flynn's release from a possible jail term is on hold now after the judge hearing the case has appointed another [retired] judge to examine whether Flynn committed perjury and should face charges if he did commit perjury. This seems to fly in the face of the DOJ decision to drop the case it was pursuing against Flynn, mindful that that DOJ decision should have crossed the desk of the AG, Bill Barr, for at least comment, if not approval so how it will be received by Don should be plain soon.

BonnieSituation

So, this is from today:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1260735992727769096?s=19

I'm assuming it's about Flynn and the judge's investigation?

mcmoustache

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So, this is from today:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1260735992727769096?s=19

I'm assuming it's about Flynn and the judge's investigation?

I think he just wants there to be an "Obamagate" but he doesn't know what it is yet and so he keeps mentioning it in the hopes that his friends at FOX, Sinclair, OANN and infowars will put some meat on it for him.

salmocab

I really hate the use of ‘gate’ after words to denote a scandal. It’s lost all meaning as it’s used for any little thing and watergate wasn’t about water anyway. It’s lazy journalism (I know in this case it’s not a journalist but still)

Professor Moriarty

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So, this is from today:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1260735992727769096?s=19

I'm assuming it's about Flynn and the judge's investigation?

His ego is still enraged about a leaked interview last week where Obama was quoted as saying the government's response was chaotic.

Stallingrad

Now Manafort is out of jail to serve the rest of his sentence at home (3 years), courtesy of 'Covid', despite filling none of the pandemic release criteria.

duploelabs

Stallingrad wrote: »

Now Manafort is out of jail to serve the rest of his sentence at home (3 years), courtesy of 'Covid', despite filling none of the pandemic release criteria.

Manafort kept shtum and Cohen flipped. Is it any wonder that the former got his release?

duploelabs

Stallingrad wrote: »

Now Manafort is out of jail to serve the rest of his sentence at home (3 years), courtesy of 'Covid', despite filling none of the pandemic release criteria.

Manafort kept shtum and Cohen flipped. Is it any wonder that the former got his release?